Monitors

Last reply by 12-30-2014 Solved
Start a Discussion
2 Bronze
2 Bronze
148448

U2713H desturated adobeRGB colors

Hello Dell community,

I have purchased a U2713H monitor, I am trying to use it in a preset AdobeRGB monitor mode (didn't purchased colorimeter yet), but in color managed applications colors are a quite desaturated, especially in red channel.

How it is configured: Win8.1 64b, Nvidia 560Ti, DVI port cable, Dell U2713H 6500K.icm color profile set for monitor in windows controls. Dell monitor set to AdobeRGB OSD preset.

What it does: Color managed apps like LR, PS and color managed browsers shows desaturation especially in red channel. In non managed sRGB apps, colors look right (compared to other sRGB devices I own), no oversaturation is present.

If I switch a GPU (windows icm profile) to sRGB, all colors managed / nonmanaged are matched, but I suppose there is no wide gamut displayed than.

As I understand it from what I have "researched" on the internet, wide gamut monitors should display precise colors only in managed applications and oversaturate non managed ones. It appears behavior of my monitor is exactly the opposite, precise colors in nonmanaged, desaturation in managed.

Any ideas what could go wrong?

Solutions (3)

Accepted Solutions
4 Tellurium
5648

"Dell U2713H 6500K.icm" is a profile for native gamut of your GB-LED monitor. Native gamut has "extended/oversaturated red" (Standard/Custom OSD modes but they have not D65 white, maybe custom mode with R100 G91, B97).

If you want to use precalibrated OSD modes in color managed enviroment without a proper calibration and measurement, you should use the standar profile that describes this preset. In your case it is "AdobeRGB1998.icm" of AdobeRGB mode or "sRGB Color Space Profile.icm" (or similar name) os sRGB mode.

If you have not AdobeRGB1998.icm in your system you can obtain a free clone in ArgyllCMS calibration package ("ref" directory):
http://www.argyllcms.com/


View solution in original post

4 Tellurium
5648

An icm file is a file with the description of the color behaviour of some device: gamut, gamma... such things. As an aditional feature it can contain VCGT info to calibrate (neutral grey ramp) in GPU a monitor.

AdobeRGB1998.icm is a STANDARD profile that decribes a colorspace with particular RGB coordinates, white point and gamma.
For a display it is recomended that its applied profile contains ACTUAL values of gamut and gamma. It it done with a measurement device (spectrophotomer, colorimeter..). But you have not ths device so your ONLY choice is to trust in factory calibration. I mean that STANDARD AdobeRGB profile were very very close to actual AdobeRGB OSD behavior.
Same applies to sRGB, same applies to standard gamut displays and "display's driver" icm.

About factory calibration. It is done at absurd default values os contrast and brightness (50%) so its calibrated to ~200cd/m2 or more. If you change one of these values white point will drift (perhaps a little, perhaps too much).
Try how they look with Brightness 20-30% and defalut contrast 50%.

Regarding xrite device, I do not kno if OEM devices will work, I have a retail one.
It seems that i1Pro/i1Pro2 spectrophotometers will work with Dell Color Calibration solution 1.5 or newer, BUT they will measure wrong ANY LED MONITOR. It's not Dell's or software's fault, the culprit its the low optical resolution of i1Pro spectrophotometers (10nm, so they miss blue measumement).
A retail i1DisplayPro colorimeter will measure flawlessly out of the box.

A final note: Dell Color Calibration solution 1.5.3 (Dell's applitation for LUT3D calibration, a customized Xrite's i1Profiler)  still has some flaws and Dell (or xRite) does not care: it needs more black to R,G,B, measuremets to caracterize native gamma properly in order to minimice color cast in grey gramps. Current state is "acceptable" but no optimal. Application should take 15 o 20 measurements from black to each 4 colors in order to do it properly. As I said previously Dell does not care, reported months ago...



I forget to say something about:

Would both work with Dell's calibration software? Are there other compatible HW options, which could be used with other monitors as well in the future?

