Start a Conversation

Unsolved

A

28 Posts

77337

January 19th, 2019 10:00

XPS-15-9570 (Bios 1.7) - Fan 3sec On-Off Issue on Idle dGPU

My XPS 15 9570 is from October 2018 and has all the latest Updates.

The fans are constantly running on AC-charging. Thats fine. I understand, that the XPS gets a little hotter whle charging, so I am Ok with the fan noise.
While on AC without charging (I limit the charge to 90% in the Power Manager and start only if below 75%) the fans kick in sometimes on little load. And if the load stays, the fans are also constantly on. Thats also fine.

But the really annoying thing is when the fans go on and off in an approximately 3 second cycle.

After BIOS 1.7 I noticed that the fans kick in on Battery when the dGPU is activated. So for example I start Lightroom and the nvidia card activates.-> The fans go on and off in an never ending cycle. (They end, when I exit lightroom).

CPU Temps: 42-43°C  Idle with usage below 10%

GPU Temps: 40°C        Idle with 0% usage

Screenshot_for_FanNoise.png

I tried the Temperature/Fan-Control in the Power Manager. There is no difference between Optimized-Mode, Quiet Mode or the Ultra Performance Mode.

Before BIOS 1.7 I didn't notice such a behaviour. It is like the fan curve was equipped with an extra setting to start the fans whenever the dGPU is on without looking at the temperature.

So they are going like crazy "The dGPU is on, we must turn" ....3sec later.... "But we are cool now. Turn off the fans" ....repeat_from_beginning.

Is it possible to let the fans kick in only if the CPU or GPU is over 60°C and let them run until they are below 50°C. I can't think of how a short burst of fan power could make a positive impact on cooling the device. Sometimes the CPU is just used for a second to turn on an application and therefore goes just above ~50°C for a very short time. The fans start to spin a burst. Then the CPU goes Idle and and the temps are again below ~50°C. And they would reached it even without fans. But thats another issue.

 

EDIT: I posted this video of the described issue on the second page. Just want to add it here in the first post for completion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_w4lRP7rCo

1 Message

January 25th, 2019 13:00

Hi,

I just did the upgrade to bios 1.7 and got the exact same problem. I had also installed CAM software to monitor temperature and it was that software causing the issue. Once uninstalled all went back to normal like it was before. No more on and off fans every 3 seconds.

 

Hope this helps !

28 Posts

January 26th, 2019 06:00

I just tried it without any monitoring application. I even closed Throttlestop because it also provides temperature information.

Restarted.

Waited till any windows task was finished so that no load on the CPU was present.

Opened lightroom.

Same issue.

Nvidia card is used. Therefore the fans are on.

The only difference I kinda noticed was that now there is no 3sec fan-off time. The moment the fan goes silent, it immediately starts spinning again.

 

In short, the issue is still there and I don't think Dell will even bother to look into it.

I am just hoping that in one of the next BIOS updates they just change something which will have a positive impact on my described issue.

489 Posts

January 26th, 2019 13:00

I think there was a solution or workaround in another thread, something like setting the GPU performance mode from Maximum to Optimized or such. 

28 Posts

January 28th, 2019 04:00

I just tried it. And it kinda changes something.

Now the fans don't start immediately. After 15-20 seconds the first fan burst starts. From there on it is like it was before. So it does not solve the issue. 

Besides 'adaptiv' i also had tried the mode 'controlled by nvidia driver'. Also not the solution.

 

adaptiv.jpg

February 7th, 2019 02:00

Hi, unfortunately I have the Same problem as you do with bios1.7.0.

I did however found a workaround solution on this problem back when I was still in bios 1.6.0; to change the thermal management setting under Dell power manager app to ultra performance, and my device keep silent under light to medium load even on AC power.

Sadly this method doesn't seem to work anymore, at least not for me. But maybe you can try and see if it helps. Cheers

28 Posts

February 11th, 2019 07:00

Yeah, this method doesn't work for me either.

12 Posts

March 12th, 2019 05:00

I have this issue also on my XPS-15-9570 on bios 1.7. Think it the problem was also in bios 1.6. Cpu temps a 42C on all cores and fan start spinning up slow for 5 seconds and then back to silent. Sometimes they give a short pulse to max for a few seconds and back to off. Any dell representative can look into this issue?

