Inspiron 580 "Freezes" Requiring Re-start

This sure sounds like a bad capacitor to me. Soon as the machine starts to warm up it gets silly. I would suspect the power supply. Since this computer is now a science project, I would inspect the motherboard first for obvious bad (bulged top) capacitors. Then I would disassemble the power supply and look for the same on the low voltage side. Capacitors are dirt cheap, easy to replace and keep your old rig out of the landfill for a few more years. Just Sayin'

Thanks for the response, and I will conduct a more thorough visual inspection. However, additional testing suggests to me that the power supply is probably not the culprit.

For the past 25 hours, I have been running Dell's built-in Pre-boot System Assessment diagnostics. This is one of the options available when you press F12 during boot-up, and I had forgotten about them until now. These pre-boot diagnostics run before the system boots into Windows and take many hours to complete. The system has now been running the diagnostics continuously for more than a day.

If the power supply was causing problems or failing after it warms up, I suspect the machine would have locked up or exhibited some other type of failure after more than a day of continuous diagnostic activity.

For what's worth, the machine has passed all of the extended diagnostic tests so far.

In summary, this machine always locks up (freezes) after less than an hour of running Windows, but it has apparently been running just fine during more than a day of pre-boot diagnostics.

I will appreciate any further suggestions!

Jeff

Does it crash when a specific app is running, eg watching a video, using MS Office..?
How much free space is available on the HDD? And have you defragged it recently?

Have you run chkdsk c:/r from Start>Run and rebooted when it asks if chkdsk should run on next boot?

Have you run a Windows System File Check (sfc) from Start>Run using this command?
sfc /scannow
NOTE: sfc may ask for your Windows 7 DVD so have it handy. And have patience because sfc may take a while and generally there's no indication if it succeeded or not when it's done.

Possible overheating? Look in Windows Event Viewer for errors like "Thermal Event", but absence of such an error doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Are you sure the CPU and chassis fans are both working? Did the CPU fan pass the diagnostics test?

You may consider removing the heat sink, carefully cleaning both surfaces and applying a thin coat of fresh thermal paste, eg Arctic Silver. Then reattach the heat sink and make sure it's correctly locked in place.

Instructions to remove the CPU fan and heat sink are in the manual.  Be careful when removing the fan and heat sink, not to pull the CPU out of its socket.

Hi Ron -

Thanks for responding. I've answered your questions inline below.

> Does it crash when a specific app is running, eg watching a video, using MS Office..?

* The machine crashes even when NO apps are running. Using msconfig, I've re-booted without loading any startup items. If I then leave the machine untouched, it will "freeze" within 15 to 60 minutes. If I re-boot then run lots of apps, it also freezes within 15 to 60 minutes. It seems not to matter how many apps or services are running. And yes, I know there are some services that run even when I re-boot with no startup apps.

> How much free space is available on the HDD? And have you defragged it recently?

* It's a 750GB hard drive with about 250GB free. I defrag every two weeks.

> Have you run chkdsk c:/r from Start>Run and rebooted when it asks if chkdsk should run on next boot?

* I've run CHKDSK /r numerous times. Occasionally, the machine runs CHKDSK on its own when re-booting. It sometimes finds and fixes a few errors. I've run several different hard disk diagnostics without finding any errors, including the built-in Pre-boot System Assessment that take many hours to run (available when pressing F12 during boot-up). No hard disk errors have been found by the Pre-boot System Assessment diagnostics.

> Have you run a Windows System File Check (sfc) from Start>Run using this command?

> sfc /scannow

> NOTE: sfc may ask for your Windows 7 DVD so have it handy. And have patience because sfc may take a while and generally there's no indication if it succeeded or not when it's done.

* I ran sfc /scannow several times recently while troubleshooting a Windows Update that would not install. sfc found one missing file. With some help from Sysnative I obtained the missing file and installed the missing update.

>Possible overheating? Look in Windows Event Viewer for errors like "Thermal Event", but absence of such an error doesn't mean it didn't happen.

* I have not looked for "Thermal Event" in the Windows Event Viewer. That's a good idea. However, the machine has been running the Dell Pre-boot System Assessment diagnostics continuously for the past 36 hours without any problems. Of course, Windows is not running while these diagnostics are running. Still, if overheating was the problem, I would expect it to show up during 36 hours of running diagnostics.

