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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

Hello Chris M...

I'm having the exactly same problem with my U2410 and my new MacBook Pro thunderbolt.

Cold you please look for a answer for us to solve that out. I'm reading lots of the same issue on internet, it is not an isolated case.

I do work with my equipment every day and I can can wait forever for a answer from Dell. I know that you guy's don't care that much for your clients as long they are still buying, but we do need a way to fixed that out.

Please treat us nice and help us....

best regards

Igor Oliveira

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2 Bronze

Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

Hello Chris M...

I'm having the exactly same problem with my U2410 and my new MacBook Pro thunderbolt.

Cold you please look for a answer for us to solve that out. I'm reading lots of the same issue on internet, it is not an isolated case.

I do work with my equipment every day and I can can wait forever for a answer from Dell. I know that you guy's don't care that much for your clients as long they are still buying, but we do need a way to fixed that out.

Please treat us nice and help us....

best regards

Igor Oliveira

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3 Cadmium

Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

Thunderbolt (LightPeak) is a new proprietary interface developed by Intel with Apple being the first to market (circa 2011). It combines PCIe and DisplayPort into a serial interface using a miniDP output connector and looks to become a standard.

Also, miniDP (circa 2008) was developed by Apple for their product but was quickly adopted into the DP standard and used in graphics cards which predates the Thunderbolt era.

Many manufacturers made miniDP-DVI, miniDP-DVI (dual link), miniDP-DP, miniDP-HDMI and miniDP-VGA adapters for use with the old miniDP ports on graphics cards (pre thunderbolt era). And Apple also make their own miniDP adapters for use with graphics cards (pre thunderbolt era) and for use with Thunderbolt era macs and Apple will probably make variants for post TB miniDP adapters. It may be called the same adapter but really it's Apple and Oranges and the consumer is the fruit left in between.

In this instance there seems to be poor standards adherence/understanding and despite claims of backward compatibility, many many issues seem to exist (even for apple to apple products). And Apple are notorious for doing their own thing by making small but incompatible changes to an industry standard (the HDD being Apples recent migration from the norm, Apple bios graphics cards are another and the list probably goes on).

So we have a new interface by Intel, we have Apple as the first to market and we have confusion as to what version of a miniDP adapter will work with what version of equipment (pre/post TB). And we have Apple's behavior of the odd non compliance with some standards as a backdrop.

By now i hope you can see the problem. Can Dell help? Maybe, but it seems a bigger issue than Dell itself and would Dell want to fix a problem that Apple/Intel/Industry may have poorly engineered - I would say not. It's best for consumers to recognize the situation and avoid this mess (until optic fiber thunderbolt is standardized and shown to work).

Though this interface had promise, it should have had a completely different connector for a start and should not have used a lightning bolt as its identifying symbol (as this is normally the symbol for power feeds or danger and should have remain so - queue the nutter that tries to push a power feed into their thunderbolt port frying their machine). It's a shamozzle and i will stick with full size DP connectors for the foreseeable future.

I don't mean to be rude but if your concerned that the Dell monitor has issues, use a HDMI, DP or DVI(dual link) cable and test it on a PC without any adapters. If it works on the PC and doesn't on your Mac, then consider returning the Dell monitor (as not fit for use) and buy an Apple monitor (thus avoiding the miniDP adapter shamozzle).

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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

Apple's Thunderbolt Display doesn't play nice with Mini DisplayPort states:

Adding a miniDP display at the end of the chain works with other Thunderbolt peripherals that have downstream ports, so it's not a technical limitation of spec. Why Apple added this limitation we cannot say, but it could be construed as a move designed to sell more $999 Thunderbolt displays.

UPDATE: The truth may even be stranger still. Apple's KB article unequivocally states that "Mini DisplayPort displays will not light up if connected to the Thunderbolt port on an Apple Thunderbolt Display." However, Macworld Labs honcho James Galbraith was able to get a 27" Cinema Display to work by connecting it to a downstream port on a Promise Pegasus RAID. In other words, when the chain was configured as MacBook Air > Thunderbolt Display > Pegasus RAID > 27" Cinema Display, all four worked as expected.

Though this at least demonstrates that it is possible to drive a miniDP display connected to a Thunderbolt Display, it still looks like a needlessly confusing limitation to require another Thunderbolt device in the chain. Furthermore, why it doesn't work when directly connected is yet another mystery.

And from the horses mouth Apple Thunderbolt Display (27-inch): Connection options for Thunderbolt Macs states:

Mini DisplayPort displays will not light up if connected to the Thunderbolt port of an Apple Thunderbolt Display (27-inch). Displays connected via Mini DisplayPort video adapter to the Thunderbolt port of an Apple Thunderbolt Display (27-inch) will not work. Connect Mini DisplayPort displays directly to a Thunderbolt port on a Thunderbolt-capable Mac or to a compatible Thunderbolt peripheral. If the Mini DisplayPort display is connected to a Thunderbolt peripheral, the display should be connected at the end of the Thunderbolt chain.

So if Apple says you can't do something with their equipment, how can you expect Dell to solve it for you emoticon.Confused.title

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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

@Skylarking: But that's for daisy-chaining monitors. This post is in regards to simply interfacing the U2410 directly to the Macbook Pro.

For what it's worth, I logged this bug with Apple about 2 months ago. I encourage everyone having the problem to do the same thing:

https://bugreport.apple.com/

Hopefully we can get them to sort it out since it's obvious Dell is unwilling to chime in.

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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

@FlimFlam808, I know what this post (and the links that i provided) are about but you don't seem to acknowledge any issue regarding the debacle created by Apple that is miniDP/Thunderbolt.

