Inspiron

Last reply by 11-28-2022 Solved
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Inspiron 14 Plus 7420 Intel I7-12700H, Thermal and PowerThrottling Issues + TGP & TDP?

Inspiron 14 Plus 7420

Dear Community,

I need further assistance and maybe other users with similar issues and problems giving me some advice and maybe tweakability options (which are almost below zero in terms of the undervoltage locked 12700H) or a solution.

First at all I'd love to know what the EXACT (@Dell) Specs are for this specific Model. What are Dells designed set TDP for the CPU (Intel I7-12700H) and TGP for the GPU (RTX 3050 4GB).

There is a bandwith from the manufactures which are limited in the worst case by the final manufacturer/assembler/nd designer of a given Model, which would be you (@DELL). The final actual permanent achievable performance of a device stands and falls with its thermal design. I am not asking for a friend btw.

I got my 14 Plus about 2 months ago and did use it not that much and not intense- until this weekend where i was able to stress-test it and see what someone can squeeze out of it. There is a really nice review out there ->

 

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https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Inspiron-14-Plus-7420-laptop-review-For-power-users-on-a-budget.6...

CPU Clock (GHz)GPU Clock (MHz)Average CPU Temperature (°C)Average GPU Temperature (°C)
System Idle----5947
Prime95 Stress1.9--8063
Prime95 + FurMark Stress0.9~14856967
Witcher 3 Stress~1.115908074

Stress Test

Running Prime95 to stress the CPU would cause clock rates, temperature, and board power draw to spike to 3.5 GHz, 100 C, and 80 W, respectively, for about 10 seconds or so. Thereafter, clock rates, temperature, and board power draw would steadily decline before stabilizing at 1.9 GHz, 80 C, and 38 W, respectively, in order to keep temperatures in check. The performance drop is relatively steep as the HP Pavilion Plus 14 with the same CPU is able to maintain a faster 2.2 to 2.9 GHz range when subjected to the same test.

Running Witcher 3 shows the GeForce GPU stabilizing at 1590 MHz, 74 C, and 50 W. In comparison, the RTX 3050 Ti in the larger Inspiron 16 Plus would stabilize at 1627 MHz, 84 C, and 63 W. Core temperatures are unsurprisingly high since this is one of the few 14-inch laptops to come with both a Core H-series CPU and a GeForce RTX GPU. Changing the power profile from Ultra Performance to Optimized will drop the GPU power draw to around 45 W or less.

 

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showing some similar results, but i really want to know how much maximum power i can get out of the CPU + GPU going mad and the overall Package Power. The power adapter is theoretically set up for 130 W, but this is nothing i could reach. 

The whole limited given settings with most of the Dell Notebooks is not so nice - something i didnt really dive too much into - until now. You cannot do much with this specific Model here, because the 12700H is locked and not able to be undervolted - undervolt? Why would you want this? Because it gets VERY HOT. Because it simply doesnt make sense to design a powerhorse which isnt able to run the extra mile that you would've expected. 

I did learn ALOT about thermal and power throttling the last 48 hours and i still dont know how i can optimize it to stop it from doing so. Especially with PL1 and PL2. In reality i dont need the P Cores running with 4,7GHz, not a single second, and the E Cores with 3,5 GHZ. You cant set a max threshold for these , nowhere. I got that. 

The only thing i could do is get XTU or Throttlestop running with my personal given PL1 and PL2, but what to choose best? I was on vacation a few days and wanted to play some 3D games - tried various settings from ultra down to mid - but i just cant get behind what this notebook is doing.

In Throttlestop i got weird values and permanent alternating warnings about power and temperature throttling notifications. What would be good values for PL1 and PL2 to get a great overall performance without constantly reaching temps over 90 up to 97 degrees which causes the whole thing to instant throttle down.  I was not able to get more than 35 W out of the 3050. The CPU, if you take the minimum guarantueed TDP of 35 stabilizes around 75 to 80 degrees with 20-25 W - thats around 1,8 to 1,9 GHZ - very disappointing. ( Need to make more tests i fear). 

In theory the 3050 can go up to 80W, the 12700H can go up to 110W which makes 190W - the delivered power supply would be way too less for that, so i get to the point where i understand that the maximum can only be 135 W - which is a design decision mabe by someone hopefully with an idea what to do with this Inspiron 14 Plus and in what intensity. The fans go super turbine mode loud, and while the gpu reaches 100% occupation, the cpu , depening on the game - shows around 15 to 30% occupation - max. - giving an average of 20-25 W.

It would help to know if someone has similar experiences and maybe some "master" settings to get more out of it. I really dont see the advantage of something being capable of ALOT, but running overall below the standard clocks during a normal to high workload put on.

I really feel like i got something worth 800 bucks , but did pay 1450 for it. That is not ok.