> Are you sure the CPU and chassis fans are both working? Did the CPU fan pass the diagnostics test?

* Both fans passed their diagnostics tests, but I have not visually verified that both fans are actually spinning. I can hear them both spin up during the diagnostics.

> You may consider removing the heat sink, carefully cleaning both surfaces and applying a thin coat of fresh thermal paste, eg Arctic Silver. Then reattach the heat sink and make sure it's correctly locked in place.

* Yes, I might do this just to eliminate this as a possibility. I think I have a tube of Arctic Silver left over from another project.

> Instructions to remove the CPU fan and heat sink are in the manual.  Be careful when removing the fan and heat sink, not to pull the CPU out of its socket.

* I have the service manual which includes instructions for removing the CPU fan and heat sink. I don't see any instructions for where to apply the thermal paste, but perhaps that will be obvious when I remove the fan and heat sink.

Thanks again,

Jeff

The diagnostics probably don't cause nearly as much CPU, HDD or RAM activity as when Windows is running, so that doesn't necessarily rule out overheating.

Lots of good vids on Youtube about cleaning the surfaces and applying fresh thermal paste so you might want to check out a couple of those before you start.

Have you reseated RAM modules and PCI cards in their slots?

You might also consider installing a new motherboard battery to rule it out. CR2032 3-volt coin cell battery, ~$2 at discount stores.

You updated a few drivers, but did you update the 2 Intel chipset drivers and the Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver? Go to the Intel download site and use their wizard to scan your hardware to find the latest compatible drivers. If an updated Intel video driver is offered, update that one too, even if you have an add-in video card.

Does the PC go to sleep or hibernate during those unattended times when it crashes? You might disable sleep and hibernation and set the power plan to turn off only HDD and monitor after a certain period of inactivity.  See if that helps...

What peripherals are connected? Have you disconnected all of them, aside from mouse, monitor and keyboard, and see if it still crashes?

Hi Ron -

Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.

After 72 consecutive hours of running every diagnostic available in Dell's Pre-boot System Assessment, no errors were found. All tests were passed. I then allowed the system to boot into Windows, and the machine locked up within 15 minutes. I re-booted into Windows with no start-up items running, and again the machine locked up within 15 minutes.

If anything, the situation seems to be getting steadily worse. The period of normal operation before a lock-up is growing shorter.

HOWEVER, the PC does NOT lock up if I boot into Safe Mode.

I am considering trying the Dell DataSafe Restore and Emergency Backup option on the System Recovery Options screen. I understand that this tool is designed to restore the computer to its original state.

In answer to your most recent message:

> The diagnostics probably don't cause nearly as much CPU, HDD or RAM activity as when Windows is running, so that doesn't necessarily rule out overheating.

* I understand that Windows might generate more heat than running non-GUI diagnostics.

> Lots of good vids on Youtube about cleaning the surfaces and applying fresh thermal paste so you might want to check out a couple of those before you start.

* I will certainly watch some videos before I attempt this.

> Have you reseated RAM modules and PCI cards in their slots?

* No, I have not done this yet.

> You might also consider installing a new motherboard battery to rule it out. CR2032 3-volt coin cell battery, ~$2 at discount stores.

* Good idea. I may have some CR2032's sitting around.

> You updated a few drivers, but did you update the 2 Intel chipset drivers and the Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver? Go to the Intel download site and use their wizard to scan your hardware to find the latest compatible drivers. If an updated Intel video driver is offered, update that one too, even if you have an add-in video card.

* I went to Intel's site about a week ago and updated all available drivers.

> Does the PC go to sleep or hibernate during those unattended times when it crashes? You might disable sleep and hibernation and set the power plan to turn off only HDD and monitor after a certain period of inactivity.  See if that helps...

* The PC has always been configured never to sleep, hibernate, or turn off the hard drive or monitor.

> What peripherals are connected? Have you disconnected all of them, aside from mouse, monitor and keyboard, and see if it still crashes?

* No peripherals are attached. I have remained connected to the network during all of this troubleshooting.

- Jeff

If it doesn't lock up in Safe Mode this is may actually be a software issue.

Power off and disconnect network cable (and/or disable WiFi card in Device Manager) and reboot.

