Latitude E6410 (Intel i7) fails to resume (total system freeze within first 3 seconds) from S3 Sleep (STR) when resumed running on battery power. Sometimes first resume cycle passes and problem occurs during 2nd or 3rd suspend/resume cycle. When the laptop is running on AC-power the resume works 100% correctly.
This issue disappears when SpeedStep is disabled in BIOS.
It seems like a BIOS bug (tested with rev. A05)
OS: Linux 2.6.35 and 2.6.36 x64, Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit
Update: Dell phone support classified the issue as HW problem; laptop servicing has been scheduled which should hopefully resolve the issue.
- mainboard (which includes nVidia discrete GPU)
No success so far. Remains to be tested with a different battery (currently using 9-cell hi-capacity battery with Express Charge)
Finally the issue has been officially classified by Dell as BIOS bug, there's no intermediate solution available until next release of BIOS (except from never resuming the laptop on battery power or having speed-step disabled, obviously).
I would gladly test-out a beta BIOS; Dell, please, feel free to contact me. I would provide you with my service in order that you could check-out the details of my HW specs and to provide you with feedback on the appropriate BIOS beta.
I've had my E6410 for about two weeks and have observed the same condition. Mine is the same configuration but with 64-bit, 8Gigs of RAM.
You are absolutely correct about waking from standby. I have observed the exact same symptoms and it was pretty frustrating.
I may have something that will work for you. If you can live with changing your power options from "standby" (S3) to "hibernate" (S4), your Latitude will probably wake normally.
No guarantee that this is the best workaround and it may not be as fast for you, but I tried doing this after I read one of your earlier posts, and so far, during the past week, it seems to be working perfectly for me.
I don't know what trade-off disabling speed-step in the BIOS would introduce, but I was somewhat skeptical when I you reported that Dell Customer Support suspected that it was a defective unit. I'm sure they did their troubleshooting correctly, but I couldn't imagine that I'd have the exact same issue with my machine.
I believe I'll be looking for the A06 BIOS on a regular basis.
Here's the information from my PC. We have similar models and features, but I don't have the Solid State Drive. I opted for a 7200RPM drive.
The only reason I chose this machine was because I really, really need a Dell laptop with a USB 3.0 port. What's that you say? This one doesn't have one of those. Correct. But it does come with an ExpressCard slot. This is not a great solution, but the configuration does allow me to use a third party "ExpressCard to dual USB 3.0 port" adapter.
I've been working on this for some time. What's been interesting is that each time, I get to the point where the "Resuming Windows" animated graphics appears and then, a few seconds later, the screen blanks, including the LED backlighting.
What I think may be happening is that it's definitely related to the "suspend" and "hibernation" modes, and the relationship between them.
I noted that you'd mentioned Linux OS on your earliest post so I don't know whether or not you're principally running Windows, or whether this applies to you.
What I've found in my case is that there's a point in the Windows 7 power management options where the we set the "sleep" and "hibernate" options. The default setting for S3 sleep may be five or ten minutes, or some other period of time. But S4 hibernate's default is set for 360 minutes. If the machine is left alone, Windows thinks you need to save yourself from a potential calamity, so sleep automatically changes over to hibernate .
When I close the lid, my machine goes to S3 sleep mode. There's a little blue LED on the top of the unit near the hinge that gently blinks on and off, indicating it's snoozing. According to the default power plan I'd selected, after 360 minutes, or six hours, of this kind of "sleep", my machine will "wake" for just enough time to write information to disk, go into hibernation, and then power down completely. From this point, all hope is lost.
Upon attempting to restore from S4, the machine becomes confused and the "resuming windows" graphic appears, which in itself, proves that it is trying to restore from hibernate. Normally, when you come back from unmolested S3, the machine simply awakes from "Standby", and there is no such graphic.
I have changed my power management to a shorter standby and have induced the machine to become a sleeping beauty much quicker. In fact, I can now get it to become comatose in a minute or two.
