Dell XPS 8700 - Boot time when using a SSD drive

Hi Elliot,

I know Samsung provides a utility with their 840 EVO drive to optimize the system for an SSD. Does Sandisk have something like that?

I can tell you that desktop boot times are always going to be a bit slower than, say, a new laptop with instant-on features. So your times seem a bit slow but not terrible. I have a Studio XPS 8100 with the Samsung SSD and just put the same drive in my daughter's Thinkpad (similar specs to my desktop), and her laptop boots significantly faster. Both were clean installations of the OS.

I just got 2 weeks ago the 8700, standard one, no upgrades. Same CPU but only 8GB's of RAM.

It came with the A06 BIOS and I never changed it. I added a SanDisk Extreme 120GB SSD. I shrunk the 1TB drive down and then used Paragon's Migrate OS to SSD V4 to copy the C: drive over. Then used the original 1TB drive for data and added another one for backups of both drives using a Symantec product.

I have not seen the long times you do? I have NOT measured it, but the Dell log with the bar under it fills very fast (sometimes, like a reboot I never see it) then the spinning dots for a short time, a brief black screen, the Windows one with my picture and almost immediately the desktop.

We've got an 8500 with an SSD and a mix of SATA II and SATA III drives (SSD is on SATA III), and this 8700 boots maybe 10 seconds faster than that does. Can not make a true comparison as there are differences in auto-started apps.

This 8700 was 'cloned' from a failing Studio 1 435T, also with an SSD. Boot times are fairly close to the 8700 but not significantly slower.

I am hard wired to my router and the wireless card (Dell's) is disabled. However I did run it with it on when I was cloning it, and I do not recall seeing and difference.

I guess we could both run BOOTRACER but I am reluctant as McAfee does NOT like the site for d/l? Another you can try is Boot-Timer (http://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-boot-timer) I guess?

Also in the Event Viewer, under Microsoft-Windows-Diagnostics-Performance/Operational/Diagnostics-Performance and look for the ID 100. Mine says 25 seconds usually. However I do not know the start and stop point for counting. Some more on the Event Viewer, http://www.windows7library.com/blog/boot/troubleshooting-lengthy-startups/#more-543, and other events surrounding it.

Hope this helps.

Just ran Boot-Timer, the above is what I got on a re-boot. Again, do not know when the counting starts or stops. Also dependent on the number of start-up programs and services one starts. I only have 22 startup programs running.

I prefer to use the good old fashioned stopwatch.

In any case, I find that sometimes it takes a minute to boot from cold, other times 32 seconds or so, with no real rhyme or reason. The difference always seems to be duration the Windows 8 blue log-in screen is on for (this is the screen with my login name and picture with the caterpillar swirling immediately before the desktop appears). Sometimes this screen stays on for a couple of seconds, other times 30+ seconds.

Thoughts? 

Thanks.

Another program that tells the boot time is Glary Utilities:

In all these programs it is hard to tell where the measurements start and stop. I'm running basically 14 or 15 seconds according to Glary.

The difference always seems to be duration the Windows 8 blue log-in screen is on for (this is the screen with my login name and picture with the caterpillar swirling immediately before the desktop appears). Sometimes this screen stays on for a couple of seconds, other times 30+ seconds.

Now that is very interesting.

My old Dell XPS Studio One 435T that is SATA II with a SATA II SSD varied greatly. The screen you are talking about was always FAST, but the one before it had two modes (the black one with the 'flag' and the 'twirling dots' below it). The flag appeared immediately, but sometimes the dots didn't for awhile, other times instantly. The 'delay' I always assumed was when the SSD was doing Garbage Collection? It also transitioned to the screen you mention instantly.

Now on the 8700 that first black screen always shows fast (but it has a Dell logo) as do the dots. I then see briefly a complete black screen and then the one you mention for a few seconds. Then the desktop appears, sometimes more icons are populated than others. The first screen always seems to take about the same time as does the second. The complete black screen is not seen on the 435T?

