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WD22TB4 docking station: A story of the gross incompetence of Dell support and engineers
XPS 15 9520
I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but maybe I'll try reddit if this doesn't help. I want a real competent engineer to look into this issue and I want Dell robotic support to stop presenting me with false information about their product as I'll be showing.
There's a story about a bug in WD22TB4 docking station that was already posted in Dell forums over a month ago here.
The problem is that in some cases, the docking station fails to allocate bandwidth correctly. One has to connect screens in a specific orders to get 2x 4k@60 to work. Disconnecting the docking station from the Thunderbolt port and reconnecting it basically causes the issue to happen (rendering the docking station useless), which is a throttling of resolution/refresh rate. To describe the issue, here's how to reproduce it when trying to connect two screens to the docking station with 4K@60 Hz:
1. Connect the two screens to the docking station respecting the rules of the display matrix in the manual, meaning, one through TB4 port at the back of the docking station, and the other one through DisplayPort or HDMI
2. Connect the docking station to the laptop (in my case, Dell XPS 9520, with 3050 Ti and 12900HK processor, which I bought less than a month ago).
The issue/symptoms: Depending on the screen, you'll either see the refresh rate of the Thunderbolt 4-connected screen to be 30 Hz (which is the case for my Samsung screen U32R59x), or a botched resolution that's not only less than 4k (my other screen, Asus XG438) with aspect ratios 32:9 or 16:18 (yes, you're reading this right, it becomes half 4k and half 1080p).
Notes on WHERE THIS WORKS AND THE PROBLEM DOES NOT HAPPEN:
- It works fine on my 4-year old XPS 15 9570 laptop with Thunderbolt 3
- It works on the same new laptop with the issue depending on the order of connections
Meaning: Trying to make the bandwidth argument (which will come up later) is plain incompetence.
The incompetence of Dell in handling the issue:
Dell support did the whole drill... driver updates, firmware updates, blablabla... fine. That's all OK. We updated all drivers and firmware, and the issue still persisted. And I wanna note that the issue also happens in different operating systems (Windows 10 + Windows 11 + Ubuntu 22.04).
But then, they started wasting hours of my time arguing about bandwidth and that the docking station is working as intended. The assumption here is that the docking station and laptop firmware is impeccable, and that's the annoying part. NOT ONLY that the user guide clearly states that two screens with 4k@60 Hz should work, but ALSO it really works if I reorder the connections to my docking station! How does a person have to be to make a bandwidth argument when it clearly works if a certain order was used for connections?
It gets worse!
After hours of argument, they FINALLY agreed to escalate this to the engineering team. I felt happy that FINALLY someone COMPETENT can look at the case. But little did I know that the "engineering team" is as incompetent as the support guys. Nothing has changed. A few days later I got the "response from the engineering team", and I quote:
"Hi, we just received an update from the engineering team. They confirmed the system is working as designed. In your current setup, it is actually a 3-display configuration as the internal display is also a part of the setup. You will need to look at the 3-display configuration table in the ma..."
Yes, that's right. This is letter-for-letter quoted from them. Now explain to me guys, and I'm not trying to be derogatory here, but just explain facts. How does an engineer have to be to tell me that the internal display of the laptop shares thunderbolt bandwidth?
IT GETS WORSE!
The problem is that the laptop screen is always closed when I connect the docking station! So EVEN if we agree with the "engineers" unsubstantiated premise that the laptop screen shares thunderbolt bandwidth, it's actually closed and turned off! Leave alone that IT WORKS if you connect the screens in a specific order!
After that point, communicating with support became pointless. Support became a "sympathetic robot" that just pats me on the back with messages like "We are here to help please let us know if we can be of further assistance.", but refuse to escalate this properly to engineers.
Now someone reading this should tell me if they ever seen this level of incompetence in any company. I think I wasted my money, not only paying for a 3000+ USD laptop and 500 USD docking station, but also next-business-day support which so not next-business-day. It's all useless, because there's a bunch of "engineers" at Dell who don't want to do their job.
mgargan
14 Posts
0
July 19th, 2022 03:00
I can't help you... but I ordered the WD22TB4, and am saving this page for when I get a chance to set mine up. I'll reply with my findings once I do.