My aim would be to get a decent short boost PL2 performance without going beyond 90 degrees, and a good PL1 performance stabilizing around  60-70 degrees. This would be easily achieved with undervolting -which you cannot do - so i can only jiggle with PL1 , PL2 . Obi-Wan Kenobi - please help! 

 

 

Solution (1)

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Solution as following -

- a good repaste with SYY 157

- Prochot offset of 10 (90 degrees)

- limiting the speed shift value to a maximum of 55 (minimum value 4 and maximum of 60 shown) - meaning that it will boost only up to 4.2ghz max.


This brought a decent boost in general performance, a reduction in temperatures and almost no audible fan noise during slight to moderate operations. During high loads the system is able to bost down to a frequency of  additional +300 mhz with less measurable heat (-5-8 degrees).

I do not recommend doing this to someone who is not skilled, lacking the knowledge and in general not capable of doing so, as there is a risk in ruining parts when operating with cpu/gpu /heatpipes and spreaders.

In terms of PL1 and PL2 settings - i let those the way the system automatically adapts them in therms of thermals, meaning ->

PL2 stays at 80, Pl1 is around 25 to 65, depending on the duration and load of the performance put on the whole system.

Overall i got a max of 40 WATT on the gpu, 80 WATT on the CPU and a maximum overall combined power-draw of about 100-115 W. I think this is definitely the designed limitation of this unit with a tuning like this. The only next step would be to replace the SYY157 thermal paste with liquid metal, which is something i don't do (even if capable) and i also absolutely do not recommend to anyone!

 

 

 

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Replies (16)
3 Argentum
843

Little update from my side -  did install HWiNFO64 and did play around with Throttlestop PL1 and PL2 settings.

The overall combined powerdraw got up to a value of 103.5 W - this is the maximum i got out of it so far. I managed to squeeze 50 Watt out of the CPU, managed to get the GPU up to 38 W, but i think 35 W is the actual real limit.

Still having huge temperature issues when i start demanding power and performance over a longer period.  Weird thing -> the clocks were going up to 3.2 GHZ, floating around 2,6-2,8 GHZ, but this keeps the unit very HOT with average temperatures of 85-90.

Seems i got to play around more. Especially with the PL1 and PL2 settings - might be able to tame those max frequencies with it a bit. We'll see.

 

3 Argentum
817

Well, after being privately messaged by dell cares and given some random copy paste information i got like weeks before (official intel processor specs as well as official geforce rtx 3050 specs....) - i really feel like whether i am not "allowed" to get the designed specs of board power, gpu and cpu power, but yeah, its not like i bought and own it. lol. 

Nonetheless i am still fooling around with throttlestop and i set "prochot offset" to 10. This sets the whole thing to start thermal throttling at 90 degrees - it still reaches max temperatures of 94-96 in short peaks though, but not going up to 100, which is the set maximum from Intel anyway.

Slowly going to understand what MSR and MMIO has to do with PL1 and PL2. I had to reset Throttlestop after i messed around with value and lock boxes a bit too much.

My machine automatically sets MSR -> PL1 - 70 and PL2 - 80.

I monitored that MMIO values are automatically "floating" with PL1. 

I got PL1 automatically changing from 35 up to 45 and then during a longer gaming session down to 20, while PL2 keeps staying at 80. In terms of thermal design- this is a bit of a bummer- to be honest.

Temperature with a stabilizing clock around 1,9-2,2 GHZ showing 75-80 degrees. Before hitting this values, the system manages to stay around 3GHZ for some time with 85 to 90 max (thats where my set throttle-value of 90 will start kicking in anyway).

After closing the gaming session it recovers pretty quick starting to autmatically increase PL1 MMIO value slowly , as core temperatures decrease.

Not sure for now if i will force Throttlestop to keep the system running at given fixed values. Other input from other users with a Dell Notebook with a 12700h would be much appreciated. 

 

In terms of the GPU - it pretty much locks at max 35 W and even HWiNFO64 showing that i got up to a max of 40W, it really never runs with that value at a given period of time. GPU Hotspot 82 max, GPU 75 max.

 

8 Krypton
816

"Other input from other users with a Dell Notebook with a 12700h would be much appreciated."

The only true comparison is another system of the same model with this CPU.  You can also purchase this CPU in an Alienware M15 R7.  And in the Alienware, it is cooled by a thermal mass that allows it to run at higher speed far longer than in the lightweight Inspiron you have.

Despite putting the same CPU in both systems, the laws of thermodynamics dictate the performance will track with the cooling capacity -- that's the limitation you face with any 14" system vs one 15" or larger.

 

814

Hey there.

I know. Thats what i was exactly telling Dell too, like you can have 50 different Notebooks with the 12700H, different Brands and Model-Types and you will get different outcomes - all stands and falls with the thermal design. Got that. Just trying to find the best compromise with this unit here - love it so far - but maybe youre right - could i buy again , i would definitely choose another one, maybe from another brand with more freedom to tweak bios settings and additional software supporting the overall handling of it.

