FF 27 + Sandboxie + "3rd Party" conflict

I don't use FF as my default browser, but after reading this thread (and the one over at the sandboxie forum) I checked that FF 26 was opening OK in sandboxie/XP-SP3. After upgrading to FF 27 internally tonight, I am seeing no problems opening it sandboxed (as some others are also reporting).

Since nobody is reporting similar problems with other browsers, the conflict (if it hasn't been fixed already) would seem to be with FF 27 only, but not with all of its users. Makes one wonder if maybe some FF plug-ins might account for the difference (I use very few).

Joe,

I thank you for taking the time to test the matter and report back.   The fact that you have no problem allows me to say we indeed have a confirmed report of this :emotion-5:

Since FF 26+ Sandboxie worked on my XP3 system, but not FF 27, the immediate presumption is that FF27 changed something.   Realizing that I also updated Flash Player, I uninstalled Flash to test that possibility.   Without any Flash, FF27+Sandboxie exhibited the same problem.   As such, I concluded Flash was not the problem, and so I've reinstalled it.

I've considered your suggestion that it might be another plug-in.   The only contra-indicator being that no other plug-ins were changed, and everything worked for me with FF 26.

Is a puzzlement.

Question for Joe:   Which A/V is on the XP system you tested (for which FF27 ran sandboxed)? --- I'm asking because someone has conjectured that the fault may be in avast's plug-in...

Thanks.

I'm not at my avast system at the moment... but which check it out later this afternoon.

I'm using Emsisoft Anti-Malware (paid) for real-time AV protection on my XP system currently.

Unfortunately I am having problems with Sandboxie and FF 27. BTW it is definitely FF 27. This is what I did.

SB 4.0.6 + FF 26   OK

SB 4.0.6 + FF 27   FF does not open

SB 4.0.8 + FF 26    OK

SB 4.0.8 + FF 27   FF does not open

SB 4.0.8 + FF 26 + avast!/AOS   OK

SB 4.0.8 + FF 27 - NO avast ( Uninstall )  FF does not open

So it is FF 27. The thing is that FF is active. You can see it in Task Manager as ANONIMOUS LOGON but it does not open. BTW IE 8 works any combination mentioned above.

As far as I'm concerned, my testing has ruled-out  the new Flash Player, Avast's browser/security plugin, and EMET (& MBAE --- which I tested, even though it does NOT inject itself into Sandboxie)... as well as Sandboxie's Drop Rights option.

On the other hand, the fact that FF27 runs in Sandboxie for people like Joe, indicates the problem is not simply caused by FF27 in-and-of-itself.

Most perplexing.  

The FF27 thread in the Sandboxie Forum is now on page 6.   We have no official resolution.   Just a lot of strong opinions, the most common of which insists the problem is avast... which it is NOT!

Here's what I hope may be an important clue in helping us find our way to a solution:

On my WinXP3 Pro SP1 (32 bit) system, with Avast 2014.9.0.2008, if I change Firefox's Properties so as to make it run in Windows 2000 Compatibility Mode, then it opens and appears to run well in Sandboxie!

Interestingly, Win2000 is NOT among the supported operating systems for FF27. I do not know what changes this workaround forces onto FF+Sandboxie... in particular, whether or not the modern/full security of either program is breached. [Perhaps BB or someone else can enlighten us here.]  So while others may want to test this configuration, you should do so with caution.

My goal in reporting here is to see if this helps anyone else discover the real issue/conflict.

================

To implement this workaround, navigate your way to the FF program, which for XP, is located in C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox.
RIGHT-click on firefox.exe , select PROPERTIES, click on the COMPATIBILITY tab, check the box to "Run this program in Comparability Mode for", and select Windows 2000 from the drop-down menu. Click APPLY and then OKAY. Then try to run FF in Sandboxie, and see if this works for you.

"Like you I only use Sandboxie if necessary..."

Given that XP will no longer be supported by Microsoft in another few months, I'm giving serious thought to routinely sandboxing Firefox on my XP system.... I figure that will offer me additional protection.   So that's why I'm very interested in the new Sandboxie conflict.

I'm taking for granted that FF27 (and future updates) will keep its browsing more secure than IE 8 (which is the last version of IE that is XP-compatible)... I think this much of a choice is a "no-brainer".

