Mabro1
3 Zinc

What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

DiscussingWhat the Books don't tell you about moving from one platform to another (CLARiiON, VNX, Symmetrix) with Allen Ward and dynamox

Welcome to this EMC Support Community Ask the Expert conversation. This discussion is primarily for Storage Admins who are familiar with one of EMC's storage platforms and now may be struggling with applying (or translating) that knowledge to a new platform. It's not always pure common sense.

https://community.emc.com/docs/profile-image-display.jspa?imageID=2635&size=165 Allen Ward has been with the IT department of a large financial services organization for over 14 years now and dedicated to Storage technologies for the last 11+ years. He started out with CLARiiON FC4700s and has worked his way through the CLARiiON line and on to his company's  newest VNX7500s with all the bells and whistles. Part way through that period he picked up support for a Symmetrix 8830 and then implemented some new DMX3 arrays into the enterprise. In the last couple of years Allen's Company put in their first VMAX arrays as well. Allen has been heavily involved in the EMC Community Network and EMC Support Forums for several years and holds EMC Proven Professional Expert certifications in both CLARiiON and Symmetrix technologies.

https://community.emc.com/docs/profile-image-display.jspa?imageID=2681&size=350Dynamox works for a private research university. In his role as storage administrator he supports nine academic divisions and one non-profit hospital. He's been in the storage industry since 1999 when he first started with Dell PowerVault storage arrays.  Currently he supports multiple storage platforms from EMC: Clariion, VNX,  Symmetrix (DMX/VMAX), Celerra and Isilon.  He is a frequent support forum contributor, and a Support Forum MVP who enjoys helping and learning from his peers in the EMC Support Community Forums.

This event begins on May 7th, 2012, and the discussion will be opened then for questions .Allen & Synamox will then be taking your questions then until May 18th. Plus an exclusive for the Support Community, Allen will be wrapping this discussion live from Vegas @ EMC World!

Watch this space for further details

28 Replies
RFritz11
3 Silver

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Hi Everyone,

This discussion is now open for you to post your questions, comments, and replies!

Thanks so much for joining in the discussion!

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Allen_Ward
4 Germanium

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Good morning everyone, and welcome to what I've been told a few times already is a "slightly different" kind of Ask the Expert discussion. For starters, this one spans technology platforms (CLARiiON, VNX, Symmetrix) where so far these discussions have been focused on one technology. That is kind of the point of this though.

Just as some background, my own experience prior to implementing the DMX3s in our enterprise was almost entirely CLARiiON. Suddenly we had a new platform with new methods of management to learn and while some of the concepts were totally different, some of them were close enough to be confusing. I would have loved to be able to take a course called "Beginner Symmetrix Concepts for CLARiiON Experts", but nothing like that existed. Fortunately I found help here on the Support Forums and did A LOT of reading (not to mention some trial and error testing).

In remembrance of those painful days, this discussion will focus on what you may need to know moving from one platform to another (in either direction)... whether you already have that shiny new array on the floor and are still trying to figure out what to do with it or you are still considering if it is the right choice to fit in your support capabilities.

Dynamox and I are here to field your questions and hopefully ease your pain a bit in the transition.

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zj2
1 Copper

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Hello

So far, I knew about moving data from one platform to another is we can use OR to do it. Will you please make a brief discription about the difference among OR OM and SRDF in data moving?

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Allen_Ward
4 Germanium

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Good morning zj and thank you for your question. I hate to say this with the first question to come up, but you've caught me a bit off guard. When we were planning this discussion we weren't really thinking of it in terms of migrating from one platform to another, but more how do you deal with a new platform in addition to the one you have (and are keeping).

That being said, most of my migration experience is within a given family. I have used SANCopy and host based migrations to go from CLARiiON to CLARiiON and CLARiiON to VNX. I've used SRDF and Host based migrations to go from Symm to Symm. We have done some limited migration from CLARiiON to Symm (and vice versa) but those were Unix hosts. Our Unix support team much prefers to do host based migrations when possible.

Some of the option out there that I have not personally used are Open Replicator & Open Migrator as you mentioned, as well as PowerPath's built in migration capabilities.

Dynamox may have more experience with these, so we'll see if he has anything to add. If not, we'll get Mark to redirect this question to someone else who may be able to provide more technical direction on data migration.

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zhouzengchao
3 Cadmium

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Hi experts,

I would like to know the biggest or essential design change from CLARiiON to VNX, from the perspective like performance, availability, scalability and flexibility. Looks like a big question...

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hotcap
1 Nickel

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Hello experts,

i have a question regarding the VMAX implementation. as i saw you both used to work on DMX & VMAX. My question is, when you plan the disk capacity, FA & DA design according to the front-end application( RDBMS, OS, VM host) during upgrading DMX to VMAX. is there any difference? as i know the performanc(CPU, memory) and new fearture (VP, FAST) is new in VMAX. will it be considered in your VMAX implementation?

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RRR
5 Tungsten

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Allen, you mentioned a course "Beginner Symmetrix Concepts for CLARiiON Experts" and I had to laugh about that. In a man's career this course should be a great on: moving up from midrange to enterprise .

But if your company decides to implement a DMX / VMAX while you're still running CX or VNX should have been discussed with you before they actually installed the big box in your DC, right ? So when the big box arrived, that shouldn't be a big surprise anyway, right ? I'd be thrilled when my employer would decide to upgrade from midrange to enterprise and I'd read a lot about the new "toys" and it's capabilities

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RRR
5 Tungsten

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

the Host based migration is always easy from a storage perspective since we don't need to do anything, other than supply new LUNs to the already existing hosts. The host does all the work with either host based mirroring, storage vmotion, robocopy, PowerPath/ME you name it.

Migrating from midrange to enterprise (or vice versa) on the storage platform itself is a different game. Open Replicator or SANCopy are great tools, but you'd have to remind that a host will probably need a reboot to make sure when all data is now on the new array, that the host is totally independant from the old array. And don't forget boot disks. If you're booting from SAN you also need to change HBA settings, since the boot LUN is now a new LUN on a new array!

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Allen_Ward
4 Germanium

Re: EMC Ask the EXpert Discussion: What the books DON’T tell you about moving from one platform to another

Hi 阿超 (I wasn't sure if I could actually cut and paste that, but I knew my keyboard wasn't going to let me type it)

That is definitely a loaded question, and there are a couple of different ways you could look at it. From an engineering and technology perspective I think the biggest changes are to the backend of the array with a shift away from FC drives to SAS and NL-SAS as the workhorse drive technologies. In the end this doesn't really make a huge difference to the end user though. From a customer/end-user perspective I suppose the shift from non-integrated block and file architectures to a much more integrated/unified design is a huge shift, but won't actually impact all customers. You can still use a VNX as a block only array and it really isn't going to be much different from using a CLARiiON.

In the end I have to say that for most users there isn't really a game-changing, life-altering difference between CLARiiON and VNX. I don't mean that as a slight to the engineers that bring us this wonderful new technology, but this is answering the questions from a purely practical average end user's perspective.

If you are moving up from an older model CLARiiON then you can gain functionality like Virtual Provisioning and FAST VP as well as FAST Cache capabilities and a some other bells and whistles, but really, if it were not for the hardware backend changes this would almost qualify as a "CX5" rather than a new product line. That's just my take on it though.

To keep that answer in perspective I will say that if you were asking me the different between a Honda Civic and a Porsche, I would tell you that for the average driver on average city roads with no special requirements, there isn't a whole lot of practical difference. That doesn't mean the Porsche isn't worth the extra money and can handle things that the Civic can't, but that really doesn't affect the average end user.