My new workaround is to set the hibernate option in my advanced power management window to "Never" so that my E6410 never invokes S4 hibernation. It's probably not the best option, but I have the larger 9-cell battery and as long as the lid is closed, the machine not drawing much current. I am confident that I will be able to charge it before it completely runs down.
So now I have a question, is this a problem with the machine or with the OS?
And the problem is apparently independent on the overlaying OS. I tested the issue extensively on both Windows and GNU Linux, 32-bit and 64-bit OS architectures. If you like, switch off Speed Step, it's much more power efficient to S3 sleep than idling with lid closed, just the backlight off. With Speed Step you're losing P-states frequency scaling, but thanks to C-states power management the power consumption is still good for battery mode. With Speed Step disabled the Turbo Boost is however disabled as well - don't get confused by the fact that Turbo Boost is controlled in BIOS separately. If Speed Step is ON, then Turbo Boost can be turned ON or OFF as additional option; if Speed Step is OFF, then Turbo Boost is always OFF by principle, no matter if set ON or OFF in BIOS.
Okay. Thanks for the advice on Speed Step. Is performance compromised in any way? For example, how much performance is lost if turn it off and Turbo Boost is disabled? Is it more "theoretical" than real-world practical?
Yes, I have the EC slot version, but I think it's irrelevant. I believe that 4 GB memory modules and firstname.lastname@example.org are two crucial factors.
If you could try a different size DDR3 module, it would be great to see if the issue disappears. I bet that either email@example.com or non-4GB-memmodule equipped E6410s are free from this issue.
As to SpeedStep turned off performance: it depends and I'm not an expert on this. In theory it saves you battery power on medium CPU loads and on the other hand it allows CPU frequency to scale up-to 3.3 GHz (620M @ 2.66 CPU) for a single core (when thermal factors are met and no other threads utilise heavily the other core). In practice, especially for CPU idling, the C-states matter the most and can do pretty good power saving even without SpeedStep. However Turbo Boost, which is unavailable without SpeedStep (e.g. i7z tool shows this clearly), as far as I can practically tell, is a great feature which increases loading times of most of applications by about 30% which is significant - especially with fast HDDs (like SSDs). With slower, classical HDDs, the app load times are largely dependent on HDD throughput so the CPU speed-up thanks to TurboBoost plays minor role. I think the best is to google for TurboBoost description and real life experiences. In general, any CPU intensive application (which is not heavily multi-threaded; minimum of common apps are) can significantly profit from TurboBoost in terms of overall performance gain.
Update: tried with different memory modules (2 x 2GB instead of 2 x 4GB) and with a different battery (6-cell instead of 9-cell) - no improvement.
There are now just 2 components left like real suspects (not counting that BIOS update could solve it): nVidia GPU and firstname.lastname@example.org CPU. But it's not grpahics what is stuck on resume, the complete system is frozen, so I suppose the combination E6410 Mainboard + Dell BIOS up to A05 + email@example.com CPU is fatal.
A guy from the net contacted me having the same issue, who claims that swapping his i7 620M @ 2.66 for i7 640M @ 2.80 CPU worked around the problem, same success with Core i5.
Btw. did you try to see what happens if you disable Speed Step?
Do these E6410's have the built in webcam? We had a similar issue with the E4300 and a particular webcam driver that would cause a very similar issue. Try removing the webcam drivers or updating them and see if that resolves the issue.
I did try disabling Speed Step and with respect to the waking from suspend, it has been very successful. I poked around the web to see what long-term result of doing this might be and there appeared to be some confusion among users. I eventually determined that when disabled, processor speed is always maximum, which would tend to generate additional heat with reduced battery performance.
OTOH, your suggestion did improve the standby situation. After twelve hours of idling, battery is at 93%. So nothing untoward seemed to happen overnight.
What I was getting at in a previous post, when I mentioned the graphics card, I was trying to inquire if you knew whether or not a different m/b was used when the nVidia adapter is installed vs. the native intel adapter. I had originally ordered an e6410-ATG, which had purported to have an ExpressCard Slot. I had to return it when Dell told me their website was wrong and it could not be configured with an ExpressCard Slot.
