XPS 8940, random freezing

@Qlewis30 

I'm not sure what you are after or looking for on the problem?

If you want to know WHAT could be on an XPS 8940, review the FAQ for it (both Standard and SE editions) @ https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-Wiki/FAQ-XPS-8940/ta-p/7675306 which by the way is not really complete and may contain errors and errors of omission.  I say 'omission' as the on-board Intel Graphics I have is the HD750, and it is NOT listed there, or the HD700 (part of the Intel Gen 11 and 10 product).

I have the 500W if that matters.

What seems to be not fully understood here is that IF one back-levels to the V2.3.0 BIOS, with OUT making and changes to the PC, the problem does not happen. Yes, one user has reported it still happened, but there could be other problems that user has?

Still, even if one could determine it only happens on Nvidia card PC's that have xx and yy installed and use zz, you would still need to be able determine how to recreate it.

I do not think Dell has been able to do that? I could be wrong, but one has to also ask why V2.5.1 BIOS doesn't have the problem as frequently as V2.4.0 did, and V2.6.0 had is happen even less frequently.

Also, why has no other video card, and AMD or Intel HDxxx have a problem with the BIOS?

One could think it could be heat related. None have reported high fan noise (I rarely hear mine). Power problem, could be, but how would one know? No indication of it at all? Temperature, doubt it, I had the PC sitting idle and it locked-up (I couldn't move the mouse and the clock on the SysTray was off by 1/2 hour) and my PC is on a UPS and if power even were to drop a few volts, the USP would fire up and even send me email that a power event had happened (and yes, I get them, even when I power off the PC it sends me email, and I've had emails a few seconds apart telling me the UPS took over and that electrical power has been restored).

What can't be ruled out is the BIOS... even happened for one user who is on Linux.

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@ispalten wrote:

.  . .However, as I listed, although there could be common elements in each user with the problem on their PC, it is the uniqueness of each PC that helps isolate the problem to the BIOS itself which is the common item for all with the problem.

. . explain again the hypothesis for dismissing anything else to be the cause?  

(slightly less of a rant)

The threads I've read on forums who found success ended up replacing the memory and SSD. That doesn't mean a lot because users tend to leave out important info. Or else they might’ve never followed up to report the issue returning.

What I didn't read on this thread is whether or not you tried some of the obvious. So I wouldn’t know.

But you might at the very least want to give these a try. 

1. Get a list of all Dell services and apps installed.  You can use the wmic command in the command prompt window.  Or just use a free utility RevoUninstaller, CCleaner, Geek Uninstaller, etc
2. Run a test on the memory. Download Passmark ®Memtest86. Leave the settings at default. Took about 4 - 1/2 hours to run on my two 8 GB modules YMMV.
3. I’m assuming you’ve updated the NVMe firmware from Dell's support page under your service tag. If not, I’d wait till performing this last and even as a last resort.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here’s a list of services and apps you may or may not find. There may be more or less. Either dis-enable or completely uninstall them one by one to see the impact each has

• Dell Digital Delivery Services (provided that you’ve made no Dell software purchases)
• Dell Mobile Connect (provided that you have no mobile devices connected to Windows)
• Dell SupportAssist Remediation (Definitely Nuke this. Its totally unnecessary)  
• Dell Update - SupportAssist Update Plugin (Is this what you have installed ?)
• Dell Update for Windows 10 (Or is it this the Dell Update you have installed?)

This leaves Support Assist. At the very most, you'll have to manually install all the latest drivers on the Dell support site going forward. Even if its uninstalled, it can easily be re-installed it if it didn’t resolve your issue. 

What in the Dell do you have to lose ?

Say you did already nuke McAfee after you set up your system?  Removing all remnants isn’t easy even with uninstaller tools

@Anonymous 

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@Anonymous wrote:

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. . explain again the hypothesis for dismissing anything else to be the cause?  

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OK, very easy...

First, let me explain this, it you had a car and it was making a noise on the right front by the tire. It could be many different things, maybe a loose fender, headlight, fan belt, cylinder in the engine, battery, etc. Tire is on a one piece wheel, no hub cap... So you start with the easy stuff, check everything to see if they are loose. Nope, all tight. Engine, big job. So you take off the tire and replace it. Noise goes away... conclusion, it was the tire and wheel as you put new ones on, but more importantly, nothing else was changed or modified.

Well, swapping out the any of the last 3 BIOS versions (2.4.0, 2.5.1, and 2.6.0) for 2.3.0 and the problem is gone. No other changes are made to PC.

Well, I was put through the wringer by Dell...

I had to do a CLEAN install of Windows 11 via Windows Media Creation tool. I did NOT have the Dell Windows 11 as my XPS shipped with Win10. I did NOT want to install W10 and then W11. That meant I lost ALL Dell s/w. It took some time to locate that and install them. You missed one too, Dell Display Manager.