It is possible the make and model of the SSD plays into this? I really doubt it though. The reason is the SATA  II SSD that is now in the 435T is a Corsair Force CSSD-F115GB2-BRKT-A dive and the one in this 8700 is a SanDisk SDSSDX-120G-G25 SATA III drive. The Corsair had died on me and I bought the SanDisk to replace it. The funny part is that the first screen also had worked the same on the SanDisk, random delays. I put the Corsair back after a few months and the random times continued? It was NOT the SSD, so I assume the BIOS is at fault?

I have on the 8700 the A06 BIOS. I've seen reports here of people upgrading from A03 that have SSD's and the boot performance had doubled? My system shipped with it.

I have Media Card drivers installing on every boot. Spent over an hour and a 1/2 on the phone with Dell and them connected to my computer. USB, Media Slot, and Chipset drivers were replaced, Newer versions were available. Did NOT fix my problem, but it didn't seem to do anything good or bad as far as disk access goes?

Sorry I can't help, about all I can tell you is I appear to boot within 30 seconds even by a stop watch, all the time.

Thanks.

Glary Utilities is a useful piece of kit.

I tried it a few times and the boot time has varied between 30 seconds and 1 min 20 seconds. Last time I ran it it was 48 seconds saying 59% of users are slower. It just doesn't seem right that my computer is so slow to boot given I have an SSD.

Interestingly, it seems like my computer is now slowest at the bit with the Dell logo with the caterpillar (I guess there are 5 stages - 1 - computer on, monitor waiting, 2 - dell logo, 3 - dell logo with caterpillar, 4 - windows login page, 5 - windows desktop).

Any suggestions as to what on earth is (1) causing my boot time to oscillate and (2) the cause of the slower boot? Dell suggested changing the motherboard, which I may do...

Thanks, that's really helpful.

On the make of my SSD, it is a  Sandisk Extreme 240gb SSD - model SDSSDX240GG25 (I think this is identical to yours other than mine is 240gb vs yours being 120gb). I also have the latest R211 firmware. SATA transfer rate is 6GB/s, so it seems, according to Intel Rapid Storage Technology, everything is configured to perform at the optimum level.

I checked the disk alignment and it said everything is fine. 

So I guess the things still to try from your post are:

• Change the SATA port, see if there is a difference, could have a bad port.
• Swap the drive cable with the original drive, could have a bad cable.

I will do this now and report back.

Thanks again. 

Interestingly, it seems like my computer is now slowest at the bit with the Dell logo with the caterpillar (I guess there are 5 stages - 1 - computer on, monitor waiting, 2 - dell logo, 3 - dell logo with caterpillar, 4 - windows login page, 5 - windows desktop).

Yes, I guess I had the same on the 435T. It didn't have the Dell logo and used the Windows flag instaead. That machine ALWAYS showed me the Dell Logo first with the bar on the bottom filling, then either just the Windows 4 part flag on a black screen the the time the 'caterpillar' as you call it, appears varying as was the time it was on the screen. On the 8700 it seems I never see the Dell Log with the bar filling under it. It goes right to the black screen with the caterpillar.

You never said what make and model of the SSD you have, but there are things you can check:

• Disk Alignment is important on the SSD, didn't mention how you cloned the SSD either? I used a Paragon Migration program that worked like a charm. You can check the alignment with this program, http://diskat.net/ and this is what it shows for me (disk 1 is the SSD): 
• Open up Intel's Rapid Storage Technology, make sure the SSD is running on SATA III
• Change the SATA port, see if there is a difference, could have a bad port.
• Swap the drive cable with the original drive, could have a bad cable.
• Check the SSD's site to see if there is a Firmware Update for the SSD (or if they have a toolbox that might show you the same info)

Replacing the motherboard will not help unless you do have a bad port. Otherwise there could be backlevel chipset drivers on your install, but Dell should have been able to check that?