Good luck, and please post any updates!
TheQuantumPhysicist
9 Posts
1
July 20th, 2022 01:00
Today a Dell technician came to my home and tried another motherboard on my laptop, and the issue still persisted, proving that this is a firmware issue, either in the laptop or the docking station.
DELL-Chris M
Community Manager
Community Manager
•
54.2K Posts
0
July 26th, 2022 06:00
Below is what I received from the dock team today concerning the WD22TB4 and the XPS 15 9520 =
The XPS 15 9520 with Thunderbolt should be HBR3. Based on the WD22TB4 User's Guide, the two 4K monitors should be using two of the WD22TB4 video out ports, but not the #7 Thunderbolt 4 ports.
DP 1.4 + DP 1.4 = both monitors 4K 3840x2160 60Hz
DP 1.4 + #2 HDMI 2.0 = both monitors 4K 3840x2160 60Hz
DP 1.4 + #3 USB-C/DP = both monitors 4K 3840x2160 60Hz
TheQuantumPhysicist
9 Posts
2
July 26th, 2022 08:00
Thank you for trying to help, Chris. I really appreciate it. But you're just presenting more incompetence from Dell's "engineers". I'm sorry for being harsh, but they are wrong.
First, on WD22TB4, DP + DP or DP + HDMI works. But this isn't the issue at hand. We're talking about TB4/USB-C + DP/HDMI dual monitor 4k@60Hz setup. So let's stick to that.
If you visit the Dell guide to Dual Monitor setup (for WD19TB/S and WD22TB4): https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000124312/dell-thunderbolt-dock-wd19tb-and-apple-usb-c-hosts#Dual_Monitor
You'll find this literally written there, quoting: "For an extended dual monitor setup (up to 4K@60Hz), one monitor must be first connected via the DisplayPort port (DP/HDMI/USB-C port) and the other monitor must be connected via the Thunderbolt port on the dock."
and the following image shown with the following caption:
Figure 2. Dual Monitor Setup-2 with WD19TB/WD19TBS/WD22TB4 dock connected to an Apple USB-C Host
where the thunderbolt port on the left is the #7 port on your depiction. So, your own manual says you're wrong.
Now, to further prove that what they said was wrong (in case you say that this is strictly for WD19TB/S), I wanna mention (AGAIN) that TB4 + DP connection works on the docking station currently. It works. IT WORKS... BUT, there's a problem with it. When the docking station is disconnected, then reconnected, the resolutions/refresh rates get messed up like I explained in the original post. To fix that, I have to manually disconnect both screens from the docking station, connect the TB4 connection, and then connect the DP/HDMI connection... and ONLY THEN, it works fine until something happens, like another restart or disconnect. This is impractical, and it points towards a firmware issue, either in the laptop or in the docking station. I don't know.
I'm really tired of explaining to Dell staff how their own products work. This is exhausting and I'm becoming more and more impatient. This has to stop! I have no idea what's going on there, but this is becoming ridiculous! At least get me someone competent (a real engineer, one the guys who designed this docking station) to talk to me about this issue so that we can get somewhere, please. Please!
I really appreciate your attempt to help, but unfortunately, it's making things worse.
TheQuantumPhysicist
9 Posts
1
August 6th, 2022 01:00
A few days ago I got a reply from Dell support:
"Hi, we have received an update from the engineering team and they found the issue to be with the Intel graphics driver. They are working towards a solution, but there is no ETA on the solution available yet. We will let you know once there is further progress."
I'm happy that they acknowledged that there's an issue, but I have to say, that I give a chance of 50% that they're wrong about the assessment. This is because the issue happens on both Windows and Linux. It's unlikely that the same bug is on both Windows and Linux at the software level, especially that Linux doesn't use the Intel graphics driver as far as I know. Besides, how could the Intel driver be responsible for allocating correct bandwidth for display for the Thunderbolt 4 docking station? This doesn't make sense.
It's what it's. I'm still waiting for a solution from their end.