When I learned the proper method of ordering the EC slot, I discovered that you had to order the nVidia adapter with the ec slot at the time you ordered the machine because it could not be retrofitted after the fact. When my machine dies, my HD activity LED continues to flicker. Additionally, the Fn-F4 (num-lock) light will still toggle on and off. This suggested to me that it was possible that the machine was still active, but the the display was simply disabled.
I will concede that I have no way to determine this and your experience with troubleshooting has been much more extensive.
I wanted to make sure I had all of the symptoms right and it has taken a while for the sleep-hibernation transition to occur. And occasionally some inconsistent, intermittent behavior appears.
But I want to confirm that in addition to being able to see a flickering blue LED (indicating HD activity) my Fn-F4 button does indeed toggle, as I'd previously indicated and likewise, does the scroll lock LED. Even though the display is not on, my backlit keyboard lights up when keys are struck and then times out gracefully within a few seconds. And I can press the Fn-F1 button, which then puts it back into sleep--and one minute later, the machine switches over to hibernation, according to what I had previously set in Win7 Power Management for this test.
My problem is that after the Resuming Windows animation, when I should be pressing ctrl-alt-del to enter my password in order to log onto Windows, suddenly the LCD backlight blanks. In general, I had found nothing to restore the unit and wake it up short of pressing the power button for six or eight seconds and restarting Windows.
But this is still intermittent. Just now, for example, my machine went to sleep and then continued on to hibernation after one minute. But this time, when I pressed the power button, the Dell Latitude Series with BIOS A06 appeared on the screen, followed by a brief a blank, and then the Resuming Windows. Instead of blanking for good, as it most often does, it blanked for two or three seconds and then produced my Login Screen. So I was able to login after all this time.
I had tried to induce the problem condition earlier in the day, after resetting my Speed Step option to on, but it appears that there must be something else going on because the one minute wait didn't do the trick. I waited for ten minutes, and then an hour or so, but I didn't experience the problem. It was only after a period of several hours, that the problem came back.
This same intermittent condition had led me to believe earlier that defeating S3 and choosing S4 instead had produced a decent workaround. But after several hours, I discovered that the problem would return. I still believe that you and I have a similar problem, but at this point, I still think it may be related to the video card, especially after I looked at the some of the other posts by wtemple, who recently joined this discussion, and which led me to look at other problems with this display adapter. But I can't prove any of that based on my experience.
I will say that I did not observe these problems over the two or three week period during which I owned the E6410-ATG, which had the same processor and memory, but instead had the Intel chipset. I had hoped that the nVidia was a step up from the integrated display adapter, and in the long run, it may turn out that it is, but at the present time, I can't say one way or another.
I suspect you may have a different interpretation of the information I have tried to bring to light this time, and I will be glad to hear your insight, but it's getting late now. About 9:00 EST, so I'm about to head home for the night. I'm not sure of your location so I don't know if I should wish you good evening or good day, but so long for now.
Was I so blind to not realize your comments were not meant seriously from the very start? 😞
I'm sad that thanks to your contribution this thread has turned into a mock. People usually don't intervene in discussions which they're not interested in, unless they're malicious, why would you? I wouldn't judge a 100 channel TV owner putting a significant effort to fix noise present just on channel 23, because it's their favourite, even though the rest of channels were brilliant quality. Be tolerant with people and their priorities, they will be tolerant with yours.
I don't know what to say. I don't possess the same skill set that you do, and suspect that I'm of a different generation. When I saw that the symptoms you described were similar to what I'd been experiencing, I had hoped to gain from your insight. I did not capriciously jump into this discussion, but I sincerely wanted to contribute and get your feedback. I followed your suggestions to the best of my ability, and had had even learned some things from the experience I admired your ability and had nothing but respect for your comments. I invested my time to respond as carefully and thoroughly as I could. I was not trying to turn the thread into a mock.
I had hoped that your guidance would help me find an answer to the problem and that I might even be able to help you gain insight. Obviously, I didn't expect this turn.
