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8 Krypton

Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

  
Just bought an Optiplex 7010 Mini-Tower with Win 8 Pro 64-bit, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive and an Intel i5 3470 processor.  Right now, it has BIOS version A16.

It is normally in UEFI ON and Secure Boot ON and F12 on bootup does NOT normally show the CD-DVD as a boot option.  OK - no problem.

However, if I reboot with F12 and select both UEFI OFF (meaning Legacy ON) and Secure Boot OFF and reboot, then F12 DOES show me the CD-DVD as a boot option, but if I actually try to boot up from a bootable CD, I get an error message.

I have practiced with two bootable CDs - a Knoppix that I made on an XP machine and an Aomei Backupper that I made on a Win 7 machine.  Both these CDs work as boot-up CDs in my old XP machine, and the Aomei Backupper CD worked in someone else's Win 7 Pro 64-bit machine.

What's wrong?

Again, please let me repeat that I am trying to boot from the CD-DVD AFTER I have turned OFF UEFI, turned ON Legacy and turned OFF Secure Boot.

Thanks.

51 Replies
8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Added note:

As an experiment, I made a new Aomei Backupper CD in Aomei's UEFI mode.  I am able to boot from it and run it in the CD-DVD with the machine still in UEFI mode (but Secure Boot off).  In F12 one-time boot menu, the machine does see the CD-DVD but as a special new option under UEFI booting (different from the normal CD-DVD boot option line above in Legacy booting).  (And so I ran the very good Aomei Backupper program to make a backup of my Win 8 machine onto an external drive.)

This still leaves me with the problem that I cannot boot from the CD-DVD with UEFI off and using a non-UEFI but bootable CD

Why do I care?  I bought this machine pre-loaded with Win 8 Pro 64-bit but I was assured I had the option to "downgrade" to Win 7 Pro 64-bit, and Dell sent me a Win 7 Pro 64-bit SP1 install disk.  Well, how am I going to try that if the disk won't boot up in the CD-DVD?

Thanks.

8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Some more detail:

If I turn off UEFI and Secure Boot and then do F12 to go into the one-time boot menu and select the CD-DVD under "Legacy Boot", here's what I get: "Selected boot device failed.  Press any key to reboot the system."

If I go into BIOS and change the order of the boot devices to put USB first, then the CD-DVD second, then the hard drive third, I get "No Boot Device Found.  Press any key to reboot the machine."

Any thoughts anyone?

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8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Windows 8 has another convoluted way of booting. Open PC settings, Update and Recovery and select the option you want. 

Before you do that--make a system image on an external hard drive and recovery dvd or thumb drive to boot. You will need those to reinstall windows 8 or if the win 7 install fails.

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8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Mary G - I may try that, but I think that would take a bit of time, and I'm not free this weekend.  FYI, my PC came with a disk - "Dell Operating System - Already installed on your computer - Windows 8 Recovery Media for Windows 8 Products 64-bit".  I suppose I could try that as well (which means starting from scratch?)

HOWEVER, do you really think it will help?  I ask because this problem feels like a BIOS problem, not an OS problem.  I am trying to get the machine to boot from the CD-DVD before it starts the Win 8 OS in the hard drive.  My CDs are bootable and, when they run, they run with mini-versions of either Win 7 for the Aomei Backupper CD or (I think) Linux for the Knoppix CD.  But my PC won't boot from the CD-DVD.

Thanks.

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8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

OK - Here's another clue maybe.

Take a look at Dell's article at http://www.dell.com/support/Article/us/en/04/603195/en

It's called "How to enable boot from DVD option with UEFI boot mode enabled. (Windows 8)"

Half way down the article, Dell says:

Name it "CD/DVD/CD-RW Drive"
In the File System List field select the option with "CD" at the end.
Example: "PciRoot (0x0)/Pci (0x1F, 0x2)/Sata(0x3,0x0,0x0)/CD"

HOWEVER, my File System List has only a single entry and does NOT show me any options, and the only entry (similar to the Example) ends in HD followed by lots of numbers.

Does this mean anything in my case?  (Right now, when I do F12, the CD is shown only under "Legacy Boot" but does not boot, and only "Windows Boot Manager" shows under "UEFI Boot".  Maybe if I could get this particular trick to work, I might also see the CD under the "UEFI Boot" caption, but would it then boot off NON-UEFI bootable CDs?  Maybe this is not helpful - a detour?)

ADDED:  As to this one post - when I put the new UEFI Aomei Backupper CD into the CD-DVD and do F12, I then see under "UEFI BOOT:" a listing for the CD which says "UEFI: TSSTcorp DVD+/-RW SH-216DB".  As before, the new UEFI Aomei Backupper CD boots up.  But I still can't boot from a NON-UEFI bootable CD-DVD.  So we still have the original problem - not solved.

8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Wow - there seems to be no hope with this problem.  But other posts seem to indicate I SHOULD be able to boot a non-UEFI CD - that it should be doable.

Is it possible I should try to roll back or update the BIOS?  My current BIOS A16 is apparently a "new Win8 Released BIOS" that is substantially different from "a Pre-Win8 Released BIOS", which are apparently still available for a "downgrade".

There is also one update available, to A18, but its "Fixes and Enhancements" are limited and don't seem relevant at all.

Or should I re-do the installation of current BIOS A16?

