XPS 15 9550, Thunderbolt NVM firmware issue with Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter

...good point there to try out networking the two with T3 cable. Unfortunately I don't have one, and didn't really had any intention getting one. Hm, if I come across one I will give it a shot, that's about the only thing I didn't try.

I bought one of the "Cable Matters Thunderbolt 3 (20 Gbps) USB-C Cable in Black 6.6 Feet  / 2m" cables off Amazon for around $30 for the TB3 built-in 10GE networking function. It's a passive cable so at 6' it only goes 20 Gpbs, rather than 40 Gpbs, but the 6' is good for networking to my desktop system (on the floor), and since it's a passive cable it doubles as a USB 3.1 Gen 2 cable (which the active cables don't.) If you want the 40 Gbps capability, and don't need 6' length, you might try the "StarTech.com 0.5m Thunderbolt 3 (40Gbps) USB C Cable" off NewEgg -- it's only around $20 and also doubles as  USB 3.1 Gen 2. (I've been able to use both of these cables with an M.2 SATA to USB 3.1 Gen 2 drive enclosure to get full SSD speeds, ~500Mbps data transfers, over the TB3 port on the 9550 -- it's about the only no hassle functionality I've gotten out of the TB3 port AND it's only USB.)

... I would not be surprised if Apple threw something proprietary in there that doesn't work as "standard" with any device.

However, the Apple TB3-TB2 adapter works perfectly with my Windows 10 Intel NUC6i7KYK with Thunderbolt 3 -- so it's not a Apple compatibility with the Windows world problem, it's just a Dell compatibility problem!

Also, these TB3 to TB adapters, when you think about it.. whats going on inside them? They must have their own firmware and controllers... I initially bought Aikito adapter and it didn't work. Then I read on UAD website that they tested with StarTech and so I returned Aikito and got StarTech.. but it seems that adapter is not the problem :)

My thought was that they would pass on one Display Port channel and the PCIe channel, at least x2 of it -- but it looks like none of the adapters pass the Display Port, just the PCIe/Thunderbolt part -- which means if your legacy TB2 chain terminated in your Display Port monitor, to get the same functionality, you'll need a TB3 device with a Display Port out which can then daisy-chain to the TB3-TB2 adapter (assuming the adapters actually work in a daisy-chain rather then only just connected to the computer TB3 port.) It really is amazing how little technical information there is about Thunderbolt 3 -- from anywhere, either Intel or OEMs -- to be able to engineer these connections without some disappointment.

I did get the Apple TB3-TB2 adapter working with the Intel NUC connected to an "AKiTiO Thunder2 Dock" working fine even thought that dock was designed for the Mac and not Windows certified. But, my original goal was to be able to bring home my work XPS 15 9550 and use the adapter to plug it into my home Mac's Thunderbolt chain, which already had Ethernet, sound, external drives, keyboard, mouse, etc.

I was about to give up on the Apple adapter and go for one of the others, but if those don't work either I am really going to regret my Dell purchase, as the XPS 15 9550's Thunderbolt 3 (supposed) functionality was the main reason I switched to the Dell instead of getting a newer Mac.

If I don't get it up and running in next few weeks.. I will have to sell all the TB3 accessories and devices that I got and be much smarter next time.

I'm definitely getting smarter about Dell given this experience. It's quite the thing to be on the Intel communities board and hear nothing but "your system manufacturer will help you" and come here, and to even premium support, where you instead find out, "nope, you're just SoL!"

OK, so Dell says that they won't support TB3 with an Apple device. What about their own devices? I have a TB16 that's suppose to work with the XPS 15 9550. However when I tried to call for support on the TB16 Dell wouldn't even talk to me because my XPS 15 was no longer under warranty! Has anybody got the TB16 to actually work with an XPS 15 9550 and if so how? Sorry - not trying to hijack your thread but just venting about Dell's lack of TB3 support on the XPS 15 9550.

Ok, found TB3 cable this morning. No connection between XPS and either of the two ZBooks.. instant connection between two ZBooks. Lame. However, I never used Ethernet connection between 2 computers before, hence I don't know what is the benefit and what was I supposed to see/do. But yea, they popped up on ZBooks port 2 instantly. XPS on the other hand went full Stevie Wonder on connection.

