115 Posts
0
4614
Inspiron 14 Plus 7420 Intel I7-12700H, Thermal and PowerThrottling Issues + TGP & TDP?
Inspiron 14 Plus 7420
Dear Community,
I need further assistance and maybe other users with similar issues and problems giving me some advice and maybe tweakability options (which are almost below zero in terms of the undervoltage locked 12700H) or a solution.
First at all I'd love to know what the EXACT (@Dell) Specs are for this specific Model. What are Dells designed set TDP for the CPU (Intel I7-12700H) and TGP for the GPU (RTX 3050 4GB).
There is a bandwith from the manufactures which are limited in the worst case by the final manufacturer/assembler/nd designer of a given Model, which would be you (@DELL). The final actual permanent achievable performance of a device stands and falls with its thermal design. I am not asking for a friend btw.
I got my 14 Plus about 2 months ago and did use it not that much and not intense- until this weekend where i was able to stress-test it and see what someone can squeeze out of it. There is a really nice review out there ->
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| CPU Clock (GHz) | GPU Clock (MHz) | Average CPU Temperature (°C) | Average GPU Temperature (°C) | |
| System Idle | -- | -- | 59 | 47 |
| Prime95 Stress | 1.9 | -- | 80 | 63 |
| Prime95 + FurMark Stress | 0.9 | ~1485 | 69 | 67 |
| Witcher 3 Stress | ~1.1 | 1590 | 80 | 74 |
Stress Test
Running Prime95 to stress the CPU would cause clock rates, temperature, and board power draw to spike to 3.5 GHz, 100 C, and 80 W, respectively, for about 10 seconds or so. Thereafter, clock rates, temperature, and board power draw would steadily decline before stabilizing at 1.9 GHz, 80 C, and 38 W, respectively, in order to keep temperatures in check. The performance drop is relatively steep as the HP Pavilion Plus 14 with the same CPU is able to maintain a faster 2.2 to 2.9 GHz range when subjected to the same test.
Running Witcher 3 shows the GeForce GPU stabilizing at 1590 MHz, 74 C, and 50 W. In comparison, the RTX 3050 Ti in the larger Inspiron 16 Plus would stabilize at 1627 MHz, 84 C, and 63 W. Core temperatures are unsurprisingly high since this is one of the few 14-inch laptops to come with both a Core H-series CPU and a GeForce RTX GPU. Changing the power profile from Ultra Performance to Optimized will drop the GPU power draw to around 45 W or less.
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showing some similar results, but i really want to know how much maximum power i can get out of the CPU + GPU going mad and the overall Package Power. The power adapter is theoretically set up for 130 W, but this is nothing i could reach.
The whole limited given settings with most of the Dell Notebooks is not so nice - something i didnt really dive too much into - until now. You cannot do much with this specific Model here, because the 12700H is locked and not able to be undervolted - undervolt? Why would you want this? Because it gets VERY HOT. Because it simply doesnt make sense to design a powerhorse which isnt able to run the extra mile that you would've expected.
I did learn ALOT about thermal and power throttling the last 48 hours and i still dont know how i can optimize it to stop it from doing so. Especially with PL1 and PL2. In reality i dont need the P Cores running with 4,7GHz, not a single second, and the E Cores with 3,5 GHZ. You cant set a max threshold for these , nowhere. I got that.
The only thing i could do is get XTU or Throttlestop running with my personal given PL1 and PL2, but what to choose best? I was on vacation a few days and wanted to play some 3D games - tried various settings from ultra down to mid - but i just cant get behind what this notebook is doing.
In Throttlestop i got weird values and permanent alternating warnings about power and temperature throttling notifications. What would be good values for PL1 and PL2 to get a great overall performance without constantly reaching temps over 90 up to 97 degrees which causes the whole thing to instant throttle down. I was not able to get more than 35 W out of the 3050. The CPU, if you take the minimum guarantueed TDP of 35 stabilizes around 75 to 80 degrees with 20-25 W - thats around 1,8 to 1,9 GHZ - very disappointing. ( Need to make more tests i fear).
In theory the 3050 can go up to 80W, the 12700H can go up to 110W which makes 190W - the delivered power supply would be way too less for that, so i get to the point where i understand that the maximum can only be 135 W - which is a design decision mabe by someone hopefully with an idea what to do with this Inspiron 14 Plus and in what intensity. The fans go super turbine mode loud, and while the gpu reaches 100% occupation, the cpu , depening on the game - shows around 15 to 30% occupation - max. - giving an average of 20-25 W.
It would help to know if someone has similar experiences and maybe some "master" settings to get more out of it. I really dont see the advantage of something being capable of ALOT, but running overall below the standard clocks during a normal to high workload put on.
I really feel like i got something worth 800 bucks , but did pay 1450 for it. That is not ok.
