jerryyyyy
2 Iron

Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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I have a unit with a M.2 SSD and have cloned the disk to a Samsung EVO 850 as a backup.  If I put the 850 into the second disk drive SATA connector it will boot, but it no longer sees the M.2 partition.  Pull out the 850 and it boots from the M2..

Anyone have any ideas how to see the M.2 and boot from it but keep the 850 there as a convenient backup? 

Dell support has no ideas.

Have latest updates etc.  UEFI boot.

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savvy2
4 Beryllium

Re: Optiple 3070 "I have Acronis and that works OK if the disk is not Bitlocker'

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you now learned that cloning is not for you, at all, given all your needs, 2 at same time and all that.

then Bitlocker,  My guess is your Acronis is very very old, why not upgrade it first then test it, using  spare SSD

do the true image restore to a spare blank SSD, (for speed ) of time is on hand a  spare HDD.

test the recovery !!!!!

 

 

"I have Acronis and that works OK if the disk is not Bitlockered"

the whole purpose of bitlocker is to fail any theft, of PC or HDD, that is what it does.

there are sector by sector HDD docking stations that do this( OMG SLOW) that do clones, but no good for you.

Some do this and park the drive on a shelf.  or of SITE storage. (rotated in fact)

Acronis does images to the cloud and is Acronis encrypted.

really why not talk to them?  it is one of the best IMAGE tools,  PC MAG #1 and all that...

Bobco says:

Mike, Steve is correct.  Long story short, if you have a bitlockered machine, Acronis can only back it up while it is booted into Windows and "unlocked" at that point.  You can then image it with Acronis, but the image will also be "unlocked" in this state.  Restoring that image will produce an "unlocked" machine and then you need to enable bitlocker on it again.  There is no way around this with imaging utilities.  If there was, that would defeat the purpose of using bitlocker in the first place. 

(me) and needs to be the newest version of  TIBU, ture image backup.!!!

 

 

I am not Dell, I am retired from this industry since 2009,

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10 Replies
Tesla1856
6 Thallium

Re: Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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@jerryyyyy wrote:

1. I have a unit with a M.2 SSD and have cloned the disk to a Samsung EVO 850 as a backup. 

If I put the 850 into the second disk drive SATA connector it will boot, but it no longer sees the M.2 partition.  Pull out the 850 and it boots from the M2..

2. Anyone have any ideas how to see the M.2 and boot from it but keep the 850 there as a convenient backup? 

 


1. This behavior is normal and "by design". Cloning is only for setup and repairs. It is not for daily backups.

2. You "Image whole machine to a file" (with Verify option ON) . A program like Macrium Reflect allows you to setup a schedule and do Differential, Incremental or Full Backups.

You can store these backups files on a SSD if you want to (but that is not a requirement) . Also, not sure why you want the backups inside the computer (in a fire or theft they would be destroyed as well). 


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jerryyyyy
2 Iron

Re: Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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Thanks, the problem is not the backups, which I can do many ways, the problem is that I would like both the primary and secondary (backup) disks visible.  The BIOS/UEFI does not show both disks if the second disk is mounted. 

I could show a screenshot, but the EVO disk is listed twice and the M.2 not at all in the boot options. 

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7 Thorium

Re: Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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Bios is not a boot manager.

The bcd must be changed so that when it starts it knows which drive is the one to boot from.


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Tesla1856
6 Thallium

Re: Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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@jerryyyyy wrote:

the problem is that I would like both the primary and secondary (backup) disks visible. 


If the other disk it a true clone of the boot-disk ... it is not a Secondary disk. Sounds like you are trying to have TWO PRIMARY DISKS, which is not allowed on a UEFI system, AFAIK.


Registered Microsoft Partner and Apple Developer
- Like many of you, I can appreciate a good game-engine.
- I answer questions here, but I'm not a Dell employee.
- Consider giving posts you like a "thumbs-up"
- Posting models-numbers and software versions speeds trouble-shooting.
- Click "Accept as Solution" button on any post that answers your question best.
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savvy2
4 Beryllium

Re: Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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tesla nails this

you cloned the disk wrong, better software (migration) handles this correctly

you can not have 2 disks with same UUID< on them that is having 2 identical UUID disks same on one PC..

so don't do that. with an identical UUID/GUID, on both,  (illegal)

Good clones like yours it sits on a shelf not in SATA2 port. (backup purpose)

Good clone software at the get go asks you to do advance mode and have the target set to a new UUID.

that is what you did not do.

and there is worse if Using UEFI, modes (full blown)

not only that but the good software tells at the end, you must remove the source disk a power down and leave it out.( if not UUID changed)

 

I am not Dell, I am retired from this industry since 2009,
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jerryyyyy
2 Iron

Re: Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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Thanks, so I need to take a deep breath and not expect to mount two identical disks...