Now I feel ashamed, embarrassed and humiliated. Don't worry. I'm done. This was my first foray into this, or any, such community. Clearly, I have no business here. From now on, I'm back to being an observer.
I'm sorry that you feel I've been wasting your time and I can assure you that had no malicious intent. Perhaps someone smarter than I will be able to help you resolve your issues.
Macrochip don't go! Sorry that Herroux is being kind of a jerk. I have been reading through this because I have a new E6410 (4GB RAM, CPU 2.53) that hangs on resume while on A/C. Haven't tried battery yet but will soon. I have lots more testing to do but this thread has been good! It's given me lots to think about and test. Please hang in there and disregard any stupid comments about this being a mock.
Nope. Can't stay. This is Herroux' thread. He started it and deserves answers from folks who may be in better a position to help. It is best for me to retire from his thread. I hope that Herroux may eventually resolve his issues and post a solution that will be helpful to others. I would like to state that I believe this problem is significant but that I don't want to interfere with the process.
My machine has already locked up on two separate occasions today so clearly, I'm still searching. If I happen to stumble on a solution elsewhere, out of courtesy, I will open a separate thread of my own.
Before leaving, I will comment that I find it interesting that your machine is different from mine, and the other two, in that it has 4GB of RAM and the 2.53 CPU, and yet it still hangs.
Best of luck.
To work around the laptop getting hotter than hades issue there are a couple things you can do.
disable hibernation in windows. Your laptop will wake up eventually to put itself in hibernation.
disable waking from standbye in the bios. Not 100% the Dell bios allows us to set this.
make sure you are aware of when your computer does a backup (if any) and have it out of the bag when that time would occur.
That should take care of the problem most of the time.
I still have this problem more often than not. The laptop will take forever to go to sleep, or forever to turn on. Sometimes the bios screen shows, sometimes nothing ever shows, sometimes everything works but it takes several minutes. This is on a very fast laptop so it makes no sense. once the login screen shows up (if ever) it is fast again.
I think moving to bios A07 will help, but alas A07 will not install on my machine (no error given). Dell can't seem to figure out how to help me with it. Their techs don't even call me back.
I got this problem on a Dell Latitude E6400 and found a Vista solution to restore Hibernation but another issue involved a Disk Cleanup setting where it was enabled to perform the disk cleanup while in standby. Apparently, the roots of this feature were in Win XP because THAT was my problem.
Go to START > Program Files > Accessories > Disk Cleanup
Close Disk Cleanup and re-open it, verify everything is still unchecked.
Close Disk Cleanup.
Close the lid.
Normal sleep / standby mode should result.
In Vista, you should be able to disable Disk Cleanup in standby, but i have XP, so I cannot verify this.
Re-enabling hibernation was a resolution for Vista. Might be for XP too, but I wouldn't be able to tell you how.
Though turning off speed-step enables the laptop to always successfully resume, it is an inefficient workaround. E6410 and/or it's BIOS is deffective by design and Dell apparently does not care.
if you say so.
Legacy BIOS and Windows are bed partners. EFI might be a different story, but we don't have that in this screnario do we?
I'm not proposing a FIX, I'm proposing a workaround.
Does anyone have a case number for the issue with Dell for the BIOS defect? Has anyone had the CPU replaced by dell with an i5 and tested?
I'll start off by saying I think I've found a solution. TL;DR below. Here's my system:
Intel® Core™ i7 CPU M 620 @ 2.67GHz × 4
Dual Boot: Ubuntu 11.10 64-bit, Win 7 64bit
I've been suffering with this issue for too long. Ever since I put Ubuntu on my e6410 it hasn't been able to reliably resume from being suspended (lid close), mostly problematic while on the battery. Today I decided to search the net again for a solution, just like I have been every month or two. Found this thread and and tried a few things mentioned but nothing solved the problem. Over the last year and half I've tried a lot suggestions. None worked. I waited for updates from Nvidia, Ubuntu, Dell... no updates worked. Just today I tried these, some for the first time, some once again since I have installed some updates.