So I guess the things still to try from your post are: Change the SATA port, see if there is a difference, could have a bad port. Swap the drive cable with the original drive, could have a bad cable. I will do this now and report back.

Chances are the Port is OK.

Was the SSD used before you cloned over the OS? How did you clone the OS over?

You can try and delete the PREFETCH folder. I could have some old info in it that could effect booting. Check out this link, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-performance-tweak,2911-5.html, however, I do NOT have these changes (registry set to 3 for both). Additionally, this link, http://www.thewindowsclub.com/disable-superfetch-prefetch-ssd, also talks about the Superfetch Sevice, which I still have running. Some interesting info here, https://communities.intel.com/thread/28771, but old.

I guess you can play with these settings and see if it helps?

I didn't clone the OS. I actually ordered a Win 8 DVD from Dell and used that to install Windows to the SSD as a clean installation.

I'm absolutely perplexed. Wonder whether it's worth doing a totally clean installation. Then again, is it worth the hassle just to save an extra 30 ish seconds on a cold boot...

I didn't clone the OS. I actually ordered a Win 8 DVD from Dell and used that to install Windows to the SSD as a clean installation. I'm absolutely perplexed. Wonder whether it's worth doing a totally clean installation. Then again, is it worth the hassle just to save an extra 30 ish seconds on a cold boot...

You still have the original C:? Rather than the fresh install, might be better to clone. Depending on the age of the DVD you got, it might have backlevel drivers for the Chipset?

For cloning I used this program, http://www.paragon-software.com/technologies/components/migrate-OS-to-SSD/index.html, only $20 and saves a LOT of work and headaches cloning to an SSD.

I'd try and figure out what could be wrong. It might not only be during boot that the SSD is having a problem performing well.

Run the benchmarks, let us see if the SSD performance is the same?

If they are NOT, I'd consider a SECURE ERASE on the SSD and re-install and run benchmarks again. Maybe even re-flash the firmware too.

Since we basically have the same SSD's, it might be worth checking the performance? I got two programs,

AS Benchmark (http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/AS-SSD-Benchmark-Download-216352.html)

Crystal DiskMark 3 (http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html#CrystalDiskMark)

Results:

Note I changed the default parameters on the DiskMark s/w.

This is the spec's for the SSD:

Performance

Max Sequential Read

Up to 550 MB/s

Max Sequential Write

Up to 510 MB/s

4KB Random Read

Up to 23,000 IOPS

4KB Random Write

Up to 83,000 IOPS

------------------

Of course the benchmarks don't test exactly either?

You drive should get similar results if working OK.

Another benchmark, ATTO (http://www.attotech.com/disk-benchmark/) shows the results differently:

If you run these you should basically match mine?

Thanks.

I moved the original C: to the D: and formatted it when I did that. Having said that, I think I have a partition on the original C: which is labelled "Recovery"; is that where the original Dell software will be? So think cloning won't be possible now...

On the disk performance, it looks like my SSD is performing well - better than yours in fact - see below (it's in German although not sure why).

So do you think the best thing to do at this stage is a SECURE ERASE and they do a clean install on the SSD? Would have to be from the DVD, unless the recovery partitions can be used. Bit of a pain. Or what about a Windows 8 repair/refresh? How much of a pain is it to do this?

See below for my current drives - Disk 0 is the SSD, Disk 1 is the hard disk that came with the dell, Disk 2 and Disk 3 are external hard drives. Also, why are both Disk 0 and Disk 1 partitions split as they are (Disk 1 has 5 partitions??) whereas Disk 2 and Disk 3 seem to have 1 partition each? Does this give any clues?

Another thing - I note that the hard disk light - which I think goes on when the SSD is being read/written to - is not on for at least 15 seconds on boot up, then it comes on....

