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SB 24-Live! on Dimension 8400 with Win7
I loaded Win 7 on my Dimension 8400 because Windows XP is old and tired and now limited (but wasn't it wonderful in 2002?) and Vista was problematic from the get-go. I realize that my desktop is at the end of its product life cycle. It cost a lot of money in 2005 and I got it with student/professional discounts. It was nearly a $3000 system that I got for just under $1600. That's still a lot of money and for the most part, I guess I've gotten my money's worth. The motherboard is proprietary with a Pentium IV HT. There is no upgrading that. I've already checked. This is it. I won't be able to run Win 8 with that processor. I like Win 7 but it has been a real issue getting all the right drivers. As far as Dell is concerned, this desktop died and went to heaven in 2008. I've upgraded the hard drive several times (there are now 2), I've upgraded the video card and other upgrades. I have never upgraded the sound card because up until now it hasn't been an issue. Sound has been great!
But as impressed as I am with Win 7, I'm thinking it's too much for my Dimension 8400. When I play music, it interrupts when I surf or open the email app. The processor runs at near 100% when I play, say, a web page's live radio feed. When I try to do anything else, the music stutters. I've uninstalled/reinstalled the driver several times. I've disabled the drivers for Nvidia's HD audio that comes with the graphics card as well as disabling Soundmax digital audio's driver for fear there's a conflict. I've disabled all the audio enhancements like CMSS-3D and EAX. I've ended unnecessary processes to free up some processor power - and still it skips and stutters at times. It's maddening.
I've been told, when I've gone community before, that it's a driver issue. All I can say is that I'm using the Win7 driver for this sound card downloaded from Creative's site. I probably should add that I block one of Creative's auto updates because when it installs, things get even worse. I've toyed with the idea of a newer sound card, but frankly, I sure don't want to blow dough on something that going to have the same issue. As I've said, the sound's fine until I want to do something else. When I surf or open some apps, the sound is interrupted. That sounds like processor limitation to me. This will probably be my last desktop.
Would appreciate input, if you have any. Is there any repair here?
DELL-Sujatha K
3.3K Posts
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October 16th, 2012 20:00
Hi Bauhuas,
Since you have mentioned processor is at 100% usage even while using basic application, I suspect system is not able to handle the load of windows 7.
I suggest that you click on the link given below to optimize the performance of the system:
http://support.microsoft.com/mats/slow_windows_performance/
Click on ‘Run Now’ and follow on line instruction which will automatically fix the windows issue. As the system is working fine or even audio is fine when played alone indicates that the hardware components of the system are fine.
In case of same issue, even after running the ‘MS Fixit’ program, as you have already mentioned, I suspect the processor is at its maximum usage. This is causing the audio to stutter while using other programs.
Thanks and Regards,
Sujatha K
#iworkfordell
2-J
84 Posts
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October 18th, 2012 10:00
This is a bit of a side issue but just to you are not correct you when you say the Dell Dimension 8400 can't handle Windows 8 - maybe with your current processor it can't, but there are processors you can use which can run Windows 8. You basically need a Pentium 4 with 'NX bit'. Plenty of Pentium 4s compatible with the Dimension 8400 can handle it. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_microprocessors , though not all are compatible with Dimension 8400 )
I have a Pentium 4 670 in my Dimension 8400, and I'm looking forward to upgrading to Windows 8 in the next year or so.
Bauhuas
8 Posts
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October 18th, 2012 12:00
2_J: My story is specific only to me. I toyed with the idea of upgrading my processor from a Pentium IV HT about a year or two ago. I called Dell to see if I could do it and they said that I couldn't. The motherboard is proprietary and I am stuck with that processor. Microsoft told me that I couldn't run Windows 8 when I went to its Windows 8 site for a compatibility scan. It said "Your processor is not compatible with Windows 8."
I didn't feel I was in a position to argue with them. But if you are correct, then Dell and Microsoft are wrong - not I. Glad you are having success.
2-J
84 Posts
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October 18th, 2012 16:00
Well, just to let you know you can definitely do it! Dell gave you bad advice when they said you can't upgrade the processor. The Microsoft scan was probably right, because your current processor might not be able to handle it. But you can definitely upgrade the processor. It doesn't matter one bit that the motherboard is proprietary (if you have a Dell Dimension 8400, you can upgrade your processor to one that will work). If you want Windows 8 on there, you can do it.
If you want my recommendation on a processor, go with one of these Pentium 4s: 620, 630, 640, 640, 660, 662, 670, or 672. 670 and 672 are the best. Anyway you should probably be able to find one or other of those going cheap on ebay.
RoHe
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43.4K Posts
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October 18th, 2012 19:00
I have essentially the same system except I still use XP. :emotion-5:
As suggested, it sounds (no pun intended) that there's something wrong other than the sound card itself.
Have you scanned thoroughly for malware recently?
Is something running in the background? Open Task Manager when it starts to stutter, look in Task Manager window to see if something is hogging CPU time. You might want to run Process Explorer instead (free from Microsoft) because it's better than Task Manager at showing what's running and using CPU cycles. If you use PE, look for Delayed Procedure Calls (DPC) as a possible culprit. Task Manager doesn't show DPC activity.
If you see DPC more than ~3-5% of CPU time, that's likely the cause for the audio stutter. And in that case, I'd suspect either a bum VIDEO driver or a failing video card. (Yes, I really did mean video). The SB Live 24-bit has issues with high DPCs and the video card is the most likely cause for those. Maybe I missed it but what video card do you have? There are issues with versions of AMD Catalyst drivers newer than 12.6 that are causing stutter and video issues on XPS 8500 systems so that's somewhere to look.
Also, it appears that the paid Carbonite cloud backup software is causing stutter and noise issues on some systems too. If you use Carbonite, try disabling it for a while and see if that fixes your problem.