However, I digress, I have NO desire to do any of those you suggest. If going back to BIOS V 2.3.0 works, then the chance of one of those you seem to think could be the cause I'd say is slim.

It appears you are a user on an 8930 and claim you have the same problem? You flashed the BIOS in Feb., and that is when your problem started. You do use the word 'freeze' but do you mean momentary freeze or a complete lock-up. Want to know if we are talking about the same thing?

You also mention voltages? Not how you measured them though. No one else seems to complain about voltage problems... Which program did you use?

Have you reported the voltage problem to Dell?

If you want to continue this, please PM me.

nope. thanks. I don't want to continue this in PM. This dialogue has been a total waste of time.

My personal policy is abstaining from offering anyone a hand if all they can do is be deflective and un-open to any offered suggestions

Merriam- Webster definition 

hy·​poth·​e·​sis | \ hī-ˈpä-thə-səs

plural hypotheses\ hī-​ˈpä-​thə-​ˌsēz

An assumption for the sake of argument. It implies insufficient evidence based on the objective of something being tested

That pretty much sums up everything perfectly 

@dsxyxler 

Questions:

• I assume you used the BIOS under Performance to change the Turbo Boost? Were all other settings on DEFAULT?
• CPU, it is an i9 you said, not a K version right?
• Which Browser are you using? Chrome, Edge, Firefox, other?
• If Chrome, have you tried another Browser?

I'm on an i7 11700 (Win 11). I use Firefox and have not moved any BIOS Performance setting off of DEFAULT. I use Firefox and have no problem  using Youtube on any BIOS version, even V2.4.

• Yes - turbo boost disabled, all other performance settings default
• Not a K version
• Generally Chrome
• I was using Edge on previous PCs but not on either of the 8940 systems 
• Upgraded CPU cooler from the cheap on Dell supplied to a Noctua tower
• Replaced the rear case fan with a 92 mm fan
• Added a 120 mm fan at the front of the case where the front drive cage normally is installed
• the i9 11900 generally runs ~30 C w/o turbo boost enabled

Has anyone tried bios 2.6.0?  After downgrading to bios 2.3.0 the 8940 has System Firmware 2.4.0 and Device Manager shows "This device cannot start. (Code 10)" in the system firmware properties. I found a Dell KB post indicating that to solve that problem "update to the latest bios". Suspect advice given the experience with bios new than 2.3.0. 

Interestingly a friend has an 8940 with an i9 11900 cpu. Dell just replaced his motherboard as well as the m2 SSD. His replacement motherboard came with BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. 2.0.13, 4/1/2021. Why?

@dsxyxler 

Thanks for the info...

Some comments:

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• Generally Chrome
• I was using Edge on previous PCs but not on either of the 8940 systems 

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I can't say for sure this is your problem, but Google "chrome youtube hangs", it seems to be a common problem.

Run Edge and YouTube (or get Firefox) and check with Turbo Boost on, might work OK.

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Has anyone tried bios 2.6.0?

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Yes, and there is a thread here with that subject, https://www.dell.com/community/XPS-Desktops/XPS-8940-BIOS-2-6-0-released/m-p/8198734#M71854  but not much in it. Many have used it and the replied are in other 8940 freeze/lock-up subjects.

V2.6.0 is 'better' than V2.5.1 in that it still locks up the PC but just not as often. V2.5.1 is better than V2.4.0 which locks up almost daily however it still would lock up every few days.

V2.3.0 is the last 'never lock up (for almost everyone)' versions of the BIOS.

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After downgrading to bios 2.3.0 the 8940 has System Firmware 2.4.0 and Device Manager shows "This device cannot start. (Code 10)" in the system firmware properties.

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Ahh, this one is easy. First, you have Device Manager set to show HIDDEN DEVICES. The Firmware section has V2.4.0 in it and it IS a Hidden Device. Go to VIEW TAB and uncheck SHOW HIDDEN DEVICES. This shows as the INSTALL FILES is still on your PC. Look at the Properties DETAILS tab. Pull the PROPERTY pulldown and look at Inf name... and that file will be in C:\Windows\INF... there is a a driver registry item pointing to that. Normally, once installed, that Registry data would be removed. It was NOT for 2.4.0 it seems, so all that is hanging around that was used for the Install. The Device Manager error IS correct too, it isn't started, and would never have been able to either (one reason it is hidden is because it is MARKED internally that way. I've not done it, but I think you can UNINSTALL the driver and all that would be deleted. However, I don't know if that is wise so I've left it.

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Interestingly a friend has an 8940 with an i9 11900 cpu. Dell just replaced his motherboard as well as the m2 SSD. His replacement motherboard came with BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. 2.0.13, 4/1/2021. Why?