Yes, i1DisplayPro it's "future proof" because it works with spectral corrections. Even if Dell or ofer manufacturer does not give you software for this colorimeter if will work with free software like ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI (GPU calibration , not LUT3D calibration) and community spectral corrections or Xrite ones (OLED.. and such). It's too long fro explain here how spectral correctiosn work but think of them as numerical correctiosn applied to actual measurements of the colorimeter. Each backlight technology needs its spectral correction to be properly measured with a colorimeter. They are files storing power for each wavelenght from red to violet for a particular backlight technology: GBLED, WLED, OLED, CCFL..


View solution in original post

4 Tellurium
5648

This behaviour seems to be caused by faulty color enhancements in your GPU, like nvidia's digital vibrance. Disable ALL of them

Do not use "Native", since native will aim to native white (maxime contrast) whicj is not a "daylight" white but a green-cyan one.


If in doubt create ICM v2 profile with DCCS and validate it with ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI and "RG_phosphor" spectral correction (SEARCH in this forum how to do this, it has been posted too many times), and also calibrate "Custom color" OSD mode with ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI (it will be stored in graphics card, not in monitor's LUT3D) with "RG_phosphor" correction in order to see it there is someting weird with DCCS or its your fault (missconfiguration) or your computers fault, or even faluty monitor.


View solution in original post

Replies (20)
4 Tellurium
5649

"Dell U2713H 6500K.icm" is a profile for native gamut of your GB-LED monitor. Native gamut has "extended/oversaturated red" (Standard/Custom OSD modes but they have not D65 white, maybe custom mode with R100 G91, B97).

If you want to use precalibrated OSD modes in color managed enviroment without a proper calibration and measurement, you should use the standar profile that describes this preset. In your case it is "AdobeRGB1998.icm" of AdobeRGB mode or "sRGB Color Space Profile.icm" (or similar name) os sRGB mode.

If you have not AdobeRGB1998.icm in your system you can obtain a free clone in ArgyllCMS calibration package ("ref" directory):
http://www.argyllcms.com/


2 Bronze
2 Bronze
5648

Thank you yumichan, you nailed it.

I suppose, I should made more reading, before buying a wide gamut monitor. I have tried both icm profiles according to OSD modes and the colors looks about right now, they are probably far from precise, but at least I don't see a strong tint.

Dell U2713H 6500K.icm is set as monitor profile during installing Dell drivers. There was no information in manual, that precalibrated modes shouldn't be used with it. I already have tried AdobeRGB1998 and noticed the color change, but have read somwhere, that it is intended for printing and should not be used for monitors.

Can you please explain how factory calibration setting of a new monitor happens for precalibrated profiles?When new monitor is factory calibrated, do they measuring (with some HW device) and set precalibrated OSD modes (sRGB, AdobeRGB) against according icm standard profiles? Or is there some preset OSD calibration, which is copied 1:1 in all new monitors without further measuring? 

I think I am now ready to buy XRite i1Display Pro for hw calibration. I noticed there is an "OEM" version and "RETAIL". Would both work with Dell's calibration software? Are there other compatible HW options, which could be used with other monitors as well in the future?

Thanks in advance for bringing the light.

4 Tellurium
5649

An icm file is a file with the description of the color behaviour of some device: gamut, gamma... such things. As an aditional feature it can contain VCGT info to calibrate (neutral grey ramp) in GPU a monitor.

AdobeRGB1998.icm is a STANDARD profile that decribes a colorspace with particular RGB coordinates, white point and gamma.
For a display it is recomended that its applied profile contains ACTUAL values of gamut and gamma. It it done with a measurement device (spectrophotomer, colorimeter..). But you have not ths device so your ONLY choice is to trust in factory calibration. I mean that STANDARD AdobeRGB profile were very very close to actual AdobeRGB OSD behavior.
Same applies to sRGB, same applies to standard gamut displays and "display's driver" icm.

About factory calibration. It is done at absurd default values os contrast and brightness (50%) so its calibrated to ~200cd/m2 or more. If you change one of these values white point will drift (perhaps a little, perhaps too much).
Try how they look with Brightness 20-30% and defalut contrast 50%.

Regarding xrite device, I do not kno if OEM devices will work, I have a retail one.
It seems that i1Pro/i1Pro2 spectrophotometers will work with Dell Color Calibration solution 1.5 or newer, BUT they will measure wrong ANY LED MONITOR. It's not Dell's or software's fault, the culprit its the low optical resolution of i1Pro spectrophotometers (10nm, so they miss blue measumement).
A retail i1DisplayPro colorimeter will measure flawlessly out of the box.

