Install RAID in Dimension 8400

I believe many of your questions will be answered if you study your owner's manual, found here:  Dimension 8400 Owner's Manual.  Begin on page 20.

Installation of a RAID of any sort normally requires that you install the operating system, drivers, and applications onto a clean array, but I have heard of a trick or two if you are willing to experiment.  For example, setup of the RAID begins by installing a pair of identical hard drives,  making certain each port is set to Auto, setting the SATA controller to RAID On, and using the CTRL-i option to build the array.  Once the array exists you should be able to attach your original drive into an empty port and use a cloning tool such as Acronis to image the old drive onto the new array.  The computer treats the array as a single drive, so the only thing you should need to worry about is to use a later version of the cloning tool that will also recognize the array.  The tools with which I'm familiar have a feature that allows you to expand the original disk structure to occupy whatever space is available if you wish.  If not, Disk Management will allow you to make additional partitions once you have the installation up and running.

There should be no need to partition or format the drives.  Hard disk drives are already low-level formatted, and the sector tables and directory structure will be transferred from the original drive.  Even if you were doing this from scratch you would be performing the installation from the CD just as though you were preparing a single drive.

With regard to reaching help, I'm afraid this forum is the only help I know about.  Otherwise you need to stay close friends with Google.  Dell will not be able to help unless you are willing to subscribe to their assistance program.  Fortunately there are several forum members who have some RAID experience; just post in the section on Disk Drives.

eelkes  

You can find detailed instructions for installing RAID on pages 21 to 29 in your Dimension 8400 owner's manual.

The procedure for a manual reinstall of XP, are HERE

<ADMIN NOTE: Broken link has been removed from this post by Dell>

Note the order of installing the drivers.

You need to prepare a floppy with the IAA RAID Edition driver on it and pause the install at F6, to install the driver, an internal Floppy Drive is needed for this.

The IAA RAID Edition driver, is  HERE 

The XP reinstallation disc does not have drivers, you should have a Dell Drivers and Utilities Disc with the drivers, that need to be loaded after installing XP.

Guide for installing an additional SATA hard drive in the D-8400.

An SATA data cable is required for the additional drive, there should be a spare power connector, inside the case.

Connect the data cable to SATA 1 on the motherboard, then enter the setup and check that the drive is set to "Auto" [Enabled].

 How to install a second SATA hard drive

 Motherboard layout

Dimension 8400 System Setup

  "If I have difficulty mid-installation, what is the fastest way to reach knowledgeable support personnel?"

You can either post on the forum for help that is free, or contact paid Dell's Software Support, your choice.

Bev.

Just a couple of comments on the SATA drivers:  Since most machines delivered in that era were not equipped with diskette drives, Dell usually supplied an installation CD that had the SATA drivers slipstreamed into it.  If you don't have a CD with the drivers you will need to build the diskette using the driver file specified in previous posts.

With regard to the diskette drive; the 8400 has a standard diskette interface, but it also has the capability of using a USB diskette drive as drive A.

1.  Install and enable both drives.  Power on and go into the RAID BIOS (usually CTRL-I at bootup) and set up a RAID 1 array.

2.  No, but you'll need to have the SATA installation driver on a floppy diskette ready to go - press F6 when indicated, insert the diskette and load the driver.

The driver you'll need is here:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&ProdId=1786&DwnldID=15450&lang=eng

3.  no.

4.  Not without the floppy mode driver, no.

5.  You must install all the drivers for network, audio, video, etc. after installing Windows.

6.  Since the system is out of warranty, you can contact your local computer shop if you need help - one way or the other, if you need personalized support, it won't be free of charge.

I thank you all for your advice, and having followed it, still have run into a snag.

I installed the two Seagate Barracuda 1T SATA drives.

I enabled RAID in the BIOS, enabled the two SATA drives (had to enable them as Drive-0 and Drive-2 for the computer to recognize both) and rebooted.

Got the CTRL-I prompt and created the RAID1 array with no glitches - both drives recognized to the full capacity and the array is bootable.

Rebooted.  System ignored the F6 I pressed and continued. 

Setup started loading drivers and finally declared that it did not find any hard drives on the machine and couldn't continue.  F3 to quit.