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I suspect the REPLACEMENT motherboard was either OLD STOCK or a REFURBISHED one (from and old system).

I had a problem from day one on my 8940, new last Aug. Dell thought the cure was an Nvidia card and motherboard replacement. One the parts were replaced the Tech made it a point to show me he was updating the BIOS. Too many have old BIOSes on them. Don't know if what he said was true, but I suspect that maybe the reason.

Many times people don't update files, and in some cases, this might be OK if you are not experiencing problems. However, my take on BIOS files is since they usually contain Security fixes, always take those. Only true problem is that DELL does not state clearly what was FIXED in the BIOS update. Security will never be listed (by any vendor except some special cases of well know problems so you know it was fixed in that release) what s/w problems were addressed, like the Nvidia Lock-up problem for instance. It is 'try it and see' now with Dell not doing that.

I didn't mention that I have my displays running on the Intel MB video rather than the Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti that is a part of the system. I am not using the Nvidia card because it scrambles and multiplies the dell logo during a start or restart POST sequence and often proceeds to multiple horizontal bars composed  of ~1 inch vertical lines with scrambled miniaturized (unreadable) lines of text. Sometimes it boots and sometimes not.  

@dsxyxler 

I don't know what to tell you?

All your symptoms seem to differ greatly from what the other Nvidia users here have had?

Not using the Nvidia card, does that mean nothing is attached to it or took it out?

What I think you should do is:

• Run the Intel Graphics Control Center. Look at the SYSTEM and GPU tab and make SURE it doesn't see the Nvidia card.
• Make sure the BIOS is set to one Monitor, not DUAL.
• Roll back to the LAST stable BIOS you had, don't know, go back to V2.3.0.
• Try PHYSICALLY removing the Nvidia card from the XPS.
• Then RUN DDU (https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html ) to completely remove all remnants of the Nvidia driver.
• Reboot and test again.

If you still have a problem, it probably is NOT the BIOS or Nvidia card. Contact Dell...

I suspect Dell will want you to do a clean install of Windows using the Dell image.

Enabled Turbo Boost and successfully played a couple of YouTube videos in Edge, Had dinner and came back to the 8940 and it was frozen. Turbo Boost is disabled once again.

In Device Manager the System Firmware 2,4,0 issue shows up whether or not show hidden devices is checked on or off.

The beat goes on. 

My friends replacement MB with the super outdated bios in my mind simply demonstrates  Dell's sloppy approach to supporting customers who assume they are purchasing a reliable system from a top tier vendor. 

I will keep pursuing a solution.

Thanks...

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@dsxyxler wrote:

Enabled Turbo Boost and successfully played a couple of YouTube videos in Edge, Had dinner and came back to the 8940 and it was frozen. Turbo Boost is disabled once again.

 

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Is the Nvidia card still in the PC?

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@dsxyxler wrote:

In Device Manager the System Firmware 2,4,0 issue shows up whether or not show hidden devices is checked on or off.

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I've seen others report that? It might be part of the Pro version and set by Group Policy that Home versions do not have?

Still, nothing to worry about.

Some links on that:

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/uninstall-hidden-devices-calling-ghostbuster/ 

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/device-cleanup-tool-windows 

https://vmexpo.wordpress.com/2013/12/28/removing-hidden-devices-in-device-manager/ 

https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/145060-cleanup-orphan-hidden-devices.html 

Or just ignore it.

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@dsxyxler wrote:

My friends replacement MB with the super outdated bios in my mind simply demonstrates  Dell's sloppy approach to supporting customers who assume they are purchasing a reliable system from a top tier vendor. 

 

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I still think this more a problem of who installed the motherboard than a Dell problem. The guy that did mine KNEW he had to install the latest BIOS as he CHECKED what the board had on boot the first time.

Heck, Dell pre-builds some systems for quick ship, and surely you don't expect them to go back and update every system either pre-build or in production for every file that gets updated?

In the case of a 'part', and specifically the disk drive that is bootable and motherboard that in stock every time a file is updated?

Matter of fact, I was told IF they need to replace the SSD, I'd have to install W10 myself and get all files needed that they install on it. I didn't need the SSD replaced.

Does all car dealers update a car that has been recalled before selling it? Maybe, maybe not? Does Amazon, Costco, BJ's, etc. update the systems they have in stock before selling it, I am sure the answer is no on that.

Some stuff is left to the end user.

I am also sure the motherboard was probably a refurbished one or some left is stock and not used before. If the part was put into a production XPS that was sold it probably would have been updated during the build process.

Look, your friend got a replacement, and to me, that makes Dell a reliable seller. They stand behind their product.

My fix was to turn off fast reboot (its easy to google).  I can use the most up to date graphics drivers and bios and everything works.  All freezing has stopped.