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Nniixx

59 Posts

49402

February 6th, 2007 12:00

E521 Bios update is faulty

I ran the BIOS flash on my Dimension E521 to upgrade to V1.1.4 last week

It has all been working well....I thought.

Tonight I tried to boot from a USB stick that was plugged into a USB port on my Dell 1907FP monitor, which I have done in the past, but it didn't work - just loaded windows.

I restarted and this time tried pressing F2 at the appropriate moment to get into Setup.

F2 didn't work, the keboard was not receiving power until Windows was in the final stages of loading.

Since the the only other USB device plugged in was the monitor, ie for the ports on it, I disconnected it and rebooted again.

This time I was able to use F2 to get in to BIOS.

I tried the monitor usb connection cable on each of the other 3 rear USB ports and the two front ones and it had the same effect, basically disabled the keyboard from booting into BIOS.

Also whilst the USB stick was plugged into the monitor it wouldn't work either whearas plugging it into a port on it's own it booted from it, so this would imply that the monitor USB hub is also not recieving power either until in Windows when everthing works fine.

Since the information for the 1.1.4 bios upgrade specifically mentions:-

"1. Fixed issue where the USB keyboard would not work in the front ports when a USB 2.0 hub was connected in rear USB port 2."

I'd say that there's still a problem around this whole area.

arbeitstier

15 Posts

February 21st, 2007 15:00

next part of the story: I've "downgraded" to 1.0.3 as done by that Dell technician. Result was that the machine couldn't find the boot device any more. So I wiped out the CMOS ram in the hope that the default settings might work. However, now the computer enters always the BIOS setup and waits for a keystroke to continue which will never come because the power of the keyboard is still off. No matter when/where I plug it in. So, basically I've got the BIOS setup on my new 19" monitor forever because the keyboard doesn't get power... /Bernd

Majestic

9.4K Posts

February 21st, 2007 18:00

Bernd, I'm assuming that you gave Dell a call.  If you didn't, now would be a good time.

arbeitstier

15 Posts

February 26th, 2007 08:00

Sent also this because I've realised that my last e-mail could be misunderstood: -------------------------------- Just to add that with a "new" motherboard the same problem will be back, namely that the keyboard won't work. So, in other words I would have the same problem as before. I don't want to have a new motherboard but have it fixed so that F2 is recognised during boot time. Regards /Bernd Porr --------------------------------

arbeitstier

15 Posts

February 26th, 2007 08:00

Majestic wrote: Bernd, I'm assuming that you gave Dell a call. If you didn't, now would be a good time. That's what they wrote and my reply (let's see what's happening). Seems so that I have to by a nice miniATX motherboard instead and replace it with that one from Dell... We'll see what's happening. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem has been the same with the new and the old BIOS. As you know there hasn't been a new BIOS available so the only option was to downgrade it (and it is in the list of recommended BIOSes anyway). However, that the system hangs is NOT due to the BIOS version but due to the fact that the keyboard is not recognised. I have caused this by wiping out the CMOS content which now forces the setup screen. Thus, I would like to have this fixed free of charge. Regards /Bernd Porr uki_customer_care wrote: > Dear Dell Customer > > Thank you for your reply. > > If the system is still going to the Bios then it is a problem with the system setup. > > Bios's are supposed to be updated not downgraded. > The Dell forum is not always recommended by Dell as anyone can post on it and the information is not always correct. > > As the problem is with the Bios it would require the motherboard to be replaced. > Because the problem was caused by 'downgrading' the bios it will not be covered under the warranty of the system. > > We can book an out of warranty repair for you for a replacment motherboard. > You would then be contacted within 48 hours with a quote for the repair. > > If you would like me to book this for you then please reply with your address details and contact phone numbers. > > Regards > xxxx xxxx > Dell E-Support > Dimension/Inspiron >

Message Edited by arbeitstier on 02-26-2007 07:55 AM

arbeitstier

15 Posts

February 26th, 2007 11:00

Thanks for that advice. I'll keep you posted. Regards /Bernd Porr

Majestic

9.4K Posts

February 26th, 2007 11:00

Bernd, a couple of things....... first, I would suggest editing your previous posting in order to remove the Dell Tech's name.  Posting the full name of a Dell employee is in violation of the rules and regulations and will more than likely cause your post to be deleted. 
 