A final note: Dell Color Calibration solution 1.5.3 (Dell's applitation for LUT3D calibration, a customized Xrite's i1Profiler)  still has some flaws and Dell (or xRite) does not care: it needs more black to R,G,B, measuremets to caracterize native gamma properly in order to minimice color cast in grey gramps. Current state is "acceptable" but no optimal. Application should take 15 o 20 measurements from black to each 4 colors in order to do it properly. As I said previously Dell does not care, reported months ago...



I forget to say something about:

Would both work with Dell's calibration software? Are there other compatible HW options, which could be used with other monitors as well in the future?

Yes, i1DisplayPro it's "future proof" because it works with spectral corrections. Even if Dell or ofer manufacturer does not give you software for this colorimeter if will work with free software like ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI (GPU calibration , not LUT3D calibration) and community spectral corrections or Xrite ones (OLED.. and such). It's too long fro explain here how spectral correctiosn work but think of them as numerical correctiosn applied to actual measurements of the colorimeter. Each backlight technology needs its spectral correction to be properly measured with a colorimeter. They are files storing power for each wavelenght from red to violet for a particular backlight technology: GBLED, WLED, OLED, CCFL..


2 Bronze
2 Bronze
5648

Hello

It seems i am experiencing similar problems, but reading this thread still do not understand what to do, why it works so..with not a cheap calibrations device and good monitor..

I am trying to make calibration of my U2713H monitor with Dell Color Calibration solution (1.5.3) and i1 Display Pro. it already took couple of days of tries, playing with versions of the program and calibrations. In some cases i get unusable (really ugly and unusable) result with some error message that target luminance can not be achieved. Then i just make factory reset of monitor settings and start calibration again. If i get not error - i get some profile. Then i check before/after colors - and i see that most of reds, magentas, oranges, greens, cyans - almost all the colors, except may be blues, become desaturated. for calibration I select "luminance 120" and "native" of "AdobeRGB" settings.  Does something goes wrong, or this is normal behavior?

I do not understand the logic of this... If i buy the monitor, which is capable to reproduce the extended amount of colors (wide-gammut monitor) - and calibrator with a task to make the screen to show colors correctly - WHY i have desaturated colors after calibration, like if they would be converted into norrower color space?

Guys, how it works? I have read a lot of.. but not i do not understand - if my monitors show correct colors, of this is calibrations software/hardware problem?

By the way, CCS version 1.5 caused conflict with Canon Digital Photo Professional v4 - colors became completely wrong (like if the images were converted into 8 or 16-colors mode..). After un-installation of the color calibration solution everything back to normal.

4 Tellurium
5649

This behaviour seems to be caused by faulty color enhancements in your GPU, like nvidia's digital vibrance. Disable ALL of them

Do not use "Native", since native will aim to native white (maxime contrast) whicj is not a "daylight" white but a green-cyan one.


If in doubt create ICM v2 profile with DCCS and validate it with ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI and "RG_phosphor" spectral correction (SEARCH in this forum how to do this, it has been posted too many times), and also calibrate "Custom color" OSD mode with ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI (it will be stored in graphics card, not in monitor's LUT3D) with "RG_phosphor" correction in order to see it there is someting weird with DCCS or its your fault (missconfiguration) or your computers fault, or even faluty monitor.


2 Bronze
2 Bronze
5648

Thanks for the explanation. Just had a look at NVIDIA control panel - and yes, there is "Digital vibrance" slider set to 50%. But there is not option to disable it - only to adjust from 0 (BW) to 100%...

Will make re-calibration with AdobeRGB settings and then try to play with Argyll..

4 Tellurium
5648

Make a clean install of nvidia drivers, "digital vibrance" should be set at 0% without going black & white. Which GPU do you have?


2 Bronze
2 Bronze
5648

Re-installed the video driver. Nothing changed - saturation 0 = BW. 

I have NVIDIA GPX 650 videocard.

4 Tellurium
5648

Try with another computer since your issues "seems" at first guess to be caused by your GPU.

To work with photography or illustration ALWAYS choose an AMD (former ATI) graphic card or a nvidia Quadro, nor a regular nvidia.


Latest Solutions
Top Contributor