XPS 8940, does yours freeze randomly?

Hello, have you try to disbale fast startup ?

FWIW my 8940 was delivered in October 2020 with the motherboard 0KV3RP and has never experienced a lockup. It has had various NVidia drivers and every BIOS update with only one minor problem (posted about elsewhere on this board). So maybe the root cause of the freezing relates to changes made between the first and subsequent issues of the board.

Also FWIW I came across 200+ posts on a forum of a competing but broadly comparable product describing what seems to be an identical freezing problem starting in April 2021. The manufacturer issued a patch exactly one year later. From skimming through their posts it seems the cause of the problem was the erroneous installation of an NVidia driver for a non-present component - NVidia USB 3.10 Extensible Host Controller. This item also shows up in Device Manager  on my machine. I've no idea whether it is physically present or not; either way it has never been an issue.

bob

@bdtnr @xrms3 @suenrod 

First, I too have a similar configuration... smaller SSD, standard CD, less RAM, and RTX2060.

The possible motherboards in an 8940:

KV3RP Foxconn 02012PQ00-600-G, Released July 9, 2020
2W4W1 Foxconn 02012TA00-600-G, Released December 1, 2020, Brazil only
F1H92 Foxconn 02012YJ00-600-G, Released March 15, 2021, Brazil only
427JK Foxconn 02012VY00-600-G, Released March 15, 2021
K3CM7 Foxconn ??, Released July 14, 2021

I have the 427JK. I was sent a KV3RP, but when installed the XPS wouldn't even power up. They insist I try the K3CM7 and I told them if fails the same way for others. Still want me to try it.

I too have the USB devices:

I am SURE they can be used. They are for the MONITOR probably to go along with the Video drive. My Dell S3221SQ does have USB ports on it. Suspect it is loaded on all Nvidia drivers.

Let us also be clear. If the was any other h/w or s/w causing the problem, going back to the BIOS V2.3.0 with not other changes SHOULD not solve the problem. Note that Linux users have the same problem, so you can surely rule out Window 10/11 as well.

The Freezing started with the release of V2.4.0 in late Jan. 2022. So far, owners of  XPS''s with all the US motherboards have reported the SAME problem. A freeze with no indication why and only way to recover is to power off and on.

This more of a lock-up as the OS stops, even the clock. Whatever is causing the fail doesn't even get a chance to write to the event log or create a dump.

I'd be interesting in a LINK to a competing product with this problem though, please post it.

@ispalten- here is the link. I'd be surprised if the 8940 problem is identical but you never know!

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Gaming-Desktops/Lenovo-Legion-T5-28IMB05-constantly-gets-severe-freezes/m-p/5077386

bob

@xrms3 

Bob, thanks for the link. That is one large one, 21 pages...

Got to read it, a lot of differing responses...

Yes, the problem appears to be the same result.

Page one states removed the Nvidia GeForce Experience, (2021-08-09 15:28:16) and others that say it worked, then, one came back it didn't (2021-08-26 14:43:02).

Then it got to be the Nvidia Audio driver (2021-08-28 11:12:28), another said the CPU was the problem (2021-09-16 11:03:23). Then on 2021-09-16 11:22:07 it was claimed to be drivers again.

That followed on 2021-09-17 17:21:34 that the PhyX driver was part of the problem and you had install Lenovo drivers only...

Some messages about changing CPU working or not (2021-10-17 08:22:16 and later) fixing the problem... some say it does...

Here (2021-10-17 16:10:44) it happened when using USB Headphones later post said using OEM drivers (not Nvidia) worked fine... After that another link to Graphic and sound problems with a freeze, all Nvidia related.

Another one (2021-10-25 03:54:11) tells you to remove ALL Nvidia drivers with DDU and then just re-install the drive. Guarantees 'weeks' of no freezes but it will happen again.... huh???

Rename a specific file (2021-11-19 11:48:56) so it doesn't get used, followed by it is a motherboard problem, and it doesn't work.

Then (2021-11-19 16:52:13) claims disabling On-Board sound fixes it...

Here (2021-11-20 20:59:06) it is the NV HD Audio driver, disable that....