1. Upgraded my BIOS from A06 to A09. Still not able to resume. I don't have any hopes that A10 will help since someone else mentioned it didn't help them.
2. Turned off SpeedStep in BIOS. Still could not resume from suspended (lid close).
3. Turned off SpeedStep and TurboBoost. Still could not resume from suspended (lid close).
4. Changed Lid Close from Suspend to Hibernate (for both AC and Battery). I don't like this workaround.
Then I noticed something that I didn't before. If I hit the power button it prompts me asking if I want to Suspend, Hibernate, Restart or Shutdown. So I click Suspend and the machine goes to sleep. Leaving the lid open, I hit the power button again and the machine resumes as it should! Crazy, right? So I dug deeper and soon I fixed it... at least so far so good.
TL;DR Here's what I did to map the sleep event to the lid close event.
$ sudo cp /etc/acpi/lid.sh /etc/acpi/lid.sh.bak
$ sudo rm /etc/acpi/lid.sh
$ sudo cp /etc/acpi/sleepbtn.sh /etc/acpi/lid.sh
So maybe the Ubuntu guys needs to take a look at the lid.sh and related scripts because that seems to be where the problem is IMHO. Spread the word.
Most probably your're talking about a different issue with your particular Linux distro.
Originally this thread describes a confirmed HW/BIOS flaw of Latitude E6410.
Tested on 3 different E6410s running both Windows and Linux kernel. So no, it is not a problem of Ubuntu or Linux based OSes but of the E6410 running any OS.
By replacing lid close handling script with sleep button handling script you may have fixed something in your system or particular installation. If your machine fails to resume occassionally running on battery power, it is confirmed that turning off speed-step in BIOS setup does fix it.
Herroux, I also have this problem. Started happening a few months ago, and unfortunately I can't pinpoint any particular change that might indicate a regression. System is a well spec'd E6410: i7 M620, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 3100M, 256GB Samsung PM800 SSD, +webcam, +backlit keyboard, +Dell Wireless 5540 HSPA modem, running Win7 Pro 64.
I've tried BIOS A10 and A11, no help. Haven't yet tried disabling SpeedStep, it might work but it is simply not an acceptable solution for me. I will test it out to confirm the effect though...
What seems to work (no issues for a few days now) for me is selecting a different power profile. I normally use the "Dell" profile, but have found that using the "Extended Battery Life" profile seems to stop the freeze up on resume. I haven't yet had a good look in the options to figure out what the key configuration might be. Especially interesting is that if I suspend whilst on battery then go to AC and resume, I get the freeze. Will test further and report back.
Oh, and I should mention that I have Dell Pro-Support. I intend to make them sort this out, even if it means giving me a whole new machine (all data intact)...
I am on the newest BIOS as well and I get continual issues waking from sleep on battery if speedstep is turned on. Turning off speedstep seems to competely negate the issue. Id recommend taking that step and start enjoying the laptop. It would be interesting to see if someone could get downgraded to an i5 and see if they still encounter the same issue. It is quite annoying that dell has not fixed this yet.
I also tried the recent BIOS with no luck. I haven't had time to go through support channels. Disabling SpeedStep is a poor (but the only) workaround at the moment. The major problem with this is that you then lose processor P-state scaling support and thus also TurboBoost. So you stand to use more power and get lesser performance (particularly for lightly threaded workloads).
I live in-and-out of sleep mode though, usually with multiple VMs active for various development, without sleep mode I would lose about 10 minutes getting my work environment setup again after every reboot, it's a trade-off for the moment.
Seems that the problem which I reported here and to Dell support 2 years ago was resolved by A12 BIOS (maybe already in A11 which I skipped ). My laptop passed 10 consecutive suspend/resume operations with Speed Step enabled. Congrats Dell, you're making records with issue resolution time.
I attempted to update the bios to A12, but claimed I must first update to A09 - which is not on the support web site. Anyone have a URL to the A09?