Ultimately it is my own fault - i am using Desktop PCs custom builds with AMD for ages now and really wanted to give Intel a chance in terms of a Notebook. I was not aware back then, that i did exactly choose the wrong (12th) generation as well as the processor type which is not tweakable at all. I really dont wanna end up thermal pasting it with liquid metal risking to fry, just to get those high load temps under control.

And dont get me wrong, i am not complaining or anything. Its just too much to ask Dell, the Brand i am usually down to, to give me the Thermal Design specs for this thing here. Know what? It is no longer available in the Austrian Dell Online Store anyway. Like 3 weeks after i got mine, it seems to be "discontinued" at least in our country. You can still get one in the German store or other Countries....

Thanks for your 2 cents though.

 

 

3 Argentum
811

Next update so far, for anyone who might encounter a similar situation with this model here. I managed to tame down the max. MHZ clock speed with a speedshift set max value of "55" - this maximizes 4'289.5 MHZ (might pull that down to 3,6-4 ghz maybe). A Prochot offset of 12 (88 degrees) - keeping the overall max. cpu temps not going above 90-91 degrees so far. 

3 Argentum
752

Solution as following -

- a good repaste with SYY 157

- Prochot offset of 10 (90 degrees)

- limiting the speed shift value to a maximum of 55 (minimum value 4 and maximum of 60 shown) - meaning that it will boost only up to 4.2ghz max.


This brought a decent boost in general performance, a reduction in temperatures and almost no audible fan noise during slight to moderate operations. During high loads the system is able to bost down to a frequency of  additional +300 mhz with less measurable heat (-5-8 degrees).

I do not recommend doing this to someone who is not skilled, lacking the knowledge and in general not capable of doing so, as there is a risk in ruining parts when operating with cpu/gpu /heatpipes and spreaders.

In terms of PL1 and PL2 settings - i let those the way the system automatically adapts them in therms of thermals, meaning ->

PL2 stays at 80, Pl1 is around 25 to 65, depending on the duration and load of the performance put on the whole system.

Overall i got a max of 40 WATT on the gpu, 80 WATT on the CPU and a maximum overall combined power-draw of about 100-115 W. I think this is definitely the designed limitation of this unit with a tuning like this. The only next step would be to replace the SYY157 thermal paste with liquid metal, which is something i don't do (even if capable) and i also absolutely do not recommend to anyone!

 

 

 

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
376

Glad someone else has gone through some of this already!

I have the 7420+ w/ the i7 but integrated graphics. To your original post, I am seeing quite poor thermals running CPU-Zs stress test w/ a maximum CPU temperature hitting 96C before throttling down to 2.2 ghz

Have you made any additional progress since your last post or were those final changes the ones you stick with till today?

339

Hi there!

Well i am not glad, that someone else has to go through this....

I will update you, as i am currently facing a complete different problem.

First at all i had one of the fans doing crazy noises , which i asked Dell to replace - i got it sent with UPS, super fast, all good so far.

What happend is, that during the replacement process - i was kinda "lazy" and didnt want to remove the heatsink just for getting that fan cable - so i sligthly raised it on one side to get the cable and replaced the fan - now what happened was , that the whole heatsink was kinda bent - just little enough for causing the gpu to overheat and loose alot of performance - -tried to bend the whole heatsink after removal- which caused me to remove and repaste, remove again - turned out i needed a new heatsink unit.

Guess what. The new one was even worse. After applying everything it was 3mm off on the side where the gpu is and caused to permanently throttle the GPU down. So i did remove that again and learned how to "bend" a heatsink - resulting in a amazing performance - -4-5 degrees better overall temperatures - also repasted with SYY157 for sure.

 

I thought that i will be finally happy now. After 1-2 Weeks using it - i noticed a coil whine developing - which is audible and i HATE IT for being there. I tracked down the root cause, which is, the TURBO.

When i turn off the Turbo-Mode - it instantly stops - turn it on again - audible again. Its a very annoying scratching noise along with some frequencies going up and down.

So i had to contact Dell again and it might be necessary to replace the whole motherboard or maybe the complete unit - A BUMMER.

Will report later with my final results once i will have a hardware which does not develop a coil WHINE ......

 

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
182

So funny story, I thought my original heatsink was better than my 2 replacement ones, I noticed the slight bends in the newer heatsink but didn't think a terrible amount of it. Since Dell replaced my heatsink due to an internal 'dripping' problem, seen here via my Google Photos video link, I've had worse temperatures since then. If you have the same sound per my video, it's a heatsink issue and must be replaced. It's only audible under load and if the unit is at an angle.

What's your battery been like? I know 12th gen Intel isn't supposed to be insane, but I get maybe an hour and half battery life with generally light settings.
Screenshot 2022-11-24 000655.png

I use my laptop docked with a USB-C dock and Razer Chroma X and unfortunately can't rely on it as it overheats constantly. 

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