Julien_Fontaine
4 Beryllium

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

Really interesting question and answer about security !

Alvaro de Andres did you get all the expected answers ?

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aldago-zF7Lc
4 Beryllium

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

Julien Fontaine wrote:

Really interesting question and answer about security !

Alvaro de Andres did you get all the expected answers ?

Yep, thanks

About the documentation: (I think maybe this should be posted in the documentation poll too...)

From my experience, Documentum documentation is one of the best out there. It's sad, but it's true (if you think otherwise try nuxeo, alfresco, liferay or opentext...), you could always find "weird" things (how many 6.x bpm versions "survived" the James section in the documentation after being removed in 6.0?), but usually documentation is pretty good in comparison with the competition (but there's a lot of room for improvement ).

About the wiki: I don't see it happening. I have a detailed step-by-step guide on how to setup certificate-based ssl. I could update that wiki with the information. I could also be fired for posting that "internal" documentation , meaning that "we" know how to do something that not many people has done, if EMC doesn't share with us why should we share with them, etc. IMHO, wikis usually don't work in the opensource world (what I said in the preivous post, ie: nuxeo simply changes the version number from the wiki and that's all...) and I'm sure won't work here (that feeling of paying for something, then "fixing" it, then documenting it... no, I don't see it happening )

What I think it should be done (at least) is

  • Mark the status of the whitepapers. I don't think whoever did the SSL WP was wrong, it probably worked that way when that wp was done, but it is clearly obsolete/wrong/misleading/missing information now (missing parameters in certificate generation, where's the cipherlist parameter?, where's the jms configuration?, wdk apps? xPlore? xCP stack?). Mark it obsolete, or for reference only, or advise it could not be up-to-date, I don't know, but do something!
  • Pay attention to things like the ssl configuration we're talking about, if this is a new and "strongly recommended" feature, be sure that's is clearly explained, otherwise it'll look quite bad to the customers. There are settings or configurations that are not commonly used and most people won't even notice (ever), but things like the ssl setup or this one: D2 causing ClassCastException in Logger class in JMS, which you won't find in the D2 install guide, really hurt the credibility of the documentation

you can download IIG's financial results and find out how much IIG earns due to the lack of documentation  Wiki is able to relieve your routine work, but nothing more

I though IIG employees had access to more detailed/additional documentation in their IRM site (as a competitive advantage with partners). I was wrong.

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PanfilovAB
4 Beryllium

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

About the documentation: (I think maybe this should be posted in the documentation poll too...)

From my experience, Documentum documentation is one of the best out there. It's sad, but it's true (if you think otherwise try nuxeo, alfresco, liferay or opentext...), you could always find "weird" things (how many 6.x bpm versions "survived" the James section in the documentation after being removed in 6.0?), but usually documentation is pretty good in comparison with the competition

You're trying to compare incomparable products. Try to compare powerlink with MSDN or with IBM portal (here I should also note that last two are completely free), or try to compare xCP documentation with IBM ICN RedBook: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpieces/pdfs/sg248055.pdf, or try to find something really useful about security in EMC documentation (for example try to find any information about application tokens, something like described here)

you can download IIG's financial results and find out how much IIG earns due to the lack of documentation  Wiki is able to relieve your routine work, but nothing more

I though IIG employees had access to more detailed/additional documentation in their IRM site (as a competitive advantage with partners). I was wrong.

I think either you didn't understand my point, or I yours. My point is: if there was good documentation who would pay for extra services?

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aldago-zF7Lc
4 Beryllium

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

PanfilovAB wrote:

you can download IIG's financial results and find out how much IIG earns due to the lack of documentation  Wiki is able to relieve your routine work, but nothing more

I though IIG employees had access to more detailed/additional documentation in their IRM site (as a competitive advantage with partners). I was wrong.

I think either you didn't understand my point, or I yours. My point is: if there was good documentation who would pay for extra services?

My point was that I've always considered the possibility that EMC wasn't releasing as much documentation as they could, so they can sell you both the product and "better" support than other companies (2x business), as I've seen before this argument when bidding with/against EMC, but I was wrong, as they have access to the same docs we do.