Deleted the RAID and re-created the RAID, figuring it was something I might have missed.  Repeated the whole process, including the F6 not getting any response from the machine, but then I got a screen that gave me the opportunity to press 'S' and install a third party SCSI or other driver.  I pressed S, the machine read the floppy drive I had created with the SATA drivers that you had recommended I download, I chose the INTEL 82801 HR/HH/HO SATA RAID Controller (Desktop ICH8R) and those files were loaded.

Windows XP Setup gave me the final warning that it was going to load the operating system, and declared that it did not find any hard drives installed on my computer.

So, what am I missing?

Thanks, in advance.

Ed

Which download did you use, the Intel site from ejn's post, or the link from shesagordie?  The thing that I'm wondering about is that you say you are choosing a driver for the ICH8R, while the download for the Dimension 8400 is an ICH6R.  Try this one instead:  Dimension 8400 RAID Driver.<ADMIN NOTE: Broken link has been removed / replaced from this post by Dell>

I used the link from ejn's post.

I downloaded and used your link and chose INTEL 82801FR SATA RAID Controller (Desktop ICH6R). Voila! the system recognized the drives and Windows XP Pro started to install from the Dell Reinstallation CD.  I thought I was home free and started writing a nice Thank You letter to you all.  Before I was half-way through, I found that all was not well. 

Received an SHMGRATE.EXE error during setup, which turned into a BSoD with the message that memory referenced could not be read.  Shut down.  Looked up that error on the Internet and it referenced a Trojan.  I couldn't believe that a Trojan came on Dell's CD, so I just decided to try again.

Another BSoD, this time IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL.

Restarted this process several times, cleaned off the CD, reset the RAM, rechecked all the HD cables, re-seated the video card, hoping something would clear up.  Gave up after 9 incomplete attempts.  I got as close as 4 minutes remaining for the XP installation when I got a quick error (too quick to copy down completely) that a file was corrupt and unreadable, the BSoD and IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL message.

Gave up for the night and started fresh today.  Started machine and Chkdsk came on, ran some tests and BSoD fatal system error.

Rebooted, Chkdsk corrected some errors, and then the system actually let me log in as Administrator, and I checked the system with Windows Explorer and played Freecell make sure the system stayed on.  Shut down, re-started, logged in, then BSoD - IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL.

Microsoft's website indicates that this is typically a device driver issue.  As far as I can tell, I've only installed the one for the RAID, and the rest were loaded off the installation CD.

Any suggestions?

Thanks, again.

Ed

I am assuming that you followed all the basics; I see that you've made sure the CD is clean, that you have re-seated the cables, and that nothing is connected to the tower other than keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  You made one comment that confused me - you reset the RAM.  Does that mean you reset the NVRAM (CMOS), or that you re-seated the RAM modules?  Whichever you didn't do you might want to try it.

Your description, however, makes me think that your optical drive is generating errors.  If you have a CD ROM drive you might wish to connect that to the master connector on your IDE controller as I've seen some combo DVD/CD drives that had trouble making up their minds on what they were reading.  Also, I would have only the optical drive you are using for the installation connected to the controller as the slave drive can occasionally mess up communications between the controller and the master drive.

I agree with you on the installation CD provided it was generated directly from Microsoft.  If the installation CD is one that was generated locally due to the need to slipstream something in, its integrity may be questionable.

I did clean the CD, reseated the cables, and removed and reset the RAM modules.  I did not reset the CMOS - are you referring to the "Load Defaults" in the Maintenance section of the BIOS menu, or a hardware reset?  If it's hardware, I'll have to figure out where that gets done.

The CD/DVD-ROM is the first one on the cable and that's the only one the machine will recognize for booting.  The CD/DVD-R drive is the second one and I can disconnect/disable that one and try without it.  I don't have a spare IDE CD-ROM to replace the existing one. 

If all else fails, I will delete the RAID and try to restore the system as a single drive system.  If that works, I will load the driver that will clone the second drive and see if that works.  Will the same driver diskette that I used (ICH6R) be used for that procedure?

BTW, Microsoft's site suggested turning off:

• All caching, including L2, BIOS, internal/external, and writeback caching on disk controllers
• All shadowing

• Are there any user accessible controls for caching or shadowing on the 8400? 

  Thanks, again.

