14 Posts
0
11222
Studio XPS 435T/9000, PCIe M.2 SSD, not in BIOS
I have this really great nine year old Studio XPS 435T/9000 with a Xeon X5690 hexacore CPU. I recently upgraded the GPU to an MSI GTX 1050 ti, the PSU to an EVGA 600w, 192GB of ECC RAM, Windows 10 Home and this M.2 PCIe SSD. Windows recognizes the M.2 SSD. But, the BIOS does not. Since this is NOT a SATA SSD, I can't imagine any SATA settings in the BIOS would effect this drive. I am considering using another Dell BIOS, A17. I currently have the latest BIOS, A16 circa 2011. I need to know if anyone else has had any luck with this? I mean, using Dell's A17 BIOS in this motherboard? Or, getting the OS to boot from the SSD? I really, really want the 2GB/sec read. I have the adapter in the PCIe x8 slot. Although there is a PCIe x8 adapter, I'm only using the x4 adapter. In my research, PCIe 2.1 is supposed to support M.2 SSD's. Can we please get a new BIOS to support this?
MasterX767
14 Posts
1
July 29th, 2018 16:00
I've solved the problem. Here's the solution;
1st: Intel has released open source code for the UEFI and UEFI Platform Initialization (PI) specifications in June 2004. So I actually found a, "Hot Potato" here Dell. This machine was not only sold with incorrect specifications, they are printed all over the motherboard. After further testing of the motherboard, I have discovered that achieving the 6.4 GT/sec. is only possible by installing hardware outside your specifications range. Hmmm..... Oh yea, there's more. The CPU limitation lowers all my RAM to the 800mhz spectrum when I'm supposed to get 1066Mhz. The Xeon X5690 is a Hexacore and a BEAST! 12 threads means I can get a full FPS on the GPU.
2nd: This computer is a circa 2009? Isn't that 5 years after UEFI was given away free to computer manufacturers? I can see your aggressive stance now. It's not just that, I have these issues, you are aware of them. I wanted to spread information and love for Dell computers here. I can always use Tom's Hardware. I have the solution for those who own this machine. I am not only able to enjoy my Dell computer, but tell people how to resolve issues related to this machine. BTW, the Velocity Solo X2 idea is completely BRILLIANT!
3rd: Xeon chips have WAY more memory addresses that the i7. Although the RAM is ECC, at 192GB you can't tell the difference in speed. As a matter of fact, my kid plays War Thunder and the graphics are out of this world. I couldn't imagine what PCIe 3.0 looks like. HOT ROD, BABY! WHOO!
4th: TianoCore is an open source community where they have developed EDK II. This software is like an extension of the BIOS and can be implemented at startup when the USB boot is selected as the primary boot device. Yes, you will have to forever commit a USB stick to the machine. Who doesn't have one laying around? You can buy an 8GB stick online for less than $2. This machine has several open USB ports and connectors on the MOBO.
5th: There is an M.2 NGFF NVMe SSD TO PCIE 3.0 X16/X8/X4 adapter on sale for $10 bucks delivered on the WISH app. It gives me as much as 3.5GT/sec. That gives me the full 3.2GB/sec that I am looking for in the read. I'll post some results later.
Fear not oh mighty Dell. I still love you. I know the RAM will probably fry the low tech capacitors someday. The ASUS P6T SE motherboard will replace it and still run EDK II. But for now kiddies, the X58 chipset is holding what it's supposed to do. I'm resolving the shortcomings and I hope others who read this can also know that the NVMe SSDs are viable to them. BTW, this also works on the P67 and B75 chipsets as well. God bless everyone! \m/
DELL-Chris M
Community Manager
Community Manager
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54.2K Posts
1
July 28th, 2018 06:00
Non-validated items by Dell in this 2009 EOL (end of life) model =
Xeon CPU
Windows 10
SSD
192GB ram
We are not going to write a BIOS for an EOL PC to add support for never validated SSD. Dell never released an A17 BIOS for the 2009 Studio XPS 435T/9000. The last one released was A16 (XPS435T-A16.exe) on 11/3/11. Using a BIOS from another PC model will not work and will break the CMOS.
MasterX767
14 Posts
1
July 28th, 2018 09:00
Of course they aren't validated. I am a 38 year experienced MCITP. You really can't expect someone like me to validate buying another MOBO when I know how to hot rod a PC. You made a PC that is supposed to be high performance and to PCIe 2.1 standards. It is clearly only 85% valid. There are several great features one can take advantage of in this PC model.