Wanting Dell to fix Apples issues is unreasonable, especially when Apple themselves state that miniDP monitors can't be connected to thunderbolt ports on the Apple mac laptop (an Apple design choice it seems). It's this Apple statement that should be an indication to you to expect problems when connecting a Thunderbolt port on your laptop to a (non Apple) DP monitor using a miniDP-DP adapter (regardless who makes the adapter).

The problem seems to be Apples' design choice to limit such interconnect, the fact that no certified Thunderbolt->DP adapters exists doesn't help but is not so relevant. This seems to be the point you fail to, or don't want to understand.

The issue would likely not have existed if Intel/Apple chose a different and physically incompatible port to carry thunderbolt rather than reuse miniDP. Then you wouldn't expect it to work without an appropriate Thunderbolt-DP adapter (though this wouldn't resolve Apples desire to up-sell you another monitor).

Dell sells it's monitors with HDMI, Dual link DVI and/or DP connectors on them, and they do work with these connectors (though some issues do exist). If you buy an adapter which doesn't work, it's best to take it up with the seller of the adapter. If no adapter will work for you with this monitor, return the monitor and get a refund is my best advice.

Alternatively return the Mac to Apple with a clear explanation that this is happening because of their artificially restricting design choices that require a new Apple Thunderbolt monitor. If enough people do that Apple may change it's ways though i doubt it.

If you have some technical info that points to the Dell monitor not conforming to DP spec, then by all means lets all hammer Dell over this and get it fixed but otherwise it's an Apple issue by design (as it's their desire to push you towards a new Apple thunderbolt display it seems).

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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

@skylarking But again, you misread what you quoted. The links you reference are speaking about daisy chaining to a Thunderbolt display. Please re-read it:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4885

"Mini DisplayPort displays will not light up if connected to the Thunderbolt port of an Apple Thunderbolt Display (27-inch)."

Apple also states:

"Displays connected via Mini DisplayPort video adapter to the Thunderbolt port of an Apple Thunderbolt Display (27-inch) will not work."

But from that same link, Apple then says:

"Connect Mini DisplayPort displays directly to a Thunderbolt port on a Thunderbolt-capable Mac or to a compatible Thunderbolt peripheral."

So they in fact *are* acknowledging Mini DisplayPort will work connected directly to the Thunderbolt display of the MacBook Pro, which is what this thread is specifically about.

And in any case, as to a solution, I've already suggested anyone interested in finding a solution file a bug report with Apple. And I'll re-post that link below:

https://bugreport.apple.com

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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

Yes the referenced links in my second post are about daisy chaining and highlight one interconnect problem (probably could have been clearer why i added the second post). Apple pushes the daisy chaining feature of Thunderbolt yet it's own Thunderbolt display won't allow daisy chaining to another of its own miniDP displays. This should be an indication that all is not well with Thunderbolt/miniDP/Apple. Also, Apples own statement talk only of connecting the thunderbolt port on the Mac Pro directly to the miniDP port of the display (which will work) but conspicuously mentions nothing of adapters for use with non Apple monitors (as anything non Apple doesn't seems to exist).

I know the thread is specifically about connecting a thunderbolt port on your Mac Pro to a DVI or DP port on a Dell monitor via an adapter and that you ask if Dell is aware that Apple users are having issues. But i saw it as an Apple problem and maybe i digressed just a little...

Going back to the beginning and taking a different tack. emoticon.Smile.title

DVI-A/D/I is a multifaceted interface that can carry analog, single link or dual link digital signals (which can also be HDCP or non HDCP compliant just to make it fun for the consumer to learn all the sub standards). A miniDP-DVI adapter can be single or dual link DVI as consequence but cable and adapter are best paired.

Now, a single link DVI handles 1920x1080@60Hz while dual link DVI handles 2560x1600@60Hz, both at nominal 24bit color space. If you use more than 24bits, you need dual link DVI for even the 1920x1080@60Hz, hence best to have dual link cable and adapter in all cases.

The specs for the U2410 list it as supporting 1.07billion color panel which = 30bits but oddly the spec also shows what looks to be a single link DVI connectors on the monitor itself !

So,

1. Is the Apple miniDP-DVI adapter dual link DVI?
2. Is the Dell DVI cable dual link DVI?

If no to either, try the dual link DVI type for both as this seems to be the cause of many others problems. Does this now work?
If it doesn't work, what happens if you reduce the color depth on the laptop to something at or below 24bits, does it now work?

3. Have you tried the miniDP-DP cable with your laptop and another non Dell monitor (the cable could be faulty)? Doe it work with the non Dell monitor? At what color depth?

The above may give us some more info that could resolve where the issues lay.

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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

To be honest, You might be right and probably would be a Apple fault...

Anyway a do need a way to solve this out, if Dell barely answer something on web, could you imagine Apple.

I use this monitor and computer for my work and if I live in USA I had probably bought another monitor or whatever. The point it is that on my country everything cost twice as much... so much taxes.

Anyway, if someone find a way to make the Dell U2410 works on a MacBook Pro Thunderbolt, I will appreciate if you share.

Best regards to all

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Re: U2410 & Thunderbolt Issues

I got mine to work by using this adapter- "Accell B112B-001B UltraAV Mini DisplayPort/DisplayPort(f) Adapter (10 Inches, Black)"

It's not in a RGB colour space, which is less than ideal, and haven't tried to calibrate it yet. It's in some video/tv space ypbpr, or something-

I think performance might be limited by the hardware itself- in this case, the adapter and cable combination. Altogether, there might be four different manufacturers in the system, including apple and dell, and each of their products might actually work perfectly, as long as you don't expect to connect them to each other, or expect  to get any assistance beyond being pointed towards articles cut and pasted from the Internet. If you'd like to see a good example of 'upselling' try ordering a computer from dell...

Anyway, hope this helps, don't blame me if it doesn't- I can't really help, beyond this-

Joseph

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