DELL-Chris M
Community Manager
Community Manager
•
54.2K Posts
1
August 22nd, 2022 11:00
That article you reference is ONLY applicable to Apple USB-C Hosts. It has no bearing on your XPS 15 9520 =
Dell Thunderbolt Dock (WD19TB/WD19TBS,WD22TB4) and Apple USB-C Hosts
Summary: A guide for providing guidance on using an Apple USB-C host (example: MacBook Pro) with the Dell Thunderbolt Dock WD19TB and WD22TB4
The picture you posted states = Apple USB-C Host System
The team has reiterated =
The XPS 15 9520 with Thunderbolt should be HBR3. Based on the WD22TB4 User's Guide, the two 4K monitors should be using two of the WD22TB4 video out ports, but not the #7 Thunderbolt 4 ports.
DP 1.4 + DP 1.4 = both monitors 4K 3840x2160 60Hz
DP 1.4 + #2 HDMI 2.0 = both monitors 4K 3840x2160 60Hz
DP 1.4 + #3 USB-C/DP = both monitors 4K 3840x2160 60Hz
Dell had to make a design decision within these constraints using Intel NVM. Our OEM version of the NVM forces Thunderbolt device to prioritize the MST hub connection during connection training. So when a user re-docks, by design we favor providing max bandwidth to the MST hub with its three possible video outputs over the Thunderbolt connection.
If MST hub has something attached =
* Allocate maximum DP bandwidth allowed to MST hub. In this case, 4 lanes HBR3
* Allocate remaining bandwidth to other ports. In this case, 1 lane HBR3 which can only support 4K 30Hz
If MST hub has nothing attached =
* Devices attached to Thunderbolt downstream ports get the DP bandwidth
TheQuantumPhysicist
9 Posts
1
August 25th, 2022 23:00
Dear Chris. Thank you for providing this information. Let me just add that the behavior of the dock is chaotic. Some times it works on redock with 4k@60Hz, and some times not. So... I don't know what any of this means anymore. But thanks for the clarification. I'm more satisfied with the last answer than ever before.
On the other hand, support promised a "fix" on September for the Intel driver. If what you're claiming is correct, then I don't know what that will fix. Maybe the chaotic behavior? I don't know. Thanks again.
gmz-dell
13 Posts
1
September 24th, 2022 20:00
Not sure if this will help (or even apply) to your situation, but theres a new driver released this week that addresses a similar-sounding problem with multi-external displays and the iCPU intel UHD. Might be worth a look.
If nothing else, you might mention this TB19 driver update to the technician who was helping you with the 22TB.
(since the TB19 and the wd22 are essentially the same hardware, sans the TB4 connector)
"" - Fixed the issue where the refresh rate on one of the two 4K external monitor reduces from 60Hz to 30Hz. This issue occurs when the monitor is connected to the Dell WD19 docking station with DP or HDMI port. ""
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=6y30k&oscode=w2021
hope this helps!
Psunexus
2 Posts
1
January 5th, 2023 17:00
I have the same xps15 9520 and I have experienced the exact same issues with the wd19TBs dock. From my troubleshooting I have found that the issue is not in the dock itself but the Intel video drivers. Any time the drivers are set to use the oem March 2022 drivers I have major issues, however if I update to the December 2022 driver via the Intel website the dual 4k displays work properly at 60hz. It took me a while to figure this out because periodically the drivers would revert back to the March 2022 drivers after the pc would come back from sleep but I managed to solve it by deleting the March drivers from within the windows drivers directory. I'm interested in upgrading to the wd22 so please try out my suggestion and let me know if it also resolves your issue.
TheQuantumPhysicist
9 Posts
0
January 8th, 2023 23:00
I wouldn't recommend you buying WD22TB4. Your WD19TBS is good enough. If it works, don't fix it.
I wanna point out that there were no issues with my WD19TB. This issue happened only with WD22TB4 on my new laptop.
The support on this thing seems minimal. Currently I'm using a mac, and guess what? I can't really let the laptop go to sleep while connected to the docking station... because otherwise it may or may not crash and restart the computer. So every night I have to disconnect it and put it on a separate charger.
Another issue is that many times my screens reset in the OS and I lose the 120 Hz status, and the monitors just get rearranged. So I'll have to re-do it and put them in the correctly visual order (left, right, etc).
To your request, I did the test. I ran both Windows Updates and Dell updates and that fixed nothing. I still have the same issue.