Didn't take long, 2021-11-21 05:32:35, for that not to be the fix,

Got tired of reading the same stuff, jumped to the end...(I was on page 12)

On Page 21 it can be confusing... Has to do with the Nvidia USB driver, but also the 'fix' that was official is for a BSOD? Only specific cards as well.

These 2 conflict each other, 2022-05-10 14:23:55 and 2022-06-07 21:22:18:

====================

But it is sad to say that just disabling the "NVIDIA USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller -1.10(Microsoft)" did not work for me. I still received the same BSOD error on the second day.

============

and

============

I would just like to confirm that disabling the 3.10 eXtensible has been working for the past month and I have only had crashes because it randomly gets re-enabled sometimes after certain updates (which can just be disabled again if it crashes). This fix has saved me from almost buying a new pc. Thank you to the absolute legend that found this fix.

==============

Not sure what is going on, but from the official Readme I see this,

================

Downloading file
1. Unzip the tool file,you will see three files.
such as:devcon,Repair bsod instruction,Readme
2. Run the Repair bsod instruction file as administrator.
3. Check the Device Manager>> Universal Serial Bus controllers >>NVIDA USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller. -1.1(Microsoft)
4. If successful, the NVIDA USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller device will have a downward arrow in front of it.
5.Finally, you need to restart the OS for it to take effect.

================

That seems to do the same as DISABLING the device with Device Manager which was suggested way before and didn't work, at least for everyone.

No matter what, IF it is the driver, ANY Nvidia Driver, then why did BIOS V2.3.0 work (for most of us at least) and V2.4.0 start the problem?

Think about that, how would you explain that not being the cause vs. the Nvidia drivers?

How about users running Linux are seeing the same problem?

Smells of a h/w problem, and BIOS is considered to me at least part of the h/w.

Of course, with it happening on all 3 US Motherboards, it isn't the chipsets that are the problem.

I think the REAL problem is that I don't think Dell has been able to reproduce the problem? I'm also sure the problem only exists with Nvidia cards in the XPS and being the active display card in use.

As for Lenovo, the problem at one point was pinned on the Nvidia released drivers, not the tested released Lenovo drivers. Well, on the XPS any and all drivers, and that includes the Studio and Game Ready (Dell only issues Game Ready drivers) have proven to fail, so it doesn't seem to matter which supplier you use.

Another data point to consider. Besides BIOS V2.4.0 introducing the problem, subsequent BIOS releases have changed the frequency of the lock-ups. Each release appears to have it happen less often than the one before. Therefore one could infer Dell is making some changes in hopes of fixing the problem and they just have not completely corrected the code.

Update,

Since July 30 when "Intel Corporation - Extension - 18.7.1.1003" installed, it has not crashed. 2 days and nights and counting. I was having a few freezes a day before.

I'm fully updated. Even the bios is 2.7.

Fingers crossed!!

Sue, how did you determine this was installed (I assume June 30th)?

That is my Google search is right is a 6 month old file that should have been installed in Jan.?

I can't even locate it in Device Manager it seems either (at least not clearly marked like you posted it)?

I only had one file (PowerShell v7.2.5 (x64)) installed by MS Update on the 29th, and before that it was 6/25, nothing on 6/30?

The Intel Driver and Support Assist (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/intel-driver-support-assistant.html) shows that I am up to date.

If that is correct, are you sure you actually have a SCSI drive? A SCSI controller too? Most of the drives will be SATA, not SCSI (different controller and cables).

Now, concerning BIOS V2.7.0, I can go a week without the freeze... better than any BIOS 2.4.0 and after, but it still happens, every 5 days or later to me.

What BIOS were you on before? V2.4.0? Did you try V2.3.0?

Irv,

The update shows in "update history" under drivers.

My XPS8940 uses SATA. I don't know why a SCSI driver affected anything but I'm now 3 days and nights without freezes since it installed. I was having a minimum of 3 per day prior.

I tried running the older BIOS (2.3, I think). It helped a lot but I would still freeze a few times a week.

-Rod

I've posted this in other threads but this seems to be the most current. I am running Linux (Arch, everything up to date including Nvidia drivers). I get these lockups. I have tried all sorts of things. On BIOS 2.2 I was stable for 4 weeks and then got lockups. On BIOS 2.3 I got lockups right away then turned off Turbo and was stable for two weeks before a lockup.

