Dell Venue 11 Pro (5130) Shaking mobile keyboard hinge causes unexpected shutdown (system power failure).

Hi GREEIRDS,

I have also had exactly what you describe happen in the past as well. I would open the lid from what should be sleep mode, and it actually had completely shut down. Sometimes it also said that same error.

Could it be the same root issue as the shaking? I think it could be an issue with the 12 pin spring contacts that connect the tablet and keyboard. Maybe while opening/closing they jitter and disconnect for a brief moment which causes it to crash. (This is only my speculation, it could be some software issue too).

If there's no advice from Dell within the week, I'm going to try and return my mobile keyboard for a new one.  

Can you do me a favor and compare your contact pins to the ones I have in this picture?

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=72BBADB7B525D8F0!965&authkey=!AOVKF67rl_MqqT0&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

I think they should be all the same size, but some of mine appear too short.

Also, you might want to check your tablet pin targets too. 

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=72BBADB7B525D8F0!952&authkey=!ADgUh0p7z0O4QH4&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

The right side of mine is recessed, while the left sticks out farther. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be so radically different.

If you or someone could compare that would be great, thanks :) I let you know next week if a different keyboard fixes the issue or not.

I have a similar problem. Mines is not dealing with shaking though. My system all updated as well.

1. Close the lid and keep Windows in connected standby.

2. Come back few hours later, press the power button,and nothing happens, my tablet completely lost power.

3. Hold power button, windows start up, look in event logs: "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly."

Test 1: Removing all connected standby apps, did not help. :(

Test 2: Refreshing Windows, did not help. :(

Test 3: Keeping my tablet undocked from the mobile keyboard for a week, did help!! No system crashes or power lost. :)

Dell needs to fix this!

You might be on to something. I just checked and its different from yours. My room is too dark at the moment to take pictures but I can describe it.

Keyboard facing me normally. Left pins from left to right:
1 = Shortest
2 = Mid level
3 = Mid level
4 = Mid level
5 = Mid level
6 = Mid level

Right pins from left to right:
1 = Longest
2 = Longest
3 = Mid level
4 = Mid level
5 = Mid level
6 = Shortest

Left holes with tablet screen facing up:
1 = High
2 = High
3 = Mid
4 = Low
5 = Low
6 = Very low

Right holes from left to right:
1 = High
2 = High
3 = High
4 = High
5 = High
6 = High

Thanks for checking that. It seems the relative pin sizes on the keyboard are the same for us. 

As for the tablet holes, we seem to have a different pattern. My left holes are all flush with plastic case, but my right holes are all recessed into the frame by about 1mm (is this what you meant by high?).

I do now also notice some clicking noise when I hyperextend the screen backwards and then bring it towards me. I'm not sure if that’s the sound of a pin snapping back that got popped out, or some other thing.

However, I'm definitely sure it has something to do with this hinge, because just an hour ago I repeated the crash / power failure twice by using the procedure I outlined in the first post. Your problem of opening/closing the case would be a very similar scenario, because you exert a lot of pressure on the hinge during that in a similar fashion.

I'm out of ideas at the moment, but I'll let you know if I come up with something. So far the workaround for me is to always keep the AC power plugged in before moving the hinge. I haven't noticed a shutdown so far with this, although the keyboard itself sometimes disconnects instead due to the hinge. This can be fixed by removing the tablet and then re-docking it.

Hey Greeirds,

I think I may have found something relevant to our case. Check out this close-up of a Venue 11 pro contact pad:

http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Dell-Venue-11-Pro-Hands-On-029-1280x720.jpg

http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Dell-Venue-11-Pro-Hands-On-004-1280x720.jpg

Compare again to my contacts pads:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=72BBADB7B525D8F0!952&authkey=!ADgUh0p7z0O4QH4&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

Theirs are definitely flush with the case, am I right? I think both of our tablet devices have some contacts that are not flush with the case, but rather are recessed.

It is my belief that our recessed contacts actually cause the intermittent disconnect issue.

• With FLUSH contact pads, the pin can slide back and forth across it and will still maintain contact.
• However, with RECESSED contact pads, the pin will "jump out" of the hole, breaking contact.

On Tuesday, I will receive some conductive copper tape. I will tape rectangles across each contact so the pins wont disconnect when they wobble out of the hole. This will either prove or disprove my theory about what is causing the issue.

Hello again, sorry for all the posts, but I got some info that might be useful for a permanent solution. I found some disassembly videos that Dell has for the venue.

How to remove the bottom case

http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/70/videos~en/documents~venue-11-pro-5130-bottom-case-pcb-holder-disassembly-video.aspx

How to remove the docking board

Take a close look at the last part of the last video, you can see how the contact pads slide out of the plastic holes. It is possible that inside there the board isn't seated properly, so it causes the contacts to be recessed. It may be possible to fix the issue by opening the device up as shown in these videos and re-seating the board properly so the pads are flush with the plastic case.

But I will try the copper tape first to make sure this is the actual issue before I do anything drastic.

Update: copper tape came in. Unfortunately the adhesive side was non-conductive, so it made things more difficult. I still managed some ad-hoc solution. I had to fold the tape in half so each side was just bare, un-adhesive copper.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=72BBADB7B525D8F0!974&authkey=!AFf0lG4LZBx9EgA&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

I tested with it docked in the mobile keyboard.

• I was able to still crash it once when I shook really hard,
  • The copper stripes are still not physically attached to the pads, so it can stand to reason why it still may lose contact.
• But overall, it is less prone to shutting down unexpectedly with these stripes on it.
  • I was able to open and close the lid rigorously many times without it shutting down.
  • I can shake the hinge back and forth with the force that would previously make it shut down.

• I don't recommend anyone to repeat what I did because there is the risk of shorting two of the pins together and damaging the device.

