A_Kri
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -


@Dell-SreejithR wrote:

Download & save the following drivers to your desktop screen.

Intel Chipset device software driver

Intel Dynamic Platform & Thermal Framework driver (IDPTF)

BIOS (even if you have the latest version)

 

Open device manager – expand IDPTF- right click on the driver & click on uninstall (check the box that says delete driver) do not restart the computer. Install the Chipset driver followed by the IDPTF & BIOS.


I uninstalled everything related to IDPTF. I marked it on the photo

Anmerkung 2019-03-12 180156.jpg

I did not restart.

I installed the Chipset driver.

Then I tried to install the IDPTF. Issue. Not working.

Had to restart after chipset driver.

After restart, I could install IDPTF.

After that I restarted another time.

And then I flashed the BIOS 1.8.1 again.

I then waited after the Notebook was quite again. So no Windows things would have an impact on the load.

Started Lightroom. Nvidia kicks in. And so do the fans, in the described way. on and off.

Issue is still there.

 

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A_Kri
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

Short video clip of the issue. SreejithR asked for it yesterday

In this clip I put my phone as a microphone near the fan. So it is easier to hear it. The mic on my camera doesn't pick up the sound well.

In real life it is not too loud. It is like the loweset setting of the fan. The issue is just that it is constantly switching on and off, therefore it is much more obtrusive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_w4lRP7rCo

 

EDIT: On the left side near the WIFI symbol in the tray, you can see the when the nvidia card is active. That info is from the nvidia control panel. The blue temperature is for CPU and the green for the nvidia card. It shows zero when in idle mode. 

Short video clip of the issue, I described in the Dell forum. In this clip I put my phone as a microphone near the fan. So it is easier to hear it. The mic on my camera doesn't pick up the sound well. In real life it is not to loud. It is like the loweset setting of the fan. The issue is just that
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Highlighted
NicoNine
1 Nickel

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

PCH.png

I'm not sure this is the same as your issue but when connecting a WD16 dock the Temp6 goes from ~38C to 50C on Temp6 in HWInfo. Fans start when it hit around 42C which is way to early in my oppinion. My guess it is the PCH chip but thats just a guess from reading other ppl's observations.

I just get the feeling that Dell programmed the fan curves to start the fans on too low temps. With the XPS 9570 hardware design it's impossible to get a silent computer with those fan curves.

 

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A_Kri
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

After many troubleshooting steps there is still no solution.

The IDPTF and BIOS have been reinstalled.

For @Dell-SreejithR “This seems to be more of an issue with the driver settings & not a hardware issue. The G   PU is well within temperature here.“ (‎03-12-2019 11:31 AM)

I am also convinced that this has something to do with dells fan management rather than a hardware issue.

I had to go back to Nvidia driver 397.93 from Mai 2018. and confirm that the issue still persists. Because that is the latest driver Dell provides. The behaviour doesn`t change with the more recent nvidia drivers, which tells me that the issue is not on nvidias site?

I had to run the hardware test from the Support Assist tool, and there is no error reported.

Later I confirmed one more time that this issue occurs only without AC connected. Because when AC is connected, the fans just run constantly.

Sreejith did some lab testing with other dell engineers and “[…]the system is not finding an issue with the fan rpm & is working normally to dissipate heat. We tested a system with the same driver & BIOS version but could not replicate the fan noise issue irrespective of the load on the system.” (‎03-14-2019 07:13 AM)

I had then to check if the issue occurs in windows safe mode. The fans are just always running in safe mode. The XPS is on complete idle, without any application running. In safe mode I can’t tell for sure if the nvidia driver is working fine. Lightroom crashes. So, in short:

I can’t replicate the issue in safe mode, but only due to improper work of almost everything inside the safe mode.

4 Days ago (‎03-15-2019 11:35 AM) was the last message from SreejithR and he was indicating after I tried the safe mode that “If the issue persists, I can set up a service to have the system checked a per your warranty.”  

 

Here are some similar described issues from other users:

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6097749/highlight/true#M12415

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6224058/highlight/true#M21265

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/7260757/highlight/true#M26147

And a comment under my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_w4lRP7rCo&lc=UgywB_Im00qX4GaBuVR4AaABAg

 

Another dell representative @Dell-Alan D  is saying that it is working just fine:

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6098100/highlight/true#M12428

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6098144/highlight/true#M12434

 

In my eyes this is the result of Dells aggressive fan curve temperature management. Apple and Lenovo seem to handle this a bit better. They allow their machines with similar power and chassis design to run a bit hotter before the fans start to spin.

