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Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Did anyone else notice that one of the "new features" that this cards have is "• Blocking of non Dell certified drives being used with PERC H700 or PERC H800"

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/perc-technical-guidebook.pdf  page 9

I understand that if Dell thinks for production I should only be using their drives but what happens if I want to test things I also have to go out and but the expensive Dell certified drives? And what happens if my server goes down and in an emergency I have to ghost my drives again I have to use only their drives??

This bothers me so much that I'm actually thinking of going away from Dell:emotion-9:

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

 

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25 Replies
7 Thorium

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Yes, while on the surface I don't like the sound of it, the truth is that "Dell-certified" drives have a special firmware on them that allows them to respond correctly to advanced requests made by the controllers so that operation of the machine can be guaranteed.  Having been a technical analyst for Dell servers, I can tell you that many issues arise from the use of non-certified drives.  So, while I don't like it, I can understand it.  Besides, Dell doesn't make the drives - they are made the top drive manufacturers, but in order to guarantee compatibility/reliability, they put a Dell-specific FW on them.  Just a thought 🙂

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

I understand why they want people to use "Dell-certified" drives, but to totally BLOCK the use of NON Dell-certified drives is taking it way overboard! especially because they are not even using their own drives but they are charging like they made their own drives, the mark up on "Dell-certified" drives is about 10 times the amount of regular drives emoticon.Angry.title

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4 Germanium

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

On the other hand I have rarely use Dell certified drives, except during warranty, over the last 20 years and have had just about zip issues using new retail drives. This is mostly a money making scam for Dell.

 

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Just tried using brand new Hitachi HDS72202 2TB SATA drive...  and sure its detected and listed as unsupported in Server Administrator....  but in the Integrated BIOS manager it marked as BLOCKED....  lovely great....  what proprietary nonsense it is…   I suppose they trying to sell more drives…  I think they going to figure out that they will be selling less servers like that…  A) they don’t have 2TB drive now and B) who will pay for this drive $900 when you can get drive plus tray for less than $170…

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4 Germanium

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

" I think they going to figure out that they will be selling less servers like that…"

Agree, in the long run there will be many angry customers who will switch to another supplier.

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

I just found this out the hard way on a newly-delivered R710. Trying to reject the unit back to Dell - failing that, I'll get the H700 changed out for a PERC6/i. Looks like Dell will lose our business once the PERC6 line is no longer offered.

Philip

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Time to dust off the HP reps business card....

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

I just verified that an R710 with a PERC6 *will* initialise a VD on non-Dell HDDs. Buys us some time to find an alternative vendor.

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3 Argentum

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

This are not good news.

I always use certified Dell drives, but when something fails and the hotspare is been used, I put a extra HDD from any shop to have extra security.

Also I was using intel X25-E on a testing server and would be imposible with that.

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2 Bronze

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

It's worth mentioning that some of Dell's drives carry a markup of over 600%!

EG: a 2TB SATA drive, with no caddy (just cabled in) is £740 if you configure a PowerEdge T410 on Dell's website. I can get the same thing from a local supplier for £100.

Additionally, the Dell standard warranty is only 1 year, whereas commodity drives typically carry 3 - 5 years.

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

I would like to see a reply from someone from Dell.

It's not a nice strategy at all.

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7 Thorium

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

I'm guessing you will not receive the type of answer you are looking for on this forum.  Most of the Dell employees on this forum are here during their work or personal time - voluntarily, and it is very likely that they won't be able to answer your question (beyond what conjecture has already been shared).  Your best bet to receive some kind of explanation or comment on this policy, is to contact your TAM (Technical Account  Manager) and have them attempt to get something for you.

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4 Germanium

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Definitely would be interesting to hear from Dell.  Come on Dell, step up to the plate....personally I would love to hear from the person who who came up with this brilliant idea.

 If Dell uses the point of a small number of drives from manufacturers causing issues, I have no problem acceptting Dell's refusing support with any "uncertified" drives in their equipement... fine with me, as I have had 2 issues in >20 years.