I'm still not 100% sure of the cause, but I'm willing to move to the next step of re-seating the docking board so the contact pads are flush. I ordered an ifixit "iOpener" kit which will help me remove the back case better without damaging it. I'll post the result probably next week.

I wonder why you guys invest so much time in finding out the cause instead of returning this <ADMIN NOTE: Substitute character removed as per TOU> to Dell. But obviously they not care this problem here at least in the forums.

Well I don't own a keyboard (yet) but as electrical engineer im probably can give you some useful hints. My first guess would be contact problems as well although it not neccessarily has to be contact area - could also be a bad solder joint. The recessed contact pads in this case simply seem to be poor manufacturing quality rather than designed to be that way (for example to make contact with ground first when you attach accessories to initialize them properly). The spring-loaded pogo-pins should easily cover the gap and give at least good mechanical contact. But the recessed pads catch (and hold) dust and dirt more easily.

I would suggest you get a Fibreglass Pen and use it to clean the pads and pogo-pins. They are cheap and very useful to solve all kind of connection problems on battery terminals, Switches, cables etc.

@Sebr: Yeah I agree with you. I'm in ECE myself, so I couldn't resist figuring it out.

I'll just summarize the symptoms and solutions here for others to reference.

Symptoms

• Tablet intermittently and unexpectedly shuts down (screen goes black, tablet becomes in a powered off state).
  
  
• Crashing only occurs when using mobile keyboard (with battery) while docked, and while the tablet is drawing power from the keyboard battery only.
  
  
• Crashing occurs when tablet hinged is moved with some pressure, such as adjusting screen angle or opening/closing tablet.
  
  
• Docking contact pads on bottom of tablet are recessed 1 mm or more into the plastic frame.

Solutions

1. Try to get Dell to repair/replace the "docking board" of the tablet under warranty. The recessed docking contacts cause the keyboard to intermittently disconnect and cause the tablet to shutdown.
   
   
2. Try to repair the device yourself with the information posted here. It shouldn't be too risky to follow the instructions on the dell video posted above and try to get the contacts to be flush to the plastic. If the contacts are soldered on the board crooked, it may require more advanced soldering skills to repair. 
   
   
3. Ad-hoc solution involving copper rectangles or any other conductive material that could be affixed to the recessed contacts to mitigate the intermittent disconnect issue. It is also suggested cleaning the contacts since they may trap dirt easily.
   
   
4. Always use AC power, although this is only a temporary work-around.

Thanks everyone, especially ajschuber, for the work you've done in this post!  You helped me come up with my own solution.  My solution was to tighten the fit between the metal tabs on the keyboard and the slots on the bottom of the tablet (fitting for a mechanical engineer).  I simply wrapped a little square of electrical tape over each tab.  This makes the connection much less wobbly, reducing the chance of the pins losing contact.  So far, it seems to be working.

Prior to this, my workaround was to disable one of the pins (i.e. cover it with tape): disabling the rightmost pin prevents the keyboard's battery from being used by the tablet, without disabling the keys and trackpad.

Joalo,

Great that you found a solution!

I realize I didn't update what I did to fix it-- let me post about that. Solution #2 has worked the best for me. The device has not crashed since I did that - for half a year now. I'll recap the details of that below.

It involves opening and closing the tablet case -- which is a rather involved procedure. Not everyone will want to do this.

Cause / How to tell if it is broken?

The circuit board for the docking pads is loose inside. This causes intermittent connection when you shake the hinge, which causes the OS to crash for some reason.

How can you tell if it is loose? If you look at the circular docking pads on the bottom of the tablet, some will be recessed by about 1mm while others are not. See this picture of my recessed contacts:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=72BBADB7B525D8F0!952&authkey=!ADgUh0p7z0O4QH4&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

Permanent Fix:

Involves these major steps:

1. Open up tablet (See video links below).
2. Unscrew docking circuit board (that has the docking pads). 
3. Reinsert the docking circuit board, making sure it is flush with the outer case. Also make sure you push down on it. There's some tab that keeps it both down vertically and horizontally. I pushed on it hard as I put the screws back in. Make sure the screws are really tight, use some loctite if you have it. 
4. Close up tablet. 

Prequisites for solution:

- iFixit iOpener kit or similar, these tools help to remove the screen/bottom case.

How to remove the bottom case

http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/70/videos~en/documents~venue-11-pro-5130-bottom-case-pcb-holder-disassembly-video.aspx

Getting the screen off is insanely tricky, and requires a bit of force. Just keep at it, it will pop off eventually.

How to remove the docking board

How to tell if it is fixed?

Check out this photo of "flush" pads, and compare it with the photo of the "recessed" pads above. Flush pads should have a good connection, and shouldn't crash it.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=72BBADB7B525D8F0!7138&authkey=!AGU7dZdnT2deI_I&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

Doesn't fix it?

It could be that the part that has the docking pads was soldered poorly to the circuit board, so it is crooked. If that's the case, you would need to resolder it. At that point you might as well return it to Dell unless you are an electrical engineer.

Or try the alternate solutions by Joalo, and some I posted earlier. One obvious one is to just use AC power, or if you don't make sure to keep it on a level surface and don't shake it. 

Just wanted to post an update:  my fix has been working great for me for the last week; it hasn't lost power once.  Unlike Andrew's tablet, the contacts on the bottom of my tablet don't appear to be recessed, so I guess it was losing connection because the pins would slide too far out of alignment with the contacts.  I used electrical tape, but you might want to try something that's more slippery; it makes attaching/detaching a bit more difficult.

Update: the fix isn't working, even after (or perhaps because of?) the recent firmware update for the travel keyboard. I am currently covering the rightmost pin on the keyboard to disable the battery to prevent shutdowns.