But even if Dell does not want to change this threshold, there is still some kind of a bug where the fans are vacillating over whether they should spin or not.

It would be nice if at least this could be fixed.

Maybe this just needs more attention like in the 48°C nvidia bug where notebookcheck.com (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Some-Dell-XPS-15-9570-laptops-may-have-a-BIOS-related-GPU-bug.355026.0...) had to write an article about it and dell decided after a while, Ok guys now we can start solving this issue. Before that it was just an issue of an individual so they didn’t care.

reddit.com/r/dell could also be beneficial for more attention. But does it really has to be such a hassle to get fine working PC?

Short video clip of the issue, I described in the Dell forum. In this clip I put my phone as a microphone near the fan. So it is easier to hear it. The mic on my camera doesn't pick up the sound well. In real life it is not to loud. It is like the loweset setting of the fan. The issue is just that
A_Kri
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

I got another message from @Dell-SreejithR:
"If the fan runs normally or constantly it could be an issue with the application in the background. Please try a clean boot in normal mode, disable all option including the anti-virus.

If the issue persists, please share a 30-minute video running HWinfo with the AC adapter connected & then a 30-minute video with the system on battery." (03-19-2019 12:38 PM)

I disabled everything I could find. No dropbox, no Onedrive, no GoogleDrive, no AntiVir from Windows. Clean start.
Just opened HWINFO and selected some interesting Graphs.

So I made a new video:
https://youtu.be/9Qo3l8Tjnzg

30 min with AC (The fans are always one despite the low temperatures)
10 min only Battery (The fans go off, and stay off)
10 min with dGPU active (The fans are crazy)

The .CSV data I only sent to @Dell-SreejithR. I don't know if it is a good idea to share them with everyone? Like the service tag...

 


From the video description:

@00:00 - the AC run starts. The temps are ~40°C and the fans are always on with ~2500rpm

@31:00 the AC is unplugged and the Battery run starts. After 10 minutes I stop because everything is fine. And its just a waste of time.

@42:00 I start lightroom to activate the nvidia GPU. I don't know another way of doing it.
I wait until some heat is in the machine.
It warms up, cools down, and settles in the neighborhood of 45°C
This is more of a normal temperature while using the machine. Instead of the first minutes were nothing happend on complete idle.

@46:40 Here the described issue can be observed very good. The windows for the fans are the two located on the left side. Second from the bottom.
Normal operating temperature, but the fans go on and off.
Sometimes they do it on their own, sometimes they are triggered by a mouse click or any interaction with the notebook. First I try zooming in the picture in and out, or just selcting the next picture. At the end of the video I try clicking around in the operating system. The notification bar, taskbar, ....

@49:09 I remembered the GPU temp. So I opended the window for it to show. But it is basically on its lowest possible temperature

This video has no audio. If you are just for the issue here, go to @46:40 Other Timestamps are down below This video was made for Dell support. I got this message from one dell support guy: "If the fan runs normally or constantly it could be an issue with the application in the background. Please
A_Kri
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

I guess all my work to document this issue was unnecessary?
After you told me to use HWiNFO, I found the fan control option. Then I did a little bit of research of how it can be used.

I found this:
https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-REQUEST-Write-to-EC-manual-fan-control-on-Dell-XPS-laptops

And the interesting part is, the reason why all those people try to manipulate the fan curve.
They link to the following reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/akngpy/incompetent_dell_devs_answer_to_bios_170_fan/

There the whole issue, I tried to show you, is already described.

And there is a link, again to another notebookcheck.net article.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-resolves-the-XPS-15-9570-NVIDIA-GPU-issue-with-BIOS-1-7.393841.0....

In this article it says that they reached out to Dell:
"Furthermore, BIOS 1.7 appears to have introduced a couple of issues too that are worth keeping in mind before upgrading. The fans now turn on for up to 10 seconds any time that the NVIDIA GPU is activated, and even if the system is running coolly. "

And later in the update:
"Update
Perhaps predictably, Dell has denied that there is an issue with the fans in some XPS 15 9570 laptops turning on whenever the NVIDIA GPU is activated. A representative remarked that:

...it is normal for the fan to run even before reaching the temperature threshold. This has been verified by our product engineering team. This should not affect the functionality of the computer. The system behavior is as per the BIOS instructions.


The same representative then clarified that:

I believe that there are no hardware issues related to the GPU or the fan. I have verified this with our product engineering team, and it is working as designed.

