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Last reply by 08-05-2014 Unsolved
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2 Bronze
2 Bronze
149770

Dell 5737 problem with USB3 HDD caddy

I have a Dell 5737 (Win 8.1) that came with a Samsung Momentus St1000LM024 1TB HDD.


I've installed an SSD in the laptop, and moved the HDD into a USB3/UASP enclosure (see http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HHO0U7U/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ).

After a few minutes of sustained use (EG format partition with "quick format" disabled), I get error:-


USB device not recognized

The last USB device you connected to this computer malfunctioned, and Windows does not recognize it.

Event Viewer lists the following:-

Event 153, disk
The IO operation at logical block address 0x1c43a800 for Disk 1 (PDO name: \Device\0000008f) was retried.
(12:14:34)
The IO operation at logical block address 0x1c43ac00 for Disk 1 (PDO name: \Device\0000008f) was retried.
(12:13:00)

Event 129, UASPStor
Reset to device, \Device\RaidPort2, was issued.
(9 occurences, 12:13:17 - 12:15:48)

Event 140, Ntfs
The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur in VolumeId: \\?\Volume{3ce92d13-06cd-456b-8f19-a735f1d63ffb}, DeviceName: \Device\HarddiskVolume30.
(A device which does not exist was specified.)
(7 occurences, all 12:16:34)

The caddy has both data & power cables. I get the same errors, regardless whether the data cable is plugged into laptop's USB3 or USB2 port, the power cable is plugged into laptop's USB3 port, USB2 port or an external 2A charger for my Samsung tablet.

The caddy works perfectly well when connected to the USB3 port on my desktop PC (happily formatted a 700GB partition at 100MBps over 2+ hours). NB this is Win7.

The disk works perfectly well on the laptop when I put it in a Sharkoon Quickport USB2 adapter, on laptop's USB3 port.

I seem therefore to have eliminated:-

  • Caddy has a universal fault;
  • Disk has a fault;
  • Caddy incompatible with HDD;

I seem to be left with:-

  • Laptop is incompatible with the caddy.

Can anyone suggest any troubleshooting / settings I can adjust to make the caddy work with the Dell?

Many thanks for any help.

Cheers, Martin

Replies (18)
2 Bronze
2 Bronze
1192

SSD's draw MUCH LESS Power than Hard Drives.  This is why the caddy has aux power input.

You need a 2AMP 5v power supply aka  10W or more. USB 2 puts out .5 AMP or 2.5W and USB3 puts out .9AMP

This is why the caddy has aux power connection.

Well, just to make this even a little stranger - I tried the caddy again when connected to the USB2.0 port, but with only the data cable connected, IE no auxiliary power connector, so just had to rely on the 2.5W from the data USB port.

It successfully trudged through format of a 700GB partition without recording any issues in Event Viewer, so I don't think we can lay this issue down to insufficient power.

Could be some issue with the design of the USB3.0 port on the caddy, or could be an issue with the design of the USB3.0 port on the Dell.

Unless anyone has reports of a caddy that does work with the 5737's USB3 ports, looks like I'm stuck with USB2.0 speeds.

Thanks for both your help.

cheers, Martin

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
1192

I'm now having confusing results.

I tried one more time to format the partition with the caddy connected to USB2. And it worked, despite having tried & failed multiple times before! Maybe something to do with a setting that I changed, but I'm pretty sure all settings are the same (or have been reverted back to) the original settings.

Still fails via USB3 connection, so the issue appears to either be with the Dell's USB3 sockets, or with the caddy's handling of a USB3 connection.

Are there any hints how to fix a USB2 OK / USB3 fails scenario?

Thanks.

cheers, Martin

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
1192

The drive operates for several minutes under some stress (formatting at > 100MB/s) before disconnecting.

Quick question - can a "faked up" USB2 plug operate at a continuous 850 mbps+? Thought it had to be operating as USB3.0 to do that?

The caddy only manages ~22 MBPS (~175 mbps) when plugged into a USB 2.0 socket.

cheers, Martin

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
1192

Oh, and yes - the plugs on the cable have the 5x additional connectors at both ends.


cheers, Martin

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
1192

Fair 'nuff.


Looks to me like the port has the extra connectors?

cheers, Martin

10 Diamond
1191

Its not a static DC connection.  The troublesome caddy is NOT using USB 3.0 connectors.  USB 3.0 is replaced by USB 3.1 :P  Adding Blue Plastic to the connector opening is not making a USB 2.0 design compliant electrically.  USB 3.0 connections use more wires than USB 2.0  so they design the port so that the older standard can plug into the new connection port.  The additional wires and connections are to carry higher frequency data and almost 2x power being 900MA vs 500MA.

USB 3.0 Connectors and Cable Assemblies Document Rev. 1.02



USB 3.0 Specification
Universal Serial Bus 3.0 Specification (.pdf file format, size 32.4 MB) provides the technical details to understand USB 3.0 requirements and design USB 3.0 compatible products.

Non USB 3.0 Connectors and Cables mean that its not designed properly for transmitting the faster data.  Its the same reason that UDMA 33/66/133 ide cables need 80 wires instead of 40 wires for PATA Drives.  The additional Power is because of the faster Clock Rate or Frequency of the transmission.  Just Like a 1.6 Ghz processor uses less current than a 3.2 Ghz processor of the same make and series.