Another point....given my array based servers often run for over 5 years, it is extremely unlikely (nearly impossible) Dell will maintain a surplus of older drives.. then what do we do?  how much will a drive cost in 4 years, double, possible triple the already high price.  

Sounds like it would be economical to purchase a corresponding LsiLogic once the warranty period is close to ending . 

We used to deal with this propriety  nonsense with IBM in the 1980's-90s, and IBM lost an incredible amount of business in that period due to it.. Maintain this policy and you will get away with it for a short period, but will pay for it for 20 years, as did IBM.

 Maybe it just better to look into other PC and server suppliers.

Foolish move Dell...

Come on Dell, a great many purchasers/IT folk would love to hear from you.

 

Found this.... grab your shovels.....

"Why Customers Should Insist on DELL™ Hard Drives for Enterprise Systems "

"A Dell Point of View Summary"  

 

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/dell-hard-drives-pov.pdf

 

 

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Foolish move Dell...

Definitely will lose in the market, make it right  or it will be too late.

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7 Thorium

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

I read your post and can tell you that it was from the word you used instead of 'crummy'.  Much to Dell's credit, they allow blasting of their product and methods in a public forum when done in a professional and civilized way 🙂

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

ONCE AGAIN SHAME ON THE DELL MODERATOR!!!

This time they deleted my post with a claim that my: "post contains language that we believe reveals non-public information about Dell or another company or person."

Of course that is patently absurd since the server I bought specifically reports the name "LSI" on post of the computer and the H700 BIOS -- this is therefore obviously public information -- and also if you read the label slapped onto the face of the hard disk the server came with it says plainly on it that the hard disk is made by "SAMSUNG" for Dell.  Again, public information!!!  Nothing I said is "non-public". 

So unless Dell can be specific please, here is my post again:

==========================

Careful.  Not only is Dell censoring what hard disks we can use, but they are censoring what we can write about them.  I made the below post yesterday and they deleted it, supossedly for bad language!

I am an IT Consultant who switched to Dell servers for my clients about 10 or so years ago.  I had just taken delivery of a new T610 for a client and cracked the box open and replaced the hard disks with brand new Seagate Constellation (Enterprise class) RAID certified hard disks.  THEY ARE BLOCKED!  This is absolutely absurd and I am planning on sending the server back to Dell.  Their H700 controller is nothing more than a private labeled LSI controller and the hard disks the system came with were nothing more than crummy private labeled Samsung hard disks.  For Dell to pretend that they are doing something special with this hardware is a bold faced LIE!  This is all about making money and restricting what their customers can do with the hardware their customers buy.  What is worse, when you configure your server on Dell's website they do not make a disclosure (at least I saw none) stating that the controller will only function with Dell private labeled hard disks.  Further, they should not be marketing their controller as SATA if it will not function with all SATA compliant drives!

What is next?  Making us buy our blank CD media from Dell as private label media "certified" to work in their CD burners.  This is a fraud of the worst kind and they truly deserve to be taken to task on this restrictive and ridiculous practice.

I represent several dozen clients all of whom have bought Dell servers at my direction over the years.  This is stopping immediately.  I will not ever buy another Dell product just on principle, since there can be no justification for forcing us to pay them higher margins for private labeled product. 

It is ironic that Novell tried this same thing (HA HA - also with Samsung hardware) back in 1985 when they forced their channel to buy Novell servers which were nothing more than private labeled Samsung servers which Novell charged double for.

Dell - are you so ignorant that you do not learn from history!

As a 30 year verteran of the IT industry, my memory runs long and you have now succeeded in losing a once loyal customer.

Tom Shubert

e-mail: tom@tomshubert.com

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Why dell will not reply to address the issue instead of deleting their customer’s posts...  i would imagine it is easy to fix with just a basic firmware update

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Just to clarify.  I spent an hour on the phone last night with a Dell tech who was at first unfamiliar with the H700 controller.  Then I downloaded the latest firmware from this month -- last week in fact.  It still "BLOCKS" non-Dell BRAND drives.  I tried both Seagate Constellation drives (RAID CERTIFIED Enterprise class disks) and Western Digital YS Series disks (also RAID CERTIFIED Enterprise class disks).  Again, they all show as "BLOCKED" in the controller console STATUS.  Only the Dell branded Samsung disk was unblocked.