I purchased my XPS in March of 2010 off the Dell website. It was the, "Featured" performance model. How come you built it with unusable technology? Isn't the premium customer valued? I purchased this computer to be future proof. There are several Dell computers that are more than 3 years old that you write new BIOS for. How come the XPS only gets 1 year?
fireberd
9 Legend
9 Legend
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33.3K Posts
1
July 28th, 2018 10:00
Face it, Dell or HP or Lenovo or Acer or whoever PC company is in the business of selling you a new PC. They are not going to support a PC model forever. It may have been the "latest and greatest" when it was made, but that is only the "latest and greatest" until new hardware/models come out.
My computer experience is 57 years. Including Univac and IBM mainframes and then PC's both in maintenance and commercial operations.
speedstep
8 Wizard
8 Wizard
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47K Posts
1
July 28th, 2018 14:00
I have 47 years of experience with computers starting with Intel 4004 Processor in 1971 with 1702 Eproms. MSDOS was not available until 1981 and windows XP came out in 2001. Before MSDos was Apple II DOS in 1977. 3.5 inch floppies came out in 1984 on the Macintosh.
NVME PCI-E booting Requires 2012 or later UEFI BIOS. You do not have that and never will.
If you want to boot SSD get a velocity Solo X2 and put it in the X4 PCI-E Slot.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/398333/apricorn_velocity_solo_x2_pcie_20_x2_to_sata_6gb-s_solid_state_drive_adapter
There are no issues with windows 10 HOWEVER its not supported so you have to use windows VISTA/7 Drivers for Audio/Video/Intel RST etc.
Regular SSD's can use the Rocket 620
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115072
Tesla1856
8 Wizard
8 Wizard
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17K Posts
2
July 28th, 2018 14:00
1. I guess you have a M.2-2280~PCIe/NVMe-SSD on a PCIe Addin-Card? No, that would not appear in BIOS.
Some just give up and install a 2.5inch SATA-3/600 SSD (actually, not a bad idea if it works). It's still about 4-times faster than a spinning HDD (and also has crazy-high IOPS).
2. So, what's the problem exactly?
3. You would not think so, but I've read about it happening quite a bit.
Tesla1856
8 Wizard
8 Wizard
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17K Posts
1
July 29th, 2018 21:00
1. Not sure, but I do know that it would be several more years before UEFI systems appeared (from anyone).
2. It would be interesting to hear if you can get this to:
a. Actually boot Windows-10/64bit
b. Run faster than a SATA-3/600 SSD
3. Intel X58 chipset is limited to SATA-2/300
speedstep
8 Wizard
8 Wizard
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47K Posts
0
July 30th, 2018 05:00
CLASS 2.3.1 UEFI aka Windows 8 and 10 came out in 2012.
Class 2.3.1 UEFI is required for PCI-E NVME booting.
You have conventional Class 1 INT 13 DOS Compatible Bios.
Only a UEFI compatible with NVME (UEFI version 2.3.1 and later) along with a "efi driver"/module will allow the computer to POST->BOOT->OS from an NVME drive.
Wootboot
1 Message
1
October 9th, 2018 21:00
Hey @MasterX767, what exactly did you do to your 435T? I have one as well; it was my wife's work computer for a while but is now transferring duty to my workroom computer. I found this thread after looking for a way to get larger than 2TB drives to work (I used the v.10.1.0.1008, A00 of the Intel RST), which made the 5TB drive I just got recognizable and, oddly enough, allowed Windows to actually use the 12GB of ram instead of just seeing 12GB and using 8GB as it's been doing the past ~10 years.
If you could detail what worked for you (and what didn't), I'd appreciate it, including links or versions of software/drivers. Or start another thread somewhere and link it. The 435T seems like a pretty decent computer given it's age and I see no reason to not kick it up a little bit.
Thanks!
546insp
732 Posts
0
October 9th, 2018 22:00
While this was quite a computer 9 years ago it sounds like you are trying to keep it alive on a life support machine. I would let it go and get with the times of today. Here is the review from PC Mag back then;
https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2341728,00.asp
speedstep
8 Wizard
8 Wizard
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47K Posts
0
October 10th, 2018 06:00
Western Digital bundled an OEM Rocket 620 host bus adapter to allow larger than 2tb.