 

A proper cable for USB 3.0 designed enclosure looks like the one below.

 


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Diagnostics & Tools

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
1191

SSD's draw MUCH LESS Power than Hard Drives.  This is why the caddy has aux power input.

You need a 2AMP 5v power supply aka  10W or more. USB 2 puts out .5 AMP or 2.5W and USB3 puts out .9AMP

This is why the caddy has aux power connection.

The caddy worked fine with an OCZ Vertex 2 SSD inside, without the secondary power cable connected. The OCZ is rated at 2W "in operation", and tests on the internet rate the HDD at only 0.5W more (2.5W).

If the caddy operates OK with a 2W SSD without auxiliary cable connected, then it should be able to get the other 0.5W it needs from the power cable.

You will see that I did test with the power cable connected to the charger for my Samsung tablet, which is 5V @ 2A. Using this, I should have 7W headroom (over 3x the combined draw of the HDD + caddy), even ignoring any power the caddy could draw from the data cable.

It's also NOT using correct USB 3.0 connectors but rather appears to be a USB2 design retrofitted with newer chipset.

That is very true. However, the data socket looks to be the same sort of USB3 socket that the Dell uses for output. If the dell can put out 0.9A on that socket, it looks to me like the equivalent at the caddy end should be able to accept 0.9A.

Yes, it's a kludge, but one that looks like it might be able to take advantage of the power available on USB3. The Amazon page says as much:-

In most cases, the additional internal power supply isn't needed, Only used for USB 2.0 Port that the USB interface is unable to provide enough current, the power supply can be activated as an option.

The drive operates for several minutes under some stress (formatting at > 100MB/s) before disconnecting. My suspicion is that the Dell decides it can cut the power to the data socket, and that is what causes the failure.

The drive runs without a hiccough formatting a 700GB partition (2-3 hours) when it's connected to my desktop PC.

 

All that said,the difference between theory and practice is much smaller in theory than it is in practice!! Another way of saying, you may well be right despite everything I've tried above.

If there is a recommendation from someone that's experienced these issues with the 5737 (common, according to the reports above), who has then had success with a different model of caddy (one that has UASP support), I'd be willing to switch over.

cheers, Martin

10 Diamond
1191

SSD's draw MUCH LESS Power than Hard Drives.  This is why the caddy has aux power input.

You need a 2AMP 5v power supply aka  10W or more. USB 2 puts out .5 AMP or 2.5W and USB3 puts out .9AMP

This is why the caddy has aux power connection.

It's also NOT using correct USB 3.0 connectors but rather appears to be a USB2 design retrofitted with newer chipset.



 

 

 


Report Unresolved Customer Service Issues
here

I do not work for Dell. I too am a user.

The forum is primarily user to user, with Dell employees moderating
Contact USA Technical Support


Get Support on Twitter @DellCaresPro


Diagnostics & Tools

4 Tellurium
1191

Im sorry I have not been able to find a resolution on this for you. Let me do some further research on the matter and see if I can find something out. 

In the meantime, i would recommend trying the 1tb in the caddy on a different laptop, if you have one available

and I would also see if the hdd stays powered up when just sitting in BIOS on your laptop. 10 minutes in the BIOS window only, and just see if the drive is spinning. 

2 Bronze
2 Bronze
2573

Its hard to say. Does the HDD you are having issues with list the power requirements on the drive?

"Drive specs are 2.2w avg when reading/writing (yes, could spike higher)..." See http://www.seagate.com/files/staticfiles/support/docs/samsung-ds/100698122c.pdf

Have you tried the drive in another laptop vs just another desktop?

That, I haven't.

I have limited resources for some for the information I wish I had. If you select USB root hub you can see the listing of power in device manager, but I was wondering if the hub was giving power to each port separately or if was splitting power between ports. It makes me wonder if the second power USB is also working. The desktop may be overloading on USB power and giving enough power on just one USB connection, but the laptop is unable to do this, so it may be a problem with the power only usb connector. Its a long shot, but you have run through most other common problems, so whats left are the uncommon ones.

The power cable doesn't show on any of the USB ports.

The "USB root hub (xHCI)" doesn't have a power tab!

When *data* cable is plugged into a USB2 port, it says power required 0A.

Try connecting just one usb connection to the desktop and see if that works.

"I disabled selective suspend & re-ran. Same fail. Also tried with power cable plugged into desktop. Again no difference (USB SS was left disabled for this test)."

(And, of course, I've tried it with the caddy powered from my tablet's 2A PSU.)

I would also recommend switching off of RAID in Bios and going to ahci if you can.

It was AHCI - didn't have to change it.

I would also try starting your system and going into bios. making sure the drive is registered, and then watching the drive. Let the system sit in BIOS for about ten minutes and see if the drive is still spinning up in the caddy. If it is still spinning in the caddy with the comp in BIOS, then we can safely assume it is a windows issue and need to focus there.

BIOS lists the SATA attached drives, but not the USB one.

There are other things at play but I do not have the information handy to pinpoint. Some laptops have this issue, others dont, and there are different reasons behind it. I do external HDDs a lot, and I actually have done my own homemade caddy with a sata adapter and had things work fine, but other HDDs dont work. There are some things specific with the HDD that prevent them or are incompatible with the laptop. Like I said before, you are not the only person who has this problem. At least one other user had the same exact problem, just different Caddy.


Really appreciate all your help with this.

cheers, Martin

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