Secondly, I never heard of Dell noting a difference between an upgrade and a downgrade when it comes to warranty coverage for a bad BIOS flash.  To my knowledge a BIOS flash is a BIOS flash whether to a newer or older version.  You can click here for a previous forum discussion on warranty coverage for a bad flash.    

arbeitstier

15 Posts

February 27th, 2007 09:00

This is what Dell "support" sent me this morning. Oviously, I won't buy a motherboard from them because there is no solution to the probelem. Their "new" motherboard would have the same fault and would be useless for me anyway. I've learned a lesson. /Bernd P.S.: Thanks for your help. P.P.S.: time to buy a mini ATX board and fit into the C521... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Bernd Any information on the Dell forum is not an official statment or policy of Dell. Dell never suggest to customers to downgrade their bios. If you had rang tech support then anything we advised you to do would be covered under warranty but as you did this on your own and Dell never advise doing this then the system is not covered under warranty. You can read the terms & conditions of the Dell forum below: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/policy/en/policy?c=us&l=en&s=gen&~section=007 Please read the below paragraph from the T&C Limitation of Liability UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, NEGLIGENCE, SHALL DELL BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF DATA OR PROFIT, ARISING OUT OF THE USE, OR THE INABILITY TO USE, THE MATERIALS ON THIS SITE, EVEN IF DELL OR A DELL AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. IF YOUR USE OF MATERIALS FROM THIS SITE RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION OF EQUIPMENT OR DATA, YOU ASSUME ANY COSTS THEREOF. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION OR EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. I believer this makes it very clear. We can book an out of warranty repair for the replacment motherboard or you can replace it yourself. If you would like me to book a repair, please reply to this email. Regards

Message Edited by arbeitstier on 02-28-2007 03:00 AM

Majestic

9.4K Posts

February 27th, 2007 10:00

Bernd, thanks for posting back with an update.  You've got me curious as to whether Dell has now changed their position on warranty coverage of BIOS flashes.  Considering some of the problems caused by the newer BIOS updates on some models,  it maybe in the best of interest of everyone to skip flashing the BIOS if Dell doesn't stand behind their releases.   I'll see if I can get a second opinion from Dell's Chris M. 

DELL-Chris M

Community Manager

 • 

54.3K Posts

February 27th, 2007 11:00

All,

I am making inquiries.

Nniixx

59 Posts

February 27th, 2007 20:00

DELL-ChrisM wrote: All, I am making inquiries.
Given it is the Dell Support application that notifies people that a new BIOS is available and suggests to "Get It", the wording of that response does seem a bit strange. I can understand that stance for flashing backwards, but for all those people flashing forward, if a Dell application suggests you do it and then it fails ?????

Message Edited by Nniixx on 02-27-2007 04:38 PM

arbeitstier

15 Posts

February 27th, 2007 21:00

Thanks for the backstabbing. ;-)
On my way back home I was asking myself why the official web page for the BIOSes actually provides older BIOS versions? This is not a "rouge" page as this community forum ;-) (see mail above) but from the official web page provided by Dell:
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/previousversions.aspx?c=br&l=pt&s=gen&vercnt=4&osl=en&SystemID=DIM_P4_C521&deviceid=308&libid=1&os=BIOSA&releasetype=BIOS&typecnt=1
As Majestetic put it: is any BIOS flashing a risk, especially when the support people just turn against you whatever you've done. Obviously, it's a very cost saving measure (for Dell): Dell produces a faulty computer, the user tries to fix it and fails. Then the support blames the user for his/her initiative. Bottomline is: just tell them "it doesn't work". Minimalistic approach. Don't give anything away.
Here's a cost saving method for the user. One of my friends usually solves these problems in this way: he takes a 9V battery and holds it against the pins of the BIOS chip and then calls support and tells them "It doesn't work. Just a blank screen!" Just joking, guys from Dell. I'm just getting a bit cynical.
Good night.
/Bernd

Message Edited by arbeitstier on 02-28-2007 02:59 AM

DELL-Chris M

Community Manager

 • 

54.3K Posts

February 28th, 2007 02:00

All,

If the customer is directed to flash the bios (up or down) by a Dell representative, and the flash fails, we will replace the motherboard.