My aim would be to get a decent short boost PL2 performance without going beyond 90 degrees, and a good PL1 performance stabilizing around 60-70 degrees. This would be easily achieved with undervolting -which you cannot do - so i can only jiggle with PL1 , PL2 . Obi-Wan Kenobi - please help!
Martin Toth
5 Posts
1
November 28th, 2022 08:00
Hi Steve,
thanks for the info regarding Kryonaut - you basically confirmed what I was afraid of (and unfortunately have found out only after I had applied Kryonaut). Anyways, the SYY is still in transit and should be arriving by the end of this week. I will post an update when I finish with the repasting.
I like your choice of the word "generous" when talking about the way the original paste was applied on. I will just add two words - SAME HERE. The CPU was pretty easy to clean off, but the NVIDIA chip was a total mess.
Regarding the COIL WHINE - thanks for confirming. I have never experienced it, "good" to know that I am not the only one with a "faulty" unit.
I made the brand switch from HP (after switching to HP from Lenovo years ago because I wasn't happy with the current Thinkpads as an original IBM Thinkpad owner) and I must say, that this is by far the worst experience with a laptop among the "big three" brands for the past 20 years. Thermals and power management is completely nuts on this model. I am not happy with my purchase at all and I do have the same bad feelings when seeing all these black friday sale ads.
P.S.: I have a new problem with the laptop for which I haven't had the time to research for a solution yet. Coming from a W10 machine without Modern Standby I was shocked when I first pulled out a super hot laptop from my bag after my daily commute. I was used to S3 sleep mode. Due to this "problem" I switched to Hibernate mode when traveling, but sometimes my fans won't turn off after entering Hibernation and keep running forever even though the laptop has already saved all work and entered hibernation. I will be troubleshooting these issues after I finish with the SYY repasting and compare the power/thermal graphs from the benchmarks.
Regards,
Martin
fullyard
115 Posts
0
November 29th, 2022 11:00
@Martin Toth
@jpsulisz
Guys - you wouldnt believe whats happening right now. I am being offered a replacement - but they tell me that there are no more Inspiron 14 Plus available. So i got a Inspiron 15 - 3520 replacement offer which literally makes me speechless. They want me to downgrade to a unit which is worth like 500 bucks less, is bigger and has not even a dedicated gpu and all. Dont know what to say right now.
Keep y'all updated...
fullyard
115 Posts
1
December 1st, 2022 01:00
Well - final and last update from my side (Alot to read)
@Martin Toth
@jpsulisz
Dell is not able to replace me the same model and configuration. I come to the conclusion, that they whether discontinue it, or simply have too much problems in terms of returns warranty/service issues.
-questionable TDP and thermal design, stripping down the CPU down to 50% of its performance during high to intense loads with its original weak thermal paste
-too thin brushed aluminum which is prone to scratches and dents and fragile
-Coil Whine?!?!
I am allowed to return the unit and will get my money back. Unfortunately there are (especially here in the Austria store) only 2 models which would be ok, but i cant afford a 2700 bucks XPS 15, which would be the only REAL choice - and dont want to get a Alienware x14 with soldered RAM (the 32 gb configuration is insanely expensive).
I currently lost somewhat my confidence in DELL picking a unit for my private/semi-work/music production/casual gaming needs- not sure what to think in this actual state of mind.
Spent the whole night reverse-engineering my unit back to its original state (did replace the better cooling pads with the grey ones it came with, a good "DELL" factory repaste with WAY TOO much paste on the GPU and CPU and IGPU, as well as putting back the original NVME SSD And DDR 8GB Ram -stick. I also reinstalled the original heat-sink it came with- works fine with it with a thick layer of paste. lol).
Before i changed the Hard-Drive though, i made a final 30-45 Minutes benchmark and completely RESET Throttlestop to its core-settings (just delete the config file, might come in handy to know). So no prochot offset reduction, no PL1 and PL2 manipulations and not tweaking speedshift to tame the max turbo down to 4,2 GHZ.
I can once again absolutely RECOMMEND SYY157 for everyone who has overheating issues with a Dell unit. It runs smoothly with max temps of 97 degrees, barely audible fans during browsing and normal duties - and 48 dB in optimized mode during gaming and 52-53 dB in Ultra Performance mode.
Optimized:
During very demanding gaming the unit is able to a maximum of average 35 W TDP for the RTX 3050 mobile while the CPU clocks stabilize around 2,2-2,3 GHZ (which is very acceptable for this thing here).
Ultra Performance:
During very demanding gaming the unit is able to a maximum of average 45-50 W TDP for the RTX 3050 mobile with the same CPU clock - but 52-53 dB is way more audible which is OK when you demand that much.