I moved the original C: to the D: and formatted it when I did that. Having said that, I think I have a partition on the original C: which is labelled "Recovery"; is that where the original Dell software will be? So think cloning won't be possible now... On the disk performance, it looks like my SSD is performing well - better than yours in fact - see below (it's in German although not sure why).

I do NOT have a recovery partition per se?

Hmm, it is better? The 240GB does have some higher spec's though. I just got the 8700 so they might be using a new disk image. Mine appears to be created on 3/13/14, the oldest folder I could find and also that date is in some log files.

I had a severe boot problem and Dell had to send me a DVD of W8.1 to be able to correct it.

Yes, you do have better numbers, but the 240GB also has slightly better performance numbers.

I too got it in German the first time I tried. I ran the program from the ZIP file, but once I UNZIPPED it it was in English.

If you CAN boot to the Recovery partition (F12) you might be able to recreate the original C:, not sure but worth a try?

So do you think the best thing to do at this stage is a SECURE ERASE and they do a clean install on the SSD? Would have to be from the DVD, unless the recovery partitions can be used. Bit of a pain. Or what about a Windows 8 repair/refresh? How much of a pain is it to do this?

Well, to be honest, at this point I'm not too sure? It appears the SSD is working correctly, and that does sort of point to the OS itself as the cause.

Windows 8 Refresh is good, but you'll lose ANYTHING that is installed that isn't MS. Since you are willing to do a clean install, it should be just as good.

I see you have TWO External drives. I do NOT, all mine are Internal. I wonder if this can/will slow down booting? The drives have to be accessed during boot to have a drive letter assigned. I have both USB 2.0 and 3.0 External Drives I can attach. The 3.0 seems to take longer to be recognized? These are usually attached when the system is running. I never usually leave them connected. Have you tried booting without them (unless you've put files needed during boot on them)?

See below for my current drives - Disk 0 is the SSD, Disk 1 is the hard disk that came with the dell, Disk 2 and Disk 3 are external hard drives. Also, why are both Disk 0 and Disk 1 partitions split as they are (Disk 1 has 5 partitions??) whereas Disk 2 and Disk 3 seem to have 1 partition each? Does this give any clues?

See my Disk Management capture above as well.

Simply answered, but you have two different 'types' of drives. Drive 0 and 1 are both SYSTEM drives that Windows is/was installed on them. That  'small' partition on both is required by MS for booting... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_System_partition) can not tell if your's is the same as mine? I am using uEFI and Secure Boot, it appears you might have switched to Legacy Boot? I get that feeling as your 2nd partition on disk 0 says 'recovery'?

Disk 1 is a GPT disk which can have more than 4 partitions on it, Dell ships that as default now. See my Disk 0 which is the original 1TB drive. E: is the original Dell Win 8.1, and via F12 I can still boot to it. When I got the computer the first thing I did was shrink the C: to 110GB's and then created the K: partition from the freespace created by the shrinking. Since I cloned the E: over to the SSD (Disk 1) the cloning process also copied over the 500MB EFI partition. Normal the size of that partition is a function of the disk size, that is why your's is smaller, you did a clean new install.

The other disks don't have that partition (like my Disk 2) as you formatted them using the OS. When formatting using Disk Manager you could have made them smaller and had more than one per disk if you wished. Total of 4 Primary though. Although you could have created a Logical Partition and had in it as many as you wished.

So, what I'd suggest is first detach the External drives (even if there are desktop references to them UNLESS you installed device drivers on them) and see if that changes to booting? It might be only one drive that does effect it, so you can try both out, and add only one back and try again.

Since you don't mind losing everything (or had made a back-up you can restore) try the Windows Refresh and test booting.

Lastly, the SECURE ERASE and fresh install from DVD...

It is a lot of work, but if there is something slowing down the SSD, it could also happen when the system is up and running.

I sort of think this is related to the external drives. I also suspect the time variations are problem due to the boot method, cold power off boot vs. a reboot (which I'd expect to be faster).

Post back results.