If the customer elects to flash the bios (up or down) on their own, and they somehow corrupt the BIOS, that damage to the motherboard is NOT covered under normal warranty.
=====

Nniixx,

Flash down to bios 1.0.3 to attempt to restore the PC and your USB key usage.

The E521 System Setup must have these settings -
USB Controller = On
Rear Dual USB0 = On
Rear Dual USB1 = On
Front USB = On

All bootable USB devices must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports. The monitor USB uplink cable must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports.
=====

pvandenhouten,

The E521 System Setup must have these settings -
USB Controller = On
Rear Dual USB0 = On
Rear Dual USB1 = On
Front USB = On

All bootable USB devices must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports. The monitor USB uplink cable must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports.
=====

Tony Little,

Flash down to bios 1.1.2 to attempt to restore the PC.

The C521 System Setup must have these settings -
USB Controller = On
Rear Dual USB0 = On
Rear Dual USB1 = On
Front USB = On

All bootable USB devices must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports. The monitor USB uplink cable must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports.

Nniixx

59 Posts

February 28th, 2007 03:00


@Anonymous-ChrisM wrote:
All,

If the customer is directed to flash the bios (up or down) by a Dell representative, and the flash fails, we will replace the motherboard.

If the customer elects to flash the bios (up or down) on their own, and they somehow corrupt the BIOS, that damage to the motherboard is NOT covered under normal warranty.
=====

Nniixx,

Flash down to bios 1.0.3 to attempt to restore the PC and your USB key usage.

The E521 System Setup must have these settings -
USB Controller = On
Rear Dual USB0 = On
Rear Dual USB1 = On
Front USB = On

All bootable USB devices must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports. The monitor USB uplink cable must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports.
=====

pvandenhouten,

The E521 System Setup must have these settings -
USB Controller = On
Rear Dual USB0 = On
Rear Dual USB1 = On
Front USB = On

All bootable USB devices must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports. The monitor USB uplink cable must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports.
=====

Tony Little,

Flash down to bios 1.1.2 to attempt to restore the PC.

The C521 System Setup must have these settings -
USB Controller = On
Rear Dual USB0 = On
Rear Dual USB1 = On
Front USB = On

All bootable USB devices must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports. The monitor USB uplink cable must be plugged into the PC rear USB ports.


Well what happens if it's the Dell Support program that pops up a window saying that the BIOS is available - is that a user choice or Dell advisory ?

That's why I updated in the first place and then when I found my problem tried a second flash of the same number BIOS which failed.

After explaining all that when I ran Dell support they sent out a technician to replace my Mobo and that mobo had version 1.0.3 back on it so I've stuck with that and now ignore the BIOS update message from Dell Support program.

arbeitstier

15 Posts

February 28th, 2007 06:00

> If the customer elects to flash the bios (up or down) on their own, and they somehow > corrupt the BIOS, that damage to the motherboard is NOT covered under normal
> warranty.

Is that an ad-hoc deceision from Dell or has this been written down before?

Problem is: NOW I know that. But it hasn't been named in the terms and and conditions, neither in this community forum nor on the Dell web site. If it is please point me to that place. I did a google search on that issue and I haven't found anything on the Dell pages so far. Obviously, you cannot just change your rules to save money. Or at least it's a very interesting question.

Regards
/Bernd

Majestic

9.4K Posts

February 28th, 2007 10:00

Thanks for getting a clarification Chris.  I will definately have to change the way I advise folks on BIOS updates.
 
Since Dell is taking this position of not warranty covering unsupervised BIOS flashes, is there a way to stop folks from receiving that BIOS update notification?


Message Edited by Majestic on 02-28-2007 06:52 AM

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