4 Operator

 • 

3.4K Posts

March 12th, 2019 07:00

Thank you for your message. I will be glad to assist you with this.

 

Does this happen only when the AC adapter is connected & the system is not charged (fully charged)

 

Is the issue observed when you are running a non-CPU/ GPU intensive application?

 

Download & save the following drivers to your desktop screen.

Intel Chipset device software driver

Intel Dynamic Platform & Thermal Framework driver (IDPTF)

BIOS (even if you have the latest version)

 

Open device manager – expand IDPTF- right click on the driver & click on uninstall (check the box that says delete driver) do not restart the computer. Install the Chipset driver followed by the IDPTF & BIOS.

 

For my reference, please click on the message tab next to your avatar– click “New Message” & search for my Dell username (Sreejith R) & send a private message with the service tag, registered name & email address.

 

How to locate the service tag

 

Thanks, 

 Sreejith 

28 Posts

March 12th, 2019 09:00

Hi Sreejith,

Current Status:
-BIOS 1.8.1
-All Drivers up to date
-Windows 10 1809 everything up to date
-Dell Power Manager on "Optimized Mode" for fan control
-Nvidia control settings for energy mode are set to "adaptive"

The behaviour while on AC is described in the first post of this thread.


@A_Kri wrote:

The fans are constantly running on AC-charging. Thats fine. I understand, that the XPS gets a little hotter whle charging, so I am Ok with the fan noise.
While on AC without charging (I limit the charge to 90% in the Power Manager and start only if below 75%) the fans kick in sometimes on little load. And if the load stays, the fans are also constantly on. Thats also fine.


It isn't really an issue with intensive applications.
Just when the nvidia gpu is active. And it doesn't have to be on load. If I start lightroom and just don't do anything, there is no load. But the fan issue is there.
I don't know how to activate the dGPU with no load in another way?

I will now try to reinstall the drivers that you mentioned.
If will update if it solves the issue.


Some other issues:
--------
Currently my left fan does make some constant grinding noise. Started a few weeks ago. This makes the whole fan noise problem more annoying.
On the other hand I don't here the coil whine when the fan is running. WOW.
The Killer-WiFi card does not connect always after waking up from Standby. I have to go in hibernate or restart so that it works again. On reddit there was a guy who said, DELL changed his wfi card from Killer to Intel. Maybe this will work for me too.
The hinge also seems to be problematic. If I hold the notebook closed in one hand at the hinge, so that the opening shows straight in the air, it is constantly clapping. The first 2mm seem to be just too loose. On this one I don't know if its just normal respectively a design flaw.

Fan, Coil-Whine, WiFi, Hinge

In the case of this hardware issues I will get in touch with DELL because I have Premium Support until October. This should include on site repair?

But I am currently busy and need my notebook to function for the next month. After that Dell can start to repair it. Its too much risk for me to let someone try to repair it and maybe bricking the whole unit.

Its just stressing too have that many bugs on such a device. I really like the XPS. Its like having a super car, but there is constant oil leaking, radio issues, flat tyres, ... and you have to work a lot to have it function properly. In its basic function it still runs, but you have that feeling that it will eventually fail.
--------

I will send you a message with my service tag

 

28 Posts

March 12th, 2019 10:00


@SreejithR wrote:

Download & save the following drivers to your desktop screen.

Intel Chipset device software driver

Intel Dynamic Platform & Thermal Framework driver (IDPTF)

BIOS (even if you have the latest version)

 

Open device manager – expand IDPTF- right click on the driver & click on uninstall (check the box that says delete driver) do not restart the computer. Install the Chipset driver followed by the IDPTF & BIOS.


I uninstalled everything related to IDPTF. I marked it on the photo

Anmerkung 2019-03-12 180156.jpg

I did not restart.

I installed the Chipset driver.

Then I tried to install the IDPTF. Issue. Not working.

Had to restart after chipset driver.

After restart, I could install IDPTF.

After that I restarted another time.

And then I flashed the BIOS 1.8.1 again.