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8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Live linux is easy from 8 gig or larger usb flash drives that are bootable.   I have had issues with some toshiba and generic flash drives.  http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/

Windoze 7 and windoze 8 will boot from iso aka usb flash based on the  Windows 7 USB/DVD Download Tool page.

Installing Windows 7 From a USB Stick .

SATA DVD drives do not work when the bios is set to SATA ATA vs AHCI. Vista/7/8/10 windows do not have this issue because they support AHCI with a built in driver.  If the bios is set to AHCI for the sata operation then CD and DVD's will boot in CSM Legacy mode.

ONLY XP needs the sata operation to be set to ATA to avoid stop 7b blue screen.  F12 booting from USB CD is perfectly fine but the CD must be installed and powered on BEFORE turning on the pc so that its ready to go when F12 is pressed with INTEL chipsets.  When you have AMD or NVIDIA Chipsets you REQUIRE F6 drivers to "See" the hard drive.  Unless you are using a PCI or PCI-E controller that is SEEN by the OS with native drivers.  Certiain VIA chipsets and Marvel controllers are native to windows WHQL.

Its not insurmountable its just a pain.  Has nothing whatsoever to do with UEFI has to do with Native SATA vs Combination or compatible mode.

DOS and WIN9X and El Torito CD's do not boot and work on UEFI CSM aka Legacy because MBR partitions are removed altogether with UEFI leaving only SATA/GPT partitions that can be secure boot or not.

You could make a Hirens Boot CD usb flash drive and then partition and format NTFS then Copy the I386 directory from the CD onto that partition and from a DOS WINDOW run C:\I386\WINNT /S:C:\I386 /T:C:\  /A    and it would install XP that way but that would require a COA key that you do not have.

If you use an external USB DVD or CD it will work.

 

 


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8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Speed, old boy - I was hoping you'd ride to the rescue.  (But did you ever see "Cat Ballou"?)

The gist of your post (and others elsewhere) is to learn how to make a bootable USB stick - which I shall try to do for the first time when I have a moment.  Although I remain concerned that the underlying problem will continue for ANY media that is not itself UEFI-derived.  Thanks also for the suggestion that I try an EXTERNAL CD-DVD (which of course would be USB-connected, not SATA.)  I don't have one but I'll see if I can borrow one.  (Dell sent me an internal CD-DVD replacement that I haven't had a chance to open, but as far as I know that's not convertible to "external", is it?)

Also, to clarify, this Dell Optiplex 7010 is a Dell-refurbished almost-new PC, and it has never had XP.  I understand Dell pre-loaded it with Win 8 Pro 64-bit, which is what I have now.  As far as I know, it has never had anything else, although I suppose it's possible it originally had Win 7 which Dell then replaced with the current Win 8.

By the way, right now in my problematic Optiplex 7010, the BIOS shows
  "System Configuration - SATA Operation - AHCI". 
In other words, AHCI is already selected, and NOT "Disabled" or "ATA".  But I am NOT able to boot in Legacy mode.  So it seems this problem has NOT been caused by an ATA selection. 

(Now that I think of it, what the hell is "Disabled"?  It says "Disabled = The SATA controllers are hidden.")

(Also - in my BIOS, there are NO references to "RAID" or "CSM" anywhere - is that normal?  There are definitely references to "Legacy", which has not helped in terms of booting off the CD-DVD.) 

And - since I started fooling around with my BIOS - now, whenever I boot my PC, the CD-DVD does make a small fast urm-urm noise during bootup, even when there's nothing there and I'm booting normally into UEFI.  To me, that suggests that at least the machine is checking to see whether the unit is plugged in.  (And from above we know that when it's a UEFI-bootable disk and I select it from the F12 one-time boot-up menu, the machine will be able to boot from it.  I am having problem only with NON-UEFI bootable disks.)

As always, many thanks.  Now that you're here, we'll make progress, although - with me in control - probably slower than anyone would like.

8 Krypton

RE: Cannot boot from CD-DVD in LEGACY mode - NOT Secure Boot NOT UEFI

Windows 8 certified UEFI 2.3.1 and up bios will ONLY ALLOW 64 bit versions of software to boot whether in CSM Legacy mode or not. Microsoft wants to control the hardware much like Apple Does on their end so that only the versions of software that they allow work on their systems.  Same with hardware, video, sound, Drivers, storage controllers, tv cards etc.  If it aint gotta $$CERTIFICATE it aint loading EVER.  This also applies to Booting.  No 32 bit anything, NO MBR, NO DOS, No nothing but Microsoft Approved. On systems I have personally tried windows 7 goes thru the 4 swirling squares and hangs.   UBUNTU  64 bit works fine after 12.04.3 but earlier versions "BRICK" the machine so that it will NEVER BOOT EVER AGAIN and must be returned to factory.

ISO files for Ubuntu 12.04.3 and up are available.

12.04.5 LTS or 14.04.1 LTS is what I would recommend.

LTS= Long Term Support. Aka 5 years.  14.04 is starting and 12.04 is ending soon.

These versions of Ubuntu can be booted LIVE in Secure boot mode or not. (They paid the extortion fee to microsoft for a certificate)

ubuntu-12.04.5-dvd-amd64.iso

ubuntu-14.04-desktop-amd64+mac.iso

http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu-iso/DVDs/ubuntu/14.04.1/release/


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