But there is certainly give-and-take:   MBAE (Anti-EXPLOIT) currently does not inject itself into Sandboxie.   And SpywareBlaster's protection in FF is limited to cookies (i.e., the Restricted Sites and ActiveX blocking only work with IE, not FF).

As noted here (and in the Sandboxie thread), I've tried several different variations/tests to see if I could somehow get FF to run Sandboxed (and in the process, ruled-out certain aspects, such as Flash, Avast, & EMET, as being the culprit).   Grasping at straws, I finally stumbled on the Win2000 Compatibility Mode idea.

Stress that I consider this to be a TEMPORARY WORK-AROUND, as opposed to a full-fledged "fix".   Given the age/limitations of Win2000, the question is obviously raised as to which of the following offers better security:

a) running FF27 in Sandboxie via Win2000 Compatibility Mode --- which, in addition to the Compatibility Mode consideration, also must factor-in the lack of MBAE; or

b) running the older FF26 in Sandboxie (in normal mode) --- losing any security enhancements introduced in FF27 (as well as no MBAE); or

c) running FF 27 without Sandboxing --- having all the security benefits of FF27, as well as of MBAE.

I simply don't know which of these is preferable/optimal.

By the way, have you tested the compatibility mode setup to see if it works for you?

EDIT:   I see there's now one independent confirmation in the Sandboxie thread that this works (again, with XP3).

I've just taken note of bobbym's suggestion (in the sandboxie forum thread) that checking "Disable Visual Themes" under Compatibility also does the trick [even without specifying Win2000 Compatibility Mode].   In fact, I would speculate that this might be a safer approach than forcing compatibility mode... but we need some experts in the field to confirm this.

EDIT:   Indeed, in Win2000 Compatibility Mode, when I go to FF's download page, it tells me "Your system doesn't meet the requirements to run Firefox".... even though FF is running!!!  Using the Visual Themes "patch" instead, there is no such message.

Yes your work around works ( CompMode W 2000 ). Also bobbym's ( Visual Themes ). However, all your concerns mentioned above are also mine, but Without MBAE that I do not implement. What to do ?. Stay with FF26 & SB or run only FF 27 and use IE 8 and SB. Naaaw. For sure they will come out with a fix soon either SB or FF. BTW I am writing this in Sandboxie with Visual Themes disable. The fallowing images are with your workoround David.

I understand the importance of browsing sandboxed for those who have to (or choose to) run XP3 come April. But IE8 and Opera 19 can still run in SBIE 4 without problems. And until this conflict is resolved, those might prove to be the safer browsers to use in the interim. As far as I can tell, there are no plans for MS to drop support for IE8 come April. It was, I believe, the initial browser that came with Win 7, and has served me well (as far as security goes) for XP3.

I suspect also that FF will resolve this conflict before long.

"As far as I can tell, there are no plans for MS to drop support for IE8 come April".  

Keep in mind that the updates to IE typically come in the form of a Cumulative Update, which is, to the best of my understanding, offered as a distinct download for each operating system.   As such, while Microsoft may continue to provide Cumulative Updates for IE8 under Win7, I would be rather surprised if they continue offering such updates for WinXP.

Having thought about the FF/Sandboxie matter all weekend, I believe Bobbym's alternate work-around, to "Disable Visual Themes", is perhaps the best way to go until we get an actual fix.   I'm taking for granted that a "mere" disabling of a "visual theme" has no negative impact on the browser's security [which COULD be negatively impacted by forcing it to run in an ancient "compatibility mode"].    Via the "disabled visual theme" work-around, one can still achieve all the modern security improvements introduced in FF27, AND the full protection offered by Sandboxie 4.08. 

[As for losing MBAE protection under Sandboxie, that would apply equally whether sandboxing FF, IE, Opera, Chrome, or Safari... and so is not a factor in determining which of the browsers one wishes to sandbox.]

"As far as I can tell, there are no plans for MS to drop support for IE8 come April".   Keep in mind that the updates to IE typically come in the form of a Cumulative Update, which is, to the best of my understanding, offered as a distinct download for each operating system.   As such, while Microsoft may continue to provide Cumulative Updates for IE8 under Win7, I would be rather surprised if they continue offering such updates for WinXP.

You might well be right, ky. In any event, I do not plan for my XP to be browsing the net come April (sandboxed or not, with any browser). I'll let others test the waters first! :emotion-1: