Not sure about how long it holds a charge, but you definitely do not have to drain the batter completely before you charge it again. Once you're done with using it on battery, plug it in. Laptop lithium-ion batteries don't have memories.
Half of what he said is true but the other half is incorrect. LI-ion batteries dont have memory, but not fully discharging may also cause problems. Usually you wont see signs till later down the road.
I have a lithium Ion battery that at 60% dies because of halfway discharging it and then recharging it, my advice is when using outlet power remove the battery at fully charge and store and a cool dry place. Do not discharge completly, but when useing it discharge till advised to hibernate. This is because a full discharge will cause your computer to abruptly shut off and may corrupt system files. On the other hand a very premature recharge over time will shorten the life span.
When mine discharges to 60 percent ( roughly 15 minutes.) it goes dead. The reason for this is because when you use a LI ION it has so many cells and if a cell for a long period of time is not discharged and charge it will die. This caused by electrons being corroded off the anode plate creating a paste on the base of the battery, this paste from the electrons that dont completly go to the cathode plate.
By doing a fairly full discharge your are moving free electrons along with the electrons from the anode plate to the cathode. After followed by a full recharge you are then sending the electrons in the opposite direction back to the anode wich rebuilds the anodes structure, never to a complete 100%. but by doing this you are also moving the decayed electrons back to a state of use.
Not doing this will eventually leave you with fewer use of cells. This will causes shorter battery life for the remaining cells and shorter time length overall.
My knowledge of batteries is due to extensive training in battery maintnance for H-60 Helicopters. I hope this advise is helpful and educational.
>Half of what he said is true but the other half is incorrect LIion batteries dont have memory but not fully discharging may also cause problems
I stand by a shallow discharge for lithium batteries based on 15 years of personal experience as a PC technician and can refer you to many lithium ion articles online from experts in the field of batteries. Lithium batteries are not like NiCad and Nickel Metal Hydride batteries. Lithium batteries die from old age (the decaying process you mention quite well) and also from the effects of recycling charges and discharges. The old strategy of fully discharging worked on older batteries, but not for lithium ion cells.YMMV
Web articles and Military Publications are two different things one is based on PC users and the other is based on the Manufacturers and Inventors.
But how you treat your batteries is a a personal preference, I on the other hand cant wait for the next type of batteries yet to be released and I am not talking about Hydrogen cells either.
Web articles and Military Publications are two different things one is based on PC users and the other is based on the Manufacturers and Inventors.
But how you treat your batteries is a a personal preference, I on the other hand cant wait for the next type of batteries yet to be released and I am not talking about Hydrogen cells either.
Message Edited by nw15062 on 03-15-2004 09:46 PM
I would put more faith in information from the end user, rather from the manufacturers trying to sell the product. Just my two cents though...
>So, do these batteries need to be conditioned before they are at their peak?
They are shooting stars...brightest and strongest when first purchased. Anything you do after that is downhill. You can take them out, store them at a partial charge, but they are still going to go to the great disposal dump in the sky. Don't buy a new one until you need it.
I have never conditioned a lithium ion battery, but I did the older model batteries. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)
I especially enjoyed the stream-of- conscious/long run-on sentence from nw15062. (loved it..I could almost hear it aloud and was gasping for breath.
I agree with FFFizzle -- I am so confused.
I did google lithium ion battery maintenance as per Texuss' suggestion. One thing quite a few articles said was to charge it and if I'm not going to use it for a while, remove from the lap top and store in a cool dry place. (BTW, what does YMMV mean?)
So, do these batteries need to be conditioned before they are at their peak?
As far as my understanding is with Li Ion batteries, they have a limited lifespan whether they're used or not. Li Ion batteries have no, or very little, memory effect when compared to NiCd batteries. There are microchips in the battery pack that won't allow you to overcharge or draw the battery down to nothing. Apparently the Li batteries will become unstable with either of these conditions.
The batteries will need some conditioning before they offer peak performance. I could tell you the best way to do this, but there will be ten others telling me that I'm wrong. When it comes to my batteries, I keep a "hands-off" approach. Whether I draw the batteries down a little or a lot, I make sure they're fully charged so they're ready for the next time I use them. I don't bother removing the batteries when they're fully charged, it's just too much trouble and doesn't make sense, since they stop charging when they're full.
Some people employ rigorous recharging and discharging techniques by removing them when the fully charged and storing them in the fridge next to the milk. My theory is when they're dead, I'll buy new ones...end of story.
My preconditioning consisted of drawing them down to a 1/3 charge or so. Did that a few times, but other than that I don't worry about them. The batteries for my D600 (or any other labtop) are expensive, but I imagine that I'll be buying new ones in a couple of years. Consider it the cost of being mobile.
That's a sleek little Latitude, really nice. I set one up the other day and was impressed. I bet you get great battery life on that system. The Pentium M series is cool-running and has great performance too. You might look later into spending some money on a 1 Gigabit kit for it. For 200 bucks that baby would really fly. Too bad the 1 Gig modules are still so high.
CSmith06
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956 Posts
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March 13th, 2004 15:00
Texruss
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3.4K Posts
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March 13th, 2004 20:00
Definitely don't fully discharge your battery as that can damage it and reduce its lifespan.
See here for some tips on lithium batteries.
Texruss
gadgetgirl
62 Posts
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March 14th, 2004 02:00
Thanks for the link. I was always told that I should fully discharge batteries before recharging...
Jen
nw15062
28 Posts
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March 15th, 2004 08:00
Half of what he said is true but the other half is incorrect. LI-ion batteries dont have memory, but not fully discharging may also cause problems. Usually you wont see signs till later down the road.