But one thing changed on 2.3. After the lockup, the system rebooted spontaneously after a minute or two, and I was able to get something out of journalctl.

In the first instance I found lots of PCIem errors, including just before the lockup, of the form "Bad TLP ... " etc. I researched and found some kernel parameters to change. Those errors went away and I was stable for a while.

This last time (with 2.3 and Turbo off) I had the same behavior. This time journalctl gave me something that I think is of real value. This, just before the lockup.

Jul 03 09:51:48 fatman kernel: NVRM: GPU at PCI:0000:02:00: GPU-a300cbeb-8cbd-04ff-5188-a996f683cdc9
Jul 03 09:51:48 fatman kernel: NVRM: Xid (PCI:0000:02:00): 79, pid=' ', name= , GPU>
Jul 03 09:51:48 fatman kernel: NVRM: GPU 0000:02:00.0: GPU has fallen off the bus.

Aha! Here is something relating to the Nvidia card, and also related to PCIe. Some research showed me circumstances under which the "fallen off the bus" error can occur. One of them has to do with inadequate power, and I've read that the XPS 8940 does not have---ahem--- a generous power supply.

So I got to thinking. What would affect this? Okay--- I had added (on my own) a 4TB HDD as a secondary drive. Now, when do I get lockups? Almost exclusively after an idle period. Not during an idle period and not instantly on exiting from the idle period, but anything from 10 secs to maybe 30 seconds after. Here is a theory (only a theory so far): During idle the HDD spins down. After idle the HDD spins up when it is called upon, which is likely to be some seconds after the idle. A motorized device draws the most power on startup-up, not while running.

Could it be that the GPU is seeing lower voltage/less available current under some circumstances, but sometimes when the HDD spins up?

I'm providing what I think are the only real error messages available so far. Dell, if you're reading this thread it might be something to look at. Please don't say "oh you're running Linux" or "oh you added a hard drive" and say it's out of scope. This is actual hard data on a very elusive problem.

Rod,

OK, sorry, I just looked at the updates.

However, I never got that one, and the Intel SA says I'm up to date as well.

I've shown all the way back to last year, never got it, and you can see where V2.4.0 was shoved down my throat even with Capsule Update off... Once MS WU installed it, it didn't try again which was interesting. Any after are not either... could have been and MS problem or Dell one in that the file was not built correctly to honor that setting?

I think I asked you, but Chrome alone would do the freezing if not 'fixed'. I'd try V2.3.0 again, verify it did install and turn off Capsule Update... see what happens. I think only you and one other user still had V2.3.0 problems?

I wonder if the Blu-Ray CD-Rom is SCSI??? That could explain the reason you got it, but I doubt it as I don't think the 8940's have a SCSI controller?

Hmm, at least you caught some errors, not like use Windows Users... Dell should be happy about that.

Well, I am on the SE version. PSU is larger. 500W vs. 350W I think on the Std Edition. So I can't say mine was a power issue?

I have a 2nd Dell 1TB drove installed and using a 4TB powered External that shouldn't put a load on it.

I've had lockups when the mouse is in movement. Not coming out of Monitor Sleep or the PC Sleep (disk drive). In the middle of a running program. However, a LOT of background task could be running at any given time accessing a drive.

In most cases though, reverting to BIOS V2.3.0 and the system works fine.

All that might rule out, at least for me, a power issue I'd think?

The power idea was just a theory. It still could be possible but of course I have no solid evidence other than the fact the the Nvidia card is "falling off the bus" which could be for a number of reasons.

I made a change to the disk controller so that the HDD never spins down and thus won't draw starting current. Let's see how long it takes for this to be proved wrong by another lockup

So far 2.3.0 even with Turbo off hasn't done the job for me. Lockups are infrequent but the correct number is zero, ever.

Don't give up though? I did Google "Nvidia card is "falling off the bus" and this it seems is NOT an odd thing?

Some links:

https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/gpu-keeps-falling-off-the-bus/80899 <-- Linux/power/overheating

https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/gpu-has-fallen-off-the-bus-while-idle-only-occurs-when-all-displays-powered-off/203096 <- Linux and changing driver and adding some command to startup.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=267855 <- Linux, solved by changing sllot, doubt you can do that, but maybe the card needs to be re-seated????