Advanced Format compatible: 512, 512e
Larger than 2 TB Drive support
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/PDF/R62x/R62x%20Quick%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
The only other requirement is 64 bit windows 7 or later.
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/PDF/RR600/HighPoint%20Product%20Support%20and%20Warranty%20Announcement%20for%20Rocket%20620-OEM%20SATA%20Host%20Bus%20Adapter.pdf
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115072
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0p06nmeC3A
Techgee
590 Posts
1
October 12th, 2018 12:00
546insp,
Like yourself, I've purchased a new Dell about every 4-5 years for decades. I'd upgrade a machine until it was maxed out and I couldn't do something I wanted to do.
Until I bought the Studio XPS 435T/9000.
I haven't hit a wall yet and see no reason to upgrade (even though I'm itching to do so just to have a new machine). The specs on my 435T with it's 6 core Xeon (with HyperThreading) running at 3.46 GHz base clock and 3.85 GHz all-core overclocked Turbo, 48 GB RAM (enough that all my apps are disk cached in memory after being brought up once - resulting in almost instant responsiveness), multiple all-SSD drive config, GTX 970 graphics card (which was plug-and-play - I didn't need to upgrade the original PSU) and Windows 10 Pro are still totally relevant. Still. 9 years later.
That said, I do dream of 28 cores and quad channel DDR4 RAM...
----
But, as MasterX767 pointed out there's probably no need to dream of NVMe PCIe SSD performance with the 435T. Oh, the 435T would be limited to a paltry actual 1700 MB/s throughput with a NVMe PCIe x4 SSD in it's PCIe 2.0 slot - which isn't much of an upgrade to the actual 270 MB/s of it's native SATA II [sarcasm]. (Caveat: small file performance wouldn't get nearly as much of an improvement - above only applies to large files.)
One way this has been done on X58 systems without UEFI BIOS support like the 435T is with a DUET/Clover/TianoCore bootloader which adds UEFI and NVMe support prior to booting Windows. The BIOS comes up and boots the bootloader, which is on a USB stick or SATA disk partition. The bootloader then loads up UEFI and NVMe support and then boots Windows on the NVMe SSD.
There's no guarantee this works on the 435T, but I see no reason why it wouldn't since it's been done with other X58 systems.
However, it's my understanding getting it to work can be quite technically challenging...
546insp
732 Posts
0
October 12th, 2018 18:00
I understand being attached to something, I see it as part of my job all the time and I am still hanging onto things I know I won't use anymore myself but there just come a time when it's better to let things go.
Techgee
590 Posts
1
October 20th, 2018 18:00
One other option for bootable NVMe PCIe SSDs in the 435T is via SSDs / PCIe cards with a built-in Legacy ROM that the 435T BIOS would see as bootable, even though the 435T's BIOS is non-UEFI. There are limited devices like this, though.
Since I plan to have "free" hand-me-down NVMe SSDs from a laptop as I upgrade it's storage capacity, I should be able to give either DUET/Clover bootloader or a SSD with built-in Legacy ROM a try. I'll report back if I do.
Techgee
590 Posts
1
October 24th, 2018 11:00
...my recent awareness of developments in NAS and blockchain [actual word censored] mining, which can be used as enabling infrastructure technologies in the 435T/9000, have convinced me to pull the trigger on a storage capacity and performance upgrade.
Looking at a Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe in front of me, which is waiting for a PCIe adapter. Hope is to run it as Windows 10 boot drive in the Dell Studio XPS 435T/9000. Fingers crossed...
EDIT: The Samsung 950 PRO M.2 NVMe 512GB SSD works flawlessly as a Windows 10 boot drive in the Dell XPS 435T/9000.
I did nothing special to get it to work - no Clover nor DUET needed. This is possible because the Samsung 950 PRO is special - it contains a Legacy Option ROM that can talk to a non-UEFI BIOS, which later SSD versions don't have (so, no, something like a newer Samsung 960, 970, etc. won't work). Samsung 950 PRO was available in 256GB and 512GB capacities - you should be able to find one used on places like ebay. Links to PCIe adapter I used elsewhere on Dell's forums here. I let Windows install the drive as MBR like I would a SATA drive in the machine with it's Legacy non-UEFI BIOS. Getting expected read speed of about 1700 Mb/s due to PCIe 2.0 limitations. Awesome.