Just remember that this issue happens some times and some times it doesn't. You can try plugging in and out many times and it may happen again.
TwistedAndy
45 Posts
0
January 11th, 2023 13:00
All these issues are related to the laptop, not the docking stations. To be more precise, Dell uses discrete Thunderbolt controllers, which require separate firmware to function properly. This firmware is a part of BIOS. It is very buggy.
In my case, all the embedded devices and USB ports in the WD19TB dock may not work when I connect the dock to my laptop. It happens occasionally. Restarting the laptop solves the problem. I have had this issue from the beginning and it is still there.
TRPB86
2 Posts
0
February 8th, 2023 15:00
So this issue absolutely still exists. And I can replicate it in an even easier way.
1. Boot with 1 4k144hz monitor plugged directly via USB-C -> DP adapter.
My monitor is identified as "Samsung Electric Company LS28AG700N H4ZRC02586" with a maximum mode of 3840x2160 px, 143.856995 Hz. Works as intended.
2. Instead, connect the monitor to the dock via a Displayport cable and connect the dock to the laptop.
The monitor is detected as Samsung Electric Company LC49G95T H1AK500000 with a maximum mode of 2560x1440 px, 59.951000 Hz.
However, with enough connecting/reconnecting (if it doesn't cause the system to crash/freeze or some other weird behaviour) it eventually detects it as the correct display through the dock.
So there we are. Flaky behaviour with just ONE display. Things get worse if I start connecting others. The stupidly annoying thing is that with enough unplugging, replugging and changing modes in the OS it does eventually work (albeit I can only get 4k120hz + 4k60hz through the dock). This is advertised as being able to run 4 4k60hz monitors! It can barely handle 1.
This is an XPS 15 9150 with the current firmware and the dock's firmware updated to the latest available.
TRPB86
2 Posts
0
February 9th, 2023 08:00
As this comes up fairly high on search results for this issue I have a partial solution:
DO NOT USE THE DISPLAYPORT (and possibly HDMI) OUTPUTS .
I am currently running three monitors in this configuration using the port numbers from the image earlier in the thread:
Port 7(a) thunderbolt port on the dock: 4k 120hz via USB-C -> DP cable
Port 7(b) thunderbolt port on the dock: 4k 60hz via USB-C -> HDMI adapter -> HDMI cable to screen
USB-C port on laptop (not a thunderbolt port): 4k 120hz
I can't run any display at 144hz but I don't really care about that as 120/144 isn't bad for a laptop.
If I move one of the USB-C cables to port 3 (which has a displayport logo on it), it detects the screen as a 49" 1440p display and everything is broken.
I also tried the HDMI output on the dock (port 2). It works but my picture drops out intermittently until eventually turning off until the dock is rebooted. The same cable works fine via a USB C -> HDMI adapter I happened to have lying around so again, an issue with the dock.
Basically there is an issue with the EDID lookup via displayport and it sets the resolution incorrectly when the dock first starts up. If you unplug and replug the display it re-parses the EDID information and you (usually) see the monitor recognized correctly.
The solution? Don't use any of the displayport outputs (including the USB-C port with DisplayPort 1.4) and connect all your screens via USB-C -> DisplayPort cables in the thunderbolt ports.
edit: I don't actually know if the 60hz limit on the second display is due to the HDMI cable/adapter. I've ordered another USB-C to displayport cable to see if I can get all 3 displays working at 120hz
fl33tfarm
9 Posts
0
June 15th, 2023 14:00
inmarket
1 Message
0
February 14th, 2024 00:29
Have the same problem with TB19. Easiest work around is to unplug the USB-C display before attaching to the laptop. The HDMI/DisplayPort then boots correctly at 4K 60Hz, and then the USB-C display can be attached and it will run at 4K 60Hz also. I haven't investigated how early I can plug the USB-C display back in and have it work although I suspect it is very early in the boot cycle.
This dock never used to have the problem. It used to work fine. Then some update (I don't know if it was dock firmware or intel graphics driver) caused this problem and it still hasn't been fixed. I also have an older Dell 95XX laptop that, from the same update, now refuses to recognise the 2nd display in any configuration.