If there was good documentation... most likely goverments/public sector would pay support/extra services (either EMC or partners or freelancers) just to have someone else to blame if something goes wrong (I know customers that question why they pay support, and customers that don't pay support anymore because they find support useless ) but I think that's a different discussion out of the topic of this thread.

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PanfilovAB
4 Beryllium

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

but I was wrong, as they have access to the same docs we do.

Why do you think so? I had already posted some stuff about privileged roles and agentexec, can also post internal note about how EMC was trying to make BPM faster without any success

BTW, I think that if we had Wiki, its quality would be the same as Documentum Support Forum with the next most popular suggestions:

  1. restart everything
  2. clear caches
  3. reinstall

That's not quite true... if we had adequate documentation or at least they could help us a little bit to understand how this thing could work on the new version, they would have avoided the loss from the extra license

If you had documentation that BPS is unusable, has very limited functionality and it functionality could be replaced in 2 working days would you pay for additional software?

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PanosK1
3 Argentum

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

PanfilovAB wrote:

If you had documentation that BPS is unusable, has very limited functionality and it functionality could be replaced in 2 working days would you pay for additional software?

Of course, if that was going to spare our time for extra deployment of an EAR file every time. Process Integrator is set up once and can be updated easily through DAR installation that we are already preparing for the Webtop client. If you accumulate all the extra effort required for all the involved teams, it might be equivalent.

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fainemr
4 Beryllium

Re: Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

If there was good documentation... most likely goverments/public sector would pay support/extra services (either EMC or partners or freelancers) just to have someone else to blame if something goes wrong (I know customers that question why they pay support, and customers that don't pay support anymore because they find support useless ) but I think that's a different discussion out of the topic of this thread.

Alvaro de Andres, my personal experiences can attest to this.  It is more about CYA.  No one wants to be the last line of support when things go bad.  I can usually fix just about any problem I've had, with few exceptions, before I even get to a support representative that even completely understands the issue.  In those cases where I do need to work with support, they usually just do the same things I've done, but at some point they pull out some undocumented information that, had I had, I would not have wasted several days on the phone talking to them.  This was why I wanted a wiki, the first person to discover this information could then update the wiki to indicate that if you have problem X then use solution Y, noting that it is a verified solution that was used to resolve their specific SR.

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PanosK1
3 Argentum

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

PanfilovAB wrote:


I think either you didn't understand my point, or I yours. My point is: if there was good documentation who would pay for extra services?

That's not quite true. There is also the other way around. I remember asking support for how we could make Process Integrator work on 6.6. We were migrating from 5.3 and it had undergo major changes. The documentation was awful and non-existent. We got a reply from support that we need additional services. The result was to decide to drop Process Integrator and do our own JMS implementation.

So, in our example, if we had adequate documentation or at least they could help us a little bit to understand how this thing could work on the new version, they would have avoided the loss from the extra license

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Imran_Yusubov
4 Beryllium

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

I had been configuring two way SSL with taskspace. The useless WDK documentation had 10 errors in 2 pages. Then I opened an SR, spent 3 weeks with writing. Finally, it was found out that WDK does not support it. Why don't you write it from the beginning?

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PanfilovAB
4 Beryllium

Re: Ask the Expert: What's New in EMC Documentum 7.1?

Finally, it was found out that WDK does not support it.

Actually, that's not true. I bet you are talking about these two posts: WDK documentation makes me cry and UCF ssl error. I have taken a look at document(s) you was referring,  and would like to say following:

  1. When customer wants two implement two factor ssl authentication, he assumes that end-users will have special removable storage (i.e. token) for ssl certificates, and a try to store ssl certificates somewhere outside security token will completely screw up the whole idea of using two factor ssl authentication.
  2. UCF applet does support JKS storage only, so, the person, who wrote documentation you was referring, didn't understand security principles
  3. It's possible to implement what you want by making some UCF-related urls "insecure".