Click Start>Run
Type in: msconfig
Click OK

When msconfig opens, click Startup tab.  Make note of which items are checked (not all may be checked).

Then uncheck everything and accept the offer to reboot. Assuming it doesn't freeze after it reboots normally, you can go back into msconfig and re-check one or a few at a time (of those originally checked) until you isolate the one causing the problems. Then uninstall and reinstall the culprit.

NOTES:

• Do not reconnect to your network until you re-check your antiviral software in msconfig and reboot or you may risk getting infected.
• Not everything in msconfig needs to be started at boot. Things like Adobe Reader may be checked so they can load their junk in the background, but they just hog resources. So you can leave those unchecked in msconfig. The software will still run normally, but only when you want it to run.

Hi Ron -

I disconnected the network cable and allowed the PC to run for 4 days in Safe Mode. It did not freeze during that time.

While still in Safe Mode, I ran msconfig and unchecked all Startup items. I then rebooted normally. The PC froze within 4 minutes after rebooting.

In summary, the PC will run properly in Safe Mode. However, it will freeze within minutes when rebooted normally, even with all Startup items unchecked.

Very curious.

- Jeff

That probably says some Windows process which starts during normal boot, but not when booting in Safe Mode, may be causing this problem.  You can't willy-nilly disable Windows processes because you could prevent the PC from booting. And then you're stuck...

So it sounds like you may have to bite the bullet, back up all your personal files on external media, wipe the drive and reinstall Windows. Make sure you have reinstallation media for all your software and the product keys that go with them first!

Hi Ron -

This PC came with Windows 7 Pro 64-bit and Office 2010 pre-installed but not set up. Dell did not provide installation disks for either Windows or Office. When I originally set up the computer, I was asked to enter the product keys for Windows or Office, and I have the keys.

The System Recovery Options (F8 > Repair Your Computer > Dell DataSafe Restore and Emergency Backup) offers the option to restore the Factory Image.

I understand that restoring the Factory Image will re-format the hard drive, and I'll lose all programs and data on the PC.

Am I correct to assume that if I successfully restore the Factory Image:

1. I will be able to set up Windows as if this was a newly-purchased PC

2. I will be able to set up Office as if this was a newly-purchased PC

3. I will have to install MANY updates to both Windows and Office using Windows Update?

Since I do not care if I lose the programs (except for Office) and data on this computer, is there any reason NOT to restore the Factory Image?

- Jeff

Everything should be like new from the factory after the factory image is restored, so you will have to:

1.  Make sure antiviral/malware software and firewall are running
2.  Download all Microsoft updates released since the PC was shipped to you
3.  Update all hardware drivers from Dell's site
4.  Re-configure all your optional/ and customized settings
5.  Install drivers for peripherals, eg printer, monitor, mouse, etc
6.  Install any software you need

Since you purchased Office directly from Dell but don't have the disk, you should be able to download it for free from My Dell Downloads along with any other free software Dell installed. You'll need the product key for Office to activate it.

A reason not to restore the factory is if you (or somebody else) figures out what's causing the PC to freeze so you can fix just that component. BTW: have you checked the Windows Event Viewer for errors around the time of a crash which might point you in the right direction?

Second reason is that I could just be wrong and there's some hardware or driver issue that could be fixed without reinstalling Win 7 from scratch.

BTW: Next time it crashes, copy the entire BSOD exactly / completely and post it here. Maybe we can make some sense out of that...

Hi Ron -

I took the extreme step of performing a factory restore on my troublesome Dell PC. This reset the machine to its "as purchased" state. So far it is NOT crashing.

After configuring Windows, I immediately downloaded and installed McAfee. Then I installed Microsoft Office. Then I tackled Windows Update.

The first group of approximately 50 updates installed without incident. I then check for more updates. and Windows found 219 additional updates. I tried installing all of them all at once, but that did not work as Windows reverted 199 updates after failing to configure properly.

Now I am attempting to install the 199 remaining updates in groups of 25-30 at a time, starting at the bottom of the list of updates. The problem with that approach is that I don't see any way to know for certain the order in which updates should be installed.

Is installing updates starting with those at the bottom of the list the correct way to do this?

- Jeff

Well, that's good news!

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "bottom to top".  Start from oldest to newest update. Typically, the lower the update (KB) number the older it is...