I have a lithium Ion battery that at 60% dies because of halfway discharging it and then recharging it, my advice is when using outlet power remove the battery at fully charge and store and a cool dry place. Do not discharge completly, but when useing it discharge till advised to hibernate. This is because a full discharge will cause your computer to abruptly shut off and may corrupt system files. On the other hand a very premature recharge over time will shorten the life span.
When mine discharges to 60 percent ( roughly 15 minutes.) it goes dead. The reason for this is because when you use a LI ION it has so many cells and if a cell for a long period of time is not discharged and charge it will die. This caused by electrons being corroded off the anode plate creating a paste on the base of the battery, this paste from the electrons that dont completly go to the cathode plate.
By doing a fairly full discharge your are moving free electrons along with the electrons from the anode plate to the cathode. After followed by a full recharge you are then sending the electrons in the opposite direction back to the anode wich rebuilds the anodes structure, never to a complete 100%. but by doing this you are also moving the decayed electrons back to a state of use.
Not doing this will eventually leave you with fewer use of cells. This will causes shorter battery life for the remaining cells and shorter time length overall.
My knowledge of batteries is due to extensive training in battery maintnance for H-60 Helicopters. I hope this advise is helpful and educational.
Message Edited by nw15062 on 03-16-2004 09:45 AM
FFFizzle
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March 15th, 2004 09:00
Texruss
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3.4K Posts
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March 15th, 2004 10:00
>Half of what he said is true but the other half is incorrect LIion batteries dont have memory but not fully discharging may also cause problems
I stand by a shallow discharge for lithium batteries based on 15 years of personal experience as a PC technician and can refer you to many lithium ion articles online from experts in the field of batteries. Lithium batteries are not like NiCad and Nickel Metal Hydride batteries. Lithium batteries die from old age (the decaying process you mention quite well) and also from the effects of recycling charges and discharges. The old strategy of fully discharging worked on older batteries, but not for lithium ion cells.YMMV
All the best,
Texruss
nw15062
28 Posts
0
March 15th, 2004 10:00
Web articles and Military Publications are two different things one is based on PC users and the other is based on the Manufacturers and Inventors.
But how you treat your batteries is a a personal preference, I on the other hand cant wait for the next type of batteries yet to be released and I am not talking about Hydrogen cells either.
Message Edited by nw15062 on 03-15-2004 09:46 PM
matt37b
134 Posts
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March 15th, 2004 11:00
I would put more faith in information from the end user, rather from the manufacturers trying to sell the product. Just my two cents though...
Texruss
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March 15th, 2004 12:00
>would put more faith in information from the end user
Try a search on Googlenet for this term: shallow discharge lithium
I think you'll find knowledgeable users (non-vendors) who recommend against a full discharge of lithium ion batteries. YMMV.
Texruss
gadgetgirl
62 Posts
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March 15th, 2004 14:00
Hi Matt37b,
You can't leaving me hanging...please tell me how you condition your batteries...
BTW, good point on the not being able to overcharge, etc.
Thanks.
Texruss
2 Intern
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3.4K Posts
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March 15th, 2004 14:00
>So, do these batteries need to be conditioned before they are at their peak?
They are shooting stars...brightest and strongest when first purchased. Anything you do after that is downhill. You can take them out, store them at a partial charge, but they are still going to go to the great disposal dump in the sky. Don't buy a new one until you need it.
I have never conditioned a lithium ion battery, but I did the older model batteries. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)
Cheers,
Texruss
gadgetgirl
62 Posts
0
March 15th, 2004 14:00
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the great input...
I especially enjoyed the stream-of- conscious/long run-on sentence from nw15062.
(loved it..I could almost hear it aloud and was gasping for breath.
I agree with FFFizzle -- I am so confused.
I did google lithium ion battery maintenance as per Texuss' suggestion. One thing quite a few articles said was to charge it and if I'm not going to use it for a while, remove from the lap top and store in a cool dry place. (BTW, what does YMMV mean?)
So, do these batteries need to be conditioned before they are at their peak?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Jen
matt37b
134 Posts
0
March 15th, 2004 14:00
As far as my understanding is with Li Ion batteries, they have a limited lifespan whether they're used or not. Li Ion batteries have no, or very little, memory effect when compared to NiCd batteries. There are microchips in the battery pack that won't allow you to overcharge or draw the battery down to nothing. Apparently the Li batteries will become unstable with either of these conditions.
The batteries will need some conditioning before they offer peak performance. I could tell you the best way to do this, but there will be ten others telling me that I'm wrong. When it comes to my batteries, I keep a "hands-off" approach. Whether I draw the batteries down a little or a lot, I make sure they're fully charged so they're ready for the next time I use them. I don't bother removing the batteries when they're fully charged, it's just too much trouble and doesn't make sense, since they stop charging when they're full.
Some people employ rigorous recharging and discharging techniques by removing them when the fully charged and storing them in the fridge next to the milk. My theory is when they're dead, I'll buy new ones...end of story.
Message Edited by matt37b on 03-15-2004 11:55 AM
matt37b
134 Posts
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March 15th, 2004 14:00
Texruss
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March 15th, 2004 15:00
>my D600
That's a sleek little Latitude, really nice. I set one up the other day and was impressed. I bet you get great battery life on that system. The Pentium M series is cool-running and has great performance too. You might look later into spending some money on a 1 Gigabit kit for it. For 200 bucks that baby would really fly. Too bad the 1 Gig modules are still so high.
All the best,
Texruss