The reason I am cloning the disks using Samsung's software is that most of the backup solutions I have tried for W10 seem unreliable.  The legacy W7 backup and restore does not seem to work reliably with W10 in my hands.  I have Acronis and that works OK if the disk is not Bitlockered... if it is Bitlockered I cannot get it to work... they say decrypt and backup... great. 

I have my working files backed up to OneDrive and CrashPlan so if I have to I can reconstruct clerical work computers pretty easily, but I have some that do scientific work with a lot of 3rd party software and settings tweaked that I clone as a backup.  These are not BitLockered.  With the Samsung clone I know I can get back to these systems.

Thanks for your help,

JY

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savvy2
4 Beryllium

Re: Optiple 3070 Trouble Selecting Boot

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why not ask MICROsoft this directly, as you know w10 has  all new rules now and for sure UEFI.

if you wiki UEFI, what do you read,  it tells you they do not want folks copying or cloning your data.

it is  a new set of security rules,  this is what it is.  you cant' change that, and the rules on UUID serialized boots  are long been in forced, even w7. (  but can go to full legacy mode, on some PC)

Talk to microsoft on their forum.  and keep in mind only that know what the rules will be for the next major version of W10 beyond, v1909,.

then consider this you best BACKUP software, has to track that, and match all that?  yah , not easy to know.

I understand what you want.

not just data backup but full blown APPS and full  setup of same.

only clone does that I think.  why not buy software that can do that, no OLD BUT CURRENT> (mirror mode)

there are like 10 companies that do this.

 

there are 3 issues here UEFI etc.

PCs stolen.

PCs HDD stolen

and guy in the middle theft, they remove HDD when you are not looking and clone it and put it back (mr. sneaky)

all 3 are serious issues, for businesses, and you are trying to fight this,  MS is the best people to ask.

for now and next major release of w10. 

I have no idea how your PCs are set up in BIOS, not at all. UEFI wise, (secure boot is hardest)

if using secure boot, (are you) here is how to do that. (backup and recover)

they do the backup off then go back to secure.

on recovery the same thing in reverse.

and bitlocker is even more hard. (study this carefully if used!?)

also check out ACRONIS backup TRUE IMAGE  to cloud. (start reading here , and is very accurate)

 

 

 

I am not Dell, I am retired from this industry since 2009,
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savvy2
4 Beryllium

Re: Optiple 3070 "I have Acronis and that works OK if the disk is not Bitlocker'

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you now learned that cloning is not for you, at all, given all your needs, 2 at same time and all that.

then Bitlocker,  My guess is your Acronis is very very old, why not upgrade it first then test it, using  spare SSD

do the true image restore to a spare blank SSD, (for speed ) of time is on hand a  spare HDD.

test the recovery !!!!!

 

 

"I have Acronis and that works OK if the disk is not Bitlockered"

the whole purpose of bitlocker is to fail any theft, of PC or HDD, that is what it does.

there are sector by sector HDD docking stations that do this( OMG SLOW) that do clones, but no good for you.

Some do this and park the drive on a shelf.  or of SITE storage. (rotated in fact)

Acronis does images to the cloud and is Acronis encrypted.

really why not talk to them?  it is one of the best IMAGE tools,  PC MAG #1 and all that...

Bobco says:

Mike, Steve is correct.  Long story short, if you have a bitlockered machine, Acronis can only back it up while it is booted into Windows and "unlocked" at that point.  You can then image it with Acronis, but the image will also be "unlocked" in this state.  Restoring that image will produce an "unlocked" machine and then you need to enable bitlocker on it again.  There is no way around this with imaging utilities.  If there was, that would defeat the purpose of using bitlocker in the first place. 

(me) and needs to be the newest version of  TIBU, ture image backup.!!!

 

 

I am not Dell, I am retired from this industry since 2009,

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jerryyyyy
2 Iron

Re: Optiple 3070 "I have Acronis and that works OK if the disk is not Bitlo

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Thanks, you have filled in the details for me.  I have gravitated to Acronis and their cloning software works too.  The replacement disk is a Samsung and I have never had their cloning software fail, so using that. 

I now understand in more depth the issues.. the man in the middle is a nice touch! I guess this is the world we live in. 

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