I then waited after the Notebook was quite again. So no Windows things would have an impact on the load.

Started Lightroom. Nvidia kicks in. And so do the fans, in the described way. on and off.

Issue is still there.

 

28 Posts

March 13th, 2019 06:00

Short video clip of the issue. SreejithR asked for it yesterday

In this clip I put my phone as a microphone near the fan. So it is easier to hear it. The mic on my camera doesn't pick up the sound well.

In real life it is not too loud. It is like the loweset setting of the fan. The issue is just that it is constantly switching on and off, therefore it is much more obtrusive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_w4lRP7rCo

 

EDIT: On the left side near the WIFI symbol in the tray, you can see the when the nvidia card is active. That info is from the nvidia control panel. The blue temperature is for CPU and the green for the nvidia card. It shows zero when in idle mode. 

12 Posts

March 13th, 2019 07:00

PCH.png

I'm not sure this is the same as your issue but when connecting a WD16 dock the Temp6 goes from ~38C to 50C on Temp6 in HWInfo. Fans start when it hit around 42C which is way to early in my oppinion. My guess it is the PCH chip but thats just a guess from reading other ppl's observations.

I just get the feeling that Dell programmed the fan curves to start the fans on too low temps. With the XPS 9570 hardware design it's impossible to get a silent computer with those fan curves.

 

28 Posts

March 19th, 2019 05:00

After many troubleshooting steps there is still no solution.

The IDPTF and BIOS have been reinstalled.

For @SreejithR “This seems to be more of an issue with the driver settings & not a hardware issue. The G   PU is well within temperature here.“ (‎03-12-2019 11:31 AM)

I am also convinced that this has something to do with dells fan management rather than a hardware issue.

I had to go back to Nvidia driver 397.93 from Mai 2018. and confirm that the issue still persists. Because that is the latest driver Dell provides. The behaviour doesn`t change with the more recent nvidia drivers, which tells me that the issue is not on nvidias site?

I had to run the hardware test from the Support Assist tool, and there is no error reported.

Later I confirmed one more time that this issue occurs only without AC connected. Because when AC is connected, the fans just run constantly.

Sreejith did some lab testing with other dell engineers and “[…]the system is not finding an issue with the fan rpm & is working normally to dissipate heat. We tested a system with the same driver & BIOS version but could not replicate the fan noise issue irrespective of the load on the system.” (‎03-14-2019 07:13 AM)

I had then to check if the issue occurs in windows safe mode. The fans are just always running in safe mode. The XPS is on complete idle, without any application running. In safe mode I can’t tell for sure if the nvidia driver is working fine. Lightroom crashes. So, in short:

I can’t replicate the issue in safe mode, but only due to improper work of almost everything inside the safe mode.

4 Days ago (‎03-15-2019 11:35 AM) was the last message from SreejithR and he was indicating after I tried the safe mode that “If the issue persists, I can set up a service to have the system checked a per your warranty.”  

 

Here are some similar described issues from other users:

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6097749/highlight/true#M12415

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6224058/highlight/true#M21265

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/7260757/highlight/true#M26147

And a comment under my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_w4lRP7rCo&lc=UgywB_Im00qX4GaBuVR4AaABAg

 

Another dell representative @Dell-Alan D  is saying that it is working just fine:

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6098100/highlight/true#M12428

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/Extreme-fan-noise-on-XPS-9570/m-p/6098144/highlight/true#M12434

 

In my eyes this is the result of Dells aggressive fan curve temperature management. Apple and Lenovo seem to handle this a bit better. They allow their machines with similar power and chassis design to run a bit hotter before the fans start to spin.

But even if Dell does not want to change this threshold, there is still some kind of a bug where the fans are vacillating over whether they should spin or not.

It would be nice if at least this could be fixed.

Maybe this just needs more attention like in the 48°C nvidia bug where notebookcheck.com (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Some-Dell-XPS-15-9570-laptops-may-have-a-BIOS-related-GPU-bug.355026.0.html) had to write an article about it and dell decided after a while, Ok guys now we can start solving this issue. Before that it was just an issue of an individual so they didn’t care.

reddit.com/r/dell could also be beneficial for more attention. But does it really has to be such a hassle to get fine working PC?