  Ed

   

Clearing the NVRAM is essentially the same as loading defaults.  I generally do that by removing the back-up cell on the motherboard for about five minutes, but using the jumper to reset the default configuration should amount to the same thing.

In your situation the first thing I would try is removing the slave drive from the data cable.  If that didn't improve things I would move the master connector to the second drive and try that one.

Your approach of trying this without the RAID may at least serve to confirm that the CD drives are not the problem.  Any setting in system setup other than RAID Autodetect/ATA will require loading of the ICH6R driver at the F6 prompt.  Only RAID Autodetect/ATA will allow the use of IDE drivers native to the Windows XP CD.  If you decide to reset the NVRAM to its defaults don't forget to go back and check the system setup; I don't know what the default setting is, and if it is other than the IDE compatible mode you will need the ICH6R drivers.

The only setting involving caches that I recall being available on some Dell machines is "compatible" mode in the CPU settings.  This, I think, turns off the L2 cache, but it also slows the processor to a crawl.  I don't believe that would be practical even if the D8400 BIOS provides that option.  As for shadowing and write-back caching, I haven't yet seen a Dell that allowed this sort of control.  Shadowing was normally used on the old DOS based machines as the RAM was faster than the CMOS that stored the BIOS routines.  Windows doesn't use the BIOS for disk access, so I don't believe you will even find that capability in the computer.

Well, some success.  I reset the BIOS to the defaults Maintenance Menu (didn't pull the battery), removed and disabled the second CD/DVD drive, removed the RAM upgrade and left the original 512M, unplugged all USB devices (except keyboard and mouse), rebooted and ultimately ended up at a BSoD.

Borrowed a Dell Windows Reinstallation disc with SP2, one newer than the one that came with my PC, to verify that my disc might/might not be defective.

Installed an 80 GB drive and started again.  This drive is from a similar vintage Dell machine and I ran the full diagnostics from the Utility Partition.  Machine checked out fine.  Started the whole Windows XP setup process again and ended up at the all-to-familiar BSoD.

Changed the Drives BIOS setting to RAID/Autodetect/ATA and started the whole process again.  I finally succeeded in the completing the installation of Windows XP Pro.  I am running it for a day or so to make sure it's stable.  I'll load the NIC driver and see about continued stability.

Now, since I have found the winning combination, I am left with a few of questions (isn't that always the case?).  I returned the 1TB drives, since Chkdsk kept trying to repair them, deducing that they might be defective (otherwise chkdsk would not be trying to work so hard). 

  1)  When I get the replacement 1TB drives, which I originally intended to install as a RAID, should I install 1 and then clone the second, or re-attempt an installation of Windows on both simultaneously?

  2)  Will I have to keep the BIOS set to "RAID Autodetect/ATA" from now on, or change it to "RAID On" to manage the mirroring?

  3)  Considering the size of the replacement drives, will I have to install the ICH6R drivers again, or do Windows XP SP2 and SP3 eliminate the need for those?

  4)  Is there an order I should consider, after getting the drives loaded and possibly get the backup installed, for reintroducing the RAM, USB peripherals, CD/DVD2, etc.?

Getting closer to getting back to normal.  I appreciate your help.

Thanks, again.

Ed

1.  Given the problems you've had so far, I can't see that it makes a lot of difference.  The author of at least one post I've read states that he likes to begin with the SATA controller in the RAID Autodetect/ATA mode, then switch to the RAID drivers and switch the controller to RAID On.  See this:  "Switching to AHCI from IDE Compatibility".

2.  Yes, you will need the ICH6R drivers.  The Intel Matrix Storage Manager will not install if it doesn't see an AHCI controller, and you can't use that mode unless you have the ICH6R drivers.

3.  The only Windows XP CDs that contain the ICH6R drivers slipstreamed into them are those that were shipped with the computers ordered with RAID.  A generic Windows XP CD should not have these drivers as Microsoft stopped making Windows XP CDs long before service pack 3 was released.  Windows XP CDs that have service pack 3 are generated by the OEMs, not Microsoft.  The answer is therefore yes, you will need the ICH6R drivers.  However, remember the process I mentioned in the answer to the first question.  It is possible to start out in IDE compatible mode and switch over to ICH6R drivers after you install Windows.

4.  I would begin with the internal devices when you start re-assembling.  Install the RAM and optical drives first and make sure all is well before introducing USB devices.