Ok, found TB3 cable this morning. No connection between XPS and either of the two ZBooks.. instant connection between two ZBooks. Lame. However, I never used Ethernet connection between 2 computers before, hence I don't know what is the benefit and what was I supposed to see/do. But yea, they popped up on ZBooks port 2 instantly. XPS on the other hand went full Stevie Wonder on connection.

I also have an Asus X99 motherboard with a TB3 adapter card (ThunderboltEX 3). It has Thunderbolt 3 (1577) hardware, with PD Firmware version 1.07.00. I thought I tested it with the Apple TB3-TB2 adapter and it didn't work (which is what made me suspect NVM 16), but I'll retest it to see if we can get more data on the compatibility failure to "1575 vs. 1577" /  "PD 1.02 vs PD 1.07" / "NVM 16 vs. NVM 18" patterns.

Well, I retested and the Asus worked. Here's the TB2 AKiTiO dock hanging off the Apple adapter connected to the Asus ThunderboltEX 3 (and the Thunderbolt 3 firmware/driver details for the Asus system):

So, the Apple TB3-TB2 adapter works fine on the Intel NUC6i7KYK with NVM 18 (and PD 1.07), and it works fine on the Asus ThunderboltEX 3 with NVM 16 (and PD 1.07).

However, it still doesn't work on the Dell XPS 15 9550 with NVM 16 (and PD 1.02.06).

I guess NVM 16 isn't the critical problem; maybe PD < 1.07 is.

I wonder if a PD firmware upgrade (to 1.07) could fix the Dell XPS 15 9550 incompatibility, or if that lag in firmware version reflects a lack in hardware/chipset that can't be fixed -- and if Dell simply isn't coming forward with the acknowledgement that the Thunderbolt 3 hardware they designed and sold with the XPS 15 9550, unlike every other hardware I've tested so far, isn't compatible with other Thunderbolt 3 devices.

FWIW, when I plug the Thunderbolt chain (of Apple TB3-TB2 adapter and AKiTiO Thunder Dock 2) into the Dell XPS 15 9550, I get this error:

which when clicked, links to this page:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt628692(v=vs.85).aspx#_5

which offers the "possible cause" of:

• You have connected a device with new USB Type-C features that are not supported by your system.

And again, the exact same Thunderbolt hardware/combo works fine on my two other WIndows 10 Thunderbolt 3 systems, namely:

the Intel NUC6i7KYK

and

an Asus ThunderboltEX 3 in an Asus Sabertooth X99 motherboard.

FWIW so far.. NVM version has nothing to do with it. I have two HP ZBook laptops with different NVM versions and everything is just plug and play. PD version perhaps, but at the same time PD versions depends of the HARDWARE version. PD firmware on 1575 is 1.02.06 where PD firmware on 1577 is 1.07.03 That being said, maybe we are chasing ghosts, maybe 1575 cannot deliver the powers of 1577? If that is the case, I just need to know so I can move on and sell what I can. Its killing my workflow and productivity. And I am DYING to find out what devices actually do work with 1575 PD 1.02.06 if any.

after 3 months, the problem is still.

I tested on my XPS 9350(13 inch) by

• BIOS:
  • 1.4.17
• TB Driver:
  • 16.2.55.275 ,A01
• TB FW:
  • 2.16.01.003 ,A04 by filename
  • 16.2.55.1 in driver panel.

very unhappy.

Also you can install 17.1.64.250 drivers - they are not even mentioned on Intel's website, but just download them from elsewhere and check their digital signatures from Intel and WHQL. I did it on my XPS 9365 - it does not change the fact that Dell has left this model on NVM 9, but it works, and I use Gigabyte Aorus eGPU with AMD R9 Nano installed. Works perfectly despite the software claiming it is not supported. As perfectly as something can work on a 4.5W CPU that is further crippled by Dell.

Guys, Skylake has a maximum NVM version of 16. Kaby Lake is required for anything higher. Afaik.