I also observed, that the 32 GB Crucial DDR5 4800 stick produces WAY more heat (yeah i guess that's "ok") and even with a decent small copper/graphite nvme heatsink on it it will result in transferring heat onto the NVME SSD which is pretty much next to it, causing the drive to get up to +7-10 degrees, at least that's what i observed in my unit. (temperatures on the drive were 63 max with the crucial installed, and went not up beyond 55 with the original 8 gb without a heatsink on it)
The original 8 GB ram will heat up, nonetheless, to a maximum of 62-63 degrees without any heatsink on it (in its original state). I couldn't check the original harddrive temps, as this was the last step and stopped after reinstall Win11.
TLDNR / FINAL CONCLUSION
If it was not for the COIL WHINE (which was still there with the other heatsink - so thats 100% not causing it -> "we" knew that anyway), this notebook would be a absolute top notch unit in a price tag around 1300-1500 bucks. The fact that Dell provides a Copper-Heatsink for the NVME harddrive is also a nice extra.
Once you re-paste it with SYY157 this 14 inch notebook is a very versatile power horse which can do pretty much anything. You can tweak the overall maximum temps with reducing the turbo in Throttlestop to a acceptable value still getting ALOT of its max performance with less audible fans and noise.
I can recommend to everyone experiencing a Coil Whine with Dell notebooks to use Dells Service and ask for a replacement. They need to learn to provide their Customers with better designed parts.
All the best to you.
Cheers,
Fullyard
fullyard
115 Posts
0
March 2nd, 2023 12:00
Hi!
@Martin Toth
@jpsulisz
I just wanted to give you and the community in general an update. After a few months i saw the Inspiron 14 Plus available again in the DELL store as well as the Amazon store.
As it was 10% off i pulled the trigger and hoped for the best. I should have known!!!
The fresh unit i got was manufactured 24/12/2022 and after finishing the Win11 install i started to test and benchmark the unit - but had to abort the operation. COIL WHINE. Asked Amazon for a replacement, got it today, sending it back after 15 minutes usage. COIL WINE AS WELL.
DELL. You have some serious quality problems and i can HIGHLY recommend to anyone experiencing coil whine to unleash the hellfire on them and return every unit until they manage to get rid of it. I' dug in the web and it seems that XPS 15 as well as even their precision premium line is affected by this. This is UNACCEPTABLE. I am done with this brand.
So bear in mind, that COIL WHINE is a given manufactured standard for these products.
Cheers,
Fullyard
Martin Toth
5 Posts
1
March 3rd, 2023 15:00
Hi @fullyard,
thanks for the follow up, I am sorry to hear about the continuation of your terrible UX with DELL. I still had hopes, that DELL might start fixing stuff on newer batches and/or newer models, but after my 7620 Inspiron started to have the same trackpad issues as the 7610 Inspiron was "famous" for, and after hearing about the coil whine issue being default for (almost) every manufactured unit I have lost all hope.
Btw, I finally managed to fix the trackpad issue:
- in my case, the trackpad randomly stopped responding (both to touch and click) and a full shutdown was needed to get it back working again. But the issue would usually return after 20 to 60 minutes of usage, so basically I had to use an external mouse all the time even when travelling to be able to do work.
- a simple restart would not fix the issue (only a full shutdown) and after entering the SupportAssist Diagnostics the system would not detect any HW issues, but the trackpad would still be unresponsive in the DIAG menu... LOL
-anyways, I finally managed to fix it with the "grounding method" (i.e. grounding the trackpad's copper contact pad under the battery to the nearest chassis screw - which I have tested with a multimeter to be a common ground. I did the grounding with a piece of metal tape instead of the recommended ground-wire soldering so I wouldn't void any warranty,
- currently I am still testing this fix, but the issue hasn't returned since (for 2 full weeks now).
I can also confirm, that your suggestions regarding taming the temps with SYY157 repaste job + Throttlestop are working like a charm.
So basically I managed to fix most off the issues with the unit by myself and I am glad I did, because DELL won't fix a thing and we are literally wasting your time with the warranty process. You can find countless of unhappy customers on many different forums and social media where DELL would send replacement parts one after another and the issues would still persist, becasue:
1. all the motherboards are affected by the COIL WHINE (sooner or later the coil whine would be present when using the unit),
2. no trackpad replacement would eliminate the unresponsiveness when the main issue is with the electrical grounding,
3. due to the overall bad thermal design there is no easy fix for the crazy temps, always on loud fans and frequent thermal throttling issues.
These are all issues affecting sooner or later every manufactured model by default.
I would highly recommend to anyone to return the units for a full refund if possible and don't waste time with DELL support. Unfortunately I had missed both the local and global refund policy deadlines while trying to find more info on the issues, so I had to decide between trying to get help from DELL or fixing stuff by myself. As I have mentioned - after reading through a ton of topics I am glad I choose the latter.
Regards,
Martin