Run msconfig and go to Startup tab, Turn off all the junk that loads automatically at every boot. You don't need things like Adobe Reader, jsched, Windows indexing service, iTunes, Real (player) or any of that other stuff to load when you boot. They will still start when you want them, but otherwise they're resource hogs. Just don't uncheck anything related to your anti-malware suite, firewall, mouse or monitor. If you're uncertain about an item, google it.
Reboot when you've disabled the junk and put check in "don't show this again" box that appears when you reboot.
Might also be good to run a memory check like free memtest 86+ to make sure your RAM is all working properly.
Bauhuas
8 Posts
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October 19th, 2012 11:00
My video card is a(n) NVIDIA GeForce GT 220. I've shut down all unnecessary apps on start-up. Hardware interrupts and DPC run between 5-10%.
Malware was my first consideration and I think I'm now malware free. I've run Malwarebytes, MSE, and Avast! separately, of course.
Thanks for the help! Very interesting about the video card. That was another upgrade I failed to mention.
RoHe
10 Elder
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43.4K Posts
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October 19th, 2012 13:00
Those high DPCs may be part of the problem. What happens if you boot in Safe Mode? Does it still stutter on the audio?
You may need to figure out where they're coming from...
speedstep
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47K Posts
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October 19th, 2012 13:00
PCI Bandwidth can be part of the issue but your Video card could be the other part. The GT220 is not what I would consider to be a good card. A radeon HD7750 has a lot more bandwidth. I would then try a USB 2.0 pci card and using a USB audio solution like the Turtle Beach AmigoII.
Both the USB2 card and the AMIGO use native windows drivers so there are no driver disks to get ever.
Another option would be to use the codec on the video card via HDMI AND HDMI Monitor/TV with speakers this would mean no pci audio at all freeing up bandwidth.
IOGEAR PCI to 5 Ports USB2.0 Card Model GIC251U
Radeon HD 7750 GDDR5 12800 Mpixels/sec
GeForce GT 220 GDDR3 5000 Mpixels/sec
Bauhuas
8 Posts
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October 19th, 2012 16:00
Funny you should say so because after I made the GT220 purchase, I didn't notice all that much improvement over what I had on board when I purchased this machine. It was a Dell suggestion for upgrade, by the way. And I appreciate all the suggestions! I'm not sure I want to sink a whole lot of money into a new card though (and I notice not all your suggestions are pricey). It's just that I know this machine is nearing the end of its usefulness, so I'm not sure I want to invest in something only to create more issues. I'd rather try to solve all the system interrupts and dpcs some other way if possible. Again, thanks for your time!
And btw, even with the non-optimal video card, everything was fine until I installed Win 7.
RoHe
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43.4K Posts
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October 19th, 2012 18:00
Did you test what happens in Safe Mode? If that's ok, some software that loads at normal startup is causing the problem.
In that case, see if nVidia has an updated driver for this video card on their site and download it to your desktop. Uninstall the old driver in Device Manager and reboot. Don't install the new driver "on top" of the old one.
If the wizard finds new hardware when you reboot, cancel it and follow nVidia's instructions to install the new driver. Reboot when it's installed and see what happens now.
Bauhuas
8 Posts
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October 20th, 2012 00:00
I get no sound at all in safe mode. Win 7 doesn't load the sound card driver. Only the SoundMax Integrated Digital Audio is available and I have that disabled.
RoHe
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43.4K Posts
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October 20th, 2012 17:00
Surprised Windows doesn't load a generic audio driver in Safe Mode.
Either way, do you still see high DPC's in Safe Mode? If not, something loading at normal startup may be responsible and that suggests it's not hardware. I'd start with video card drivers...
PPPnpo
3 Posts
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October 24th, 2012 19:00
I have 2 of those 8400 systems I keep around for the kids. Have you considered going back to XP? I run XP on mine and have no problems. Just cause it is old doesn't make it useless. Anyway did I miss how much RAM you're running? I have 2 gigs in each of my machines.
Bauhuas
8 Posts
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October 27th, 2012 09:00
I have indeed considered going back to XP, PPPnpo, because leaving it behind was when all the troubles (challenges) started. I purchased a Dell laptop in 2008 that came with Vista Home Premium and I saw no need to upgrade my desktop with Vista after experiencing it, but 7 was different. Lots of new bells and whistles. Some good, some bad. Additionally, I wanted to keep my OS acumen current for some odd reason. Techie macho maybe? BTW, my large healthcare provider which could afford, I'm thinking, the newest and best, still runs XP because they don't, again I presume, want to go out and buy newer, more powerful Dells to replace the smaller workhorses they have now. Works great for them!
Reverting back to XP from 7 isn't as easy as going back from Vista. It's certainly possible, but it'd be a weekend project. You have to clean install and re-install everything. A pain almost as insufferable as trying to cope with 7 on this Dimension. And as much as I get frustrated with its ability to all of a sudden change ownership of files and folders seemingly at will, I do think it's more fun.
But thanks for the input and advice! I'll probably just wind up using the Dimension as my 5.1 system for internet radio and .mp3s. And I have loaded 4 gigs of RAM on this machine but since I'm running (and am limited to) 32-bit Win 7 due to the Pentium IV HT, Windows only recognizes 3 gigs of it. You have to have 64-bit compatibility in order for more than 3 gigs to be recognized by Windows and the processor isn't 64-bit compatible.
RoHe
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43.4K Posts
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October 27th, 2012 13:00
I'd be very wary of those 3th party scan sites. Some of them install malware under the guise of scanning your PC. One even shows their icon on the page, but is a known malware site.
You could uninstall the Conexant modem in device manager and then remove the card if you're not using it.
Look for an updated chipset driver from Intel.