28 Posts

March 20th, 2019 09:00

I got another message from @SreejithR:
"If the fan runs normally or constantly it could be an issue with the application in the background. Please try a clean boot in normal mode, disable all option including the anti-virus.

If the issue persists, please share a 30-minute video running HWinfo with the AC adapter connected & then a 30-minute video with the system on battery." (03-19-2019 12:38 PM)

I disabled everything I could find. No dropbox, no Onedrive, no GoogleDrive, no AntiVir from Windows. Clean start.
Just opened HWINFO and selected some interesting Graphs.

So I made a new video:
https://youtu.be/9Qo3l8Tjnzg

30 min with AC (The fans are always one despite the low temperatures)
10 min only Battery (The fans go off, and stay off)
10 min with dGPU active (The fans are crazy)

The .CSV data I only sent to @SreejithR. I don't know if it is a good idea to share them with everyone? Like the service tag...

 


From the video description:

@00:00 - the AC run starts. The temps are ~40°C and the fans are always on with ~2500rpm

@31:00 the AC is unplugged and the Battery run starts. After 10 minutes I stop because everything is fine. And its just a waste of time.

@42:00 I start lightroom to activate the nvidia GPU. I don't know another way of doing it.
I wait until some heat is in the machine.
It warms up, cools down, and settles in the neighborhood of 45°C
This is more of a normal temperature while using the machine. Instead of the first minutes were nothing happend on complete idle.

@46:40 Here the described issue can be observed very good. The windows for the fans are the two located on the left side. Second from the bottom.
Normal operating temperature, but the fans go on and off.
Sometimes they do it on their own, sometimes they are triggered by a mouse click or any interaction with the notebook. First I try zooming in the picture in and out, or just selcting the next picture. At the end of the video I try clicking around in the operating system. The notification bar, taskbar, ....

@49:09 I remembered the GPU temp. So I opended the window for it to show. But it is basically on its lowest possible temperature

28 Posts

March 21st, 2019 12:00

I guess all my work to document this issue was unnecessary?
After you told me to use HWiNFO, I found the fan control option. Then I did a little bit of research of how it can be used.

I found this:
https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-REQUEST-Write-to-EC-manual-fan-control-on-Dell-XPS-laptops

And the interesting part is, the reason why all those people try to manipulate the fan curve.
They link to the following reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/akngpy/incompetent_dell_devs_answer_to_bios_170_fan/

There the whole issue, I tried to show you, is already described.

And there is a link, again to another notebookcheck.net article.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-resolves-the-XPS-15-9570-NVIDIA-GPU-issue-with-BIOS-1-7.393841.0.html

In this article it says that they reached out to Dell:
"Furthermore, BIOS 1.7 appears to have introduced a couple of issues too that are worth keeping in mind before upgrading. The fans now turn on for up to 10 seconds any time that the NVIDIA GPU is activated, and even if the system is running coolly. "

And later in the update:
"Update
Perhaps predictably, Dell has denied that there is an issue with the fans in some XPS 15 9570 laptops turning on whenever the NVIDIA GPU is activated. A representative remarked that:

...it is normal for the fan to run even before reaching the temperature threshold. This has been verified by our product engineering team. This should not affect the functionality of the computer. The system behavior is as per the BIOS instructions.


The same representative then clarified that:

I believe that there are no hardware issues related to the GPU or the fan. I have verified this with our product engineering team, and it is working as designed.

Dell has not stated at what temperature threshold the fans should switch on, but it is disappointing to note that Dell is happy with the fans "to run even before reaching the temperature threshold". However, multiple people on the XPS 15 9570 Owners Thread on NotebookReview have remarked that the fans now turn on whenever the NVIDIA GPU is activated and not when the system reaches a certain temperature."


What the **bleep** dell?
Just look at all the topics about fan issues. Almost all of them are most likely caused by an BIOS update.

@SreejithR
Can you escalate this to the right person? Or should we all just try to deal with it on our own. Maybe with some workaround and manual fan settings? I would prefer the first option.

No Events found!

Top