Dell has not stated at what temperature threshold the fans should switch on, but it is disappointing to note that Dell is happy with the fans "to run even before reaching the temperature threshold". However, multiple people on the XPS 15 9570 Owners Thread on NotebookReview have remarked that the fans now turn on whenever the NVIDIA GPU is activated and not when the system reaches a certain temperature."


What the **bleep** dell?
Just look at all the topics about fan issues. Almost all of them are most likely caused by an BIOS update.

@Dell-SreejithR
Can you escalate this to the right person? Or should we all just try to deal with it on our own. Maybe with some workaround and manual fan settings? I would prefer the first option.

Moderator
Moderator

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

@A_Kri,

 

I have escalated this to the product team & have shared the links you have posted. However, I do not have an ETA on this.

 

 

Dell-SreejithRamesh
Social Media Support
#IWork4Dell
To help us troubleshoot, send us via a private message: Dell PC or Monitor Service Tag number
Out of Warranty Support
Would you like to be a Dell Community Rockstar?

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A_Kri
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

Here are some more users that complain about the fan issues.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/b4abhh/dell_9570_fan_constantly_switches_on_and_off/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/b4iiwr/xps_9570_fan_noise/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/avbp8d/dell_xps15_9570_181_system_bios/ehnciyp/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/aeu2xx/xps_9570_bios_17_is_here/edwv7bi/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/aeu2xx/xps_9570_bios_17_is_here/edtfy08/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/b2flqg/dell_9570_freezing_and_fan_noise/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/akglnm/dell_xps_15_9570_fans_on_at_low_temps/

 

 

And it seems that some dell representitives try to help with the same suggestions over and over again. Try reinstalling IDPTF and so on.

Is this normal that dell representatives are not aware of this issue?

Not one time I saw a post like:

"Yeah we are currently looking into this issue. It was mentioned by others before"

 

I would guess, this work of collecting information about a specific issue from as many different users as possible, should be done by dell representatives?

 

Is there one specific person from dell assigned to this issue?

Otherwise the mods waste the time of the users and their own.

@Dell-SreejithR @Dell-Alan D @dell-robert p  (I saw you commenting on fan issues before)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For example in the case of the DPC issue there are:

- https://twitter.com/AzorFrank

- https://twitter.com/maknelly90

They collect information and report the progress.

A_Kri
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

Status Update:


After the issue got escalated, I got this message in return:
"We had escalated this to the product team & we were not able to replicate the issue anywhere. Since the issue you have is that there is a fan blast every few seconds (which is not loud) & is not affecting the performance.

If you still observe the issue, we can have the system picked up for service & ensure that this is resolved at the earliest."

I am not willing to send my notebook in. I don't have the time to be some weeks without any Notebook.

Dell can't replicate the issue or does not want to recognize it.

There are many other users with the same issue and I collected countless posts here in this topic

 

I asked @DCFAdmin @Dell-SreejithR if he can reach out to those other users. Unfortuantely he can't:
"Unlike earlier, we do not have an option to reach out to a customer directly on the forum as this is assigned to us through a tool."

 

If somebody with the same issue is able to send his XPS to Dell for further research, please contact @DCFAdmin or @Dell-SreejithR 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not optimistic anymore that this will be resolved.

Next time buying a device or recommending it, I will definitely avoid DELL.

"Ohh whats this nice device that you have?" - "Forget it, its not nice, buy something else!!!"

And this goes for everything:

Dockstation? Rather not DELL

Monitor? Rather not DELL

...

Because, if they have such issues in one of their top product line, how is the situation for customers with low- or mid-tier devices. Pathetic.

And I will make more research in the forums of other brands to avoid a similar situation.

mkdr
2 Iron

Re: XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) -

This is just a JOKE... just a JOKE... READ THIS **bleep** POST:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/akngpy/incompetent_dell_devs_answer_to_bios_170_fan/

STOP LYING. STOP BEING INCOMPETENT. EVERY 9570 HAS THIS ISSUE WITH/SINCE BIOS 1.7.0 BECAUSE... IT IS SIMPLE. READ THE **bleep** POST. STOP LYING.

You changed the **bleep** bios with 1.7.0 so that any dGPU activity, even if it is just a milisecond, causes a 9 second fan hysteria, ignoring the dGPU temperatures. Reverting back to bios 1.6.0 solves the issue. Flashing back to >= 1.7.0 shows the problem again.

@A_Kri I told you btw this would happen, and they will lie to you about this that they cant reproduce this or have never got any other ticket about this.

@DCFAdmin

@Dell-SreejithR