When I questioned Dell 2nd tier support they clarified that indeed the controller will ONLY work with Dell BRANDED disks.

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

This is a bit concerning, although more in principal than practice.  My company wouldn't have any problems purchasing replacement drives from Dell, and considering that we have support contracts to handle this, again, it's not likely to be an issue.

For the little shops, though... this could be pretty painful.  One of Dell's initial strengths and something that allowed them to grow & quickly react to the evolving hardware market was it's use of semi-generic hardware.  Granted, the server market has always been filled with custom components, but the ability to mix & match commodity parts is something that allows smaller customers to manage their costs & tweak performance as needed.

I guess Dell was just tempted too much by those huge margins that SAN vendors enjoy with their "certified" generic components.  I mean, if I told you that you could take a $100 1TB, repackage it & sell it for $500 and customers would blindly pay that much for it, you'd be tempted too, right?  Ok, not all customers are that ignorant..... so maybe you could make it a requirement?  Brilliant!  Guaranteed, controlled margin!

 

 

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

This is really bad. I just wanted to order a batch of R410 servers containing the H700 controller. I won't.

Trying to force customers to buy harddisks for obscene prices is not as clever as DELL appears to think. These customers won't come back.

Such a behaviour might be legal, but I'd feel cheated by DELL and I am glad I didn't fall into this trap.

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Wow, thanks so much for posting this. I was configuring a 12-drive R510 (buying the base server and was going to add high end SAS HD's purchased separately). I googled the H700 to double-check it's performance and came across this doozy. What a headache. Now I need to find another manufacturer. Seems like every time I buy a dell i say it will be the last time. Then a year goes by and I forget about the pain. Glad I prevented the pain this time. How does a once-great company get so bad?

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7 Gold

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

The latest firmware (released a week or so ago) 'unlocks' the raid controllers to allow any SAS and/or SATA drives. Your system probably wouldn't ship with it for a month or 2, but you can upgrade to the latest firmware when you receive the system.

Member since 2003

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2 Bronze

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

Got a link to some "official" notification?

Also does it mean SATA 3Gbps drives can be used in an MD1200/MD1220?

Is the H700 still artificially limited to 16drive RAID volumes?

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Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

This is a bit concerning, although more in principal than practice. My company wouldn't have any problems purchasing replacement drives from Dell, and considering that we have support contracts to handle this, again, it's not likely to be an issue.

For the little shops, though... this could be pretty painful. One of Dell's initial strengths and something that allowed them to grow & quickly react to the evolving hardware market was it's use of semi-generic hardware. Granted, the server market has always been filled with custom components, but the ability to mix & match commodity parts is something that allows smaller customers to manage their costs & tweak performance as needed.

I guess Dell was just tempted too much by those huge margins that SAN vendors enjoy with their "certified" generic components. I mean, if I told you that you could take a $100 1TB, repackage it & sell it for $500 and customers would blindly pay that much for it, you'd be tempted too, right? Ok, not all customers are that ignorant..... so maybe you could make it a requirement? Brilliant! Guaranteed, controlled margin!


It's good for reference, Many thanks to your description! Now I got it.
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3 Silver

Re: Upcoming PERC H700 and PERC H800 Cards

I am new to posting on the Dell forums but I came across this thread and didn’t see an answer posted and I wanted to post regarding the blocking of non-Dell certified hard drives on the H700 and H800. When the controllers were initially released the firmware blocked all non-Dell certified hard drives. However as of firmware revision 12.3.0-0032 released on 7-6-2010 non-Dell certified hard drives are no longer be blocked, this is listed as item # 7 under the Fixes and Enhancements section for the firmware update. There are newer firmware updates than this release so I suggest updating to the latest revisions. I have listed those below.

 

 

H700

 

H800

 <ADMIN NOTE: Broken link has been removed from this post by Dell>

The versions that unblocked the drives can be found here

H700

 

<ADMIN NOTE: Broken link has been removed from this post by Dell>

H800

 

 

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