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October 23rd, 2014 05:00

Very interesting and Complex situation

Before i post this i want everyone to know i cannot believe dell would make machines that wouldnt work with other hardware, but if they did thats a darn shame

Hello fellow It people, i bring to you a confusing situation we have at our company.

I work for a radio station in phoenix, we bought 4 computers from a company that refurbishes pcs. They are ALL IDENTICAL well they have a couple differences

The ONAIR, PRODUCTION ROOM, and STREAMING pcs are IDENTICAL the ONLY difference is that the ONAIR has a larger hard drive and THAT IS THE ONLY difference.

all of the pcs in question have the following specs

DELL OPTIPLEX 745 MINI TOWER
Processor x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~2126 Mhz
the machines all say Intel Core 2 Duo on them
4 GB RAM
160 GB HDD (SATA)
CD ROM
WIndows XP sp3 (Exact version is 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600)

All machines have the following BIOS version (BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. 2.6.6, 6/26/2011)

we use XP on these machines because the sound hardware we run is professional sound cards that are run by PCI cards installed that run cables to breakout boxes to external devices, we use hardware by Echo Audio, Aardvark Sound, and M-Audio Sound.

Whenever we try to install the ECHO or ARDVARK into ANY of thesem achines the driver installs and as soon as it is accessed (a sound is played from it) we see the following thing happen to the machine, this happens on EVERY machine (makes sense since they are all identical)

the STRANGE thing is we have ANOTHER pc that we did not purchase from that company, it is an older dell as well, and when we install the echo, or aardvark on this machine it functions perfectly, for reference and comparison i have provided the specs from that machine as well, THERE IS SOMETHING that makes it work on this machine and not the other 3, the question i hope to answer is what that is , i welcome any conversation as our station is OFF AIR until we solve this mystery

the machine that all this hardware works on has the following specs

Dell Dimension B110
1 gb ram
WIndows XP sp3 (Exact version is 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600)
Intel Celeron D Processor
BIOS Version/Date Dell Computer Corporation A01, 1/3/2006
80gb hdd IDE
CD ROM


so that's all for now, maybe its a bios thing i don't know and if that's it that would be awesome if we can somehow put an older bios on i don't know, I DO know that these cards are not defective and work fine, so anyone at all out there that can see the issue please kindly comment here

We at the station thank you for your rapid response!

9 Legend

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47K Posts

October 23rd, 2014 05:00


The Issue is PCI 2.2 vs PCI 2.3 and has zero to do with DELL brand in particular.  PCI 2.2 is universal and supports older and newer cards.

Vendors were told as early as 1994 to start making universal Cards but most ignored this.  The pci spec eventually changed so that 3.3v only was supported in spec 2.3  Dell started making cards like that as early as the Optiplex GX110's 9629U NVIDIA VANTA PCI Card.


Its not complex and its basic. 5V only cards dont work pci 2.3 EVER.

5V Only PCI Cards do not work in PCI 2.3 systems because PCI 2.3 only supports 3.3v cards.

5V Cards are not supported in ANY new machine with PCI 2.3 Bus.

You can tell when cards are 5v only as they have one keyway.

The INTEL Intel 865 GV chipset in the Dimension 1100/B110 DDR 400 system is AGP and PCI 2.1 5v Only.

ECHO LAYLA CARD Almost 15 years old now.

AARDVARK CARD ALSO PCI 2.1

M Audio 2496  Same Issue.



4 Posts

October 23rd, 2014 12:00

Speedstep

going on your theory then your saying the M-Audio and the echo Gina and the Aardvark WILL NOT work in the Optiplexes 

Heres the trouble (and i have attached the card pics of the ACTUAL cards in question) the M-AUDIO DOES work on the optiplex, and they appear to be the same PCI structure, is it possible its something else?

This is the Echo GINA card

This is the AARDVARK ARK 20-20

THis is the M- Audio Delta 44 Card

What Am I Missing and more importantly where is the workaround, or are you telling me i have three dell optiplex systems that are worthless for the station!

OH BTW this may or may not be relevant but i noticed this morning that the Dimension has its internal NIC card disabled and has a PCI NIC installed in it, the optiplexes are all using their internal NIC, then again this may or may not matter???

9 Legend

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47K Posts

October 23rd, 2014 12:00

5V PCI Cards do not and will not work in PCI 2.3 Systems.  The card going into the slot is not an indication of working or not.

The Dimension 1100/B110 is a 5v PCI 2.1 system.

Newer systems from ANY vendor will be PCI 2.3 if they have PCI slots at all.

If the vendors do not provide PCI 2.2 or PCI 2.3 cards as replacements for the cards you have then you will not be able to get it working.  All of the Issues you are having are with NON DELL hardware. The NO MORE 5V cards change was official as early as 1995.

https://www.pcisig.com/developers/main/training_materials/get_document?doc_id=PCI_2.3_changes


4 Posts

October 23rd, 2014 12:00

well i had a dell support caht, that was about as worthless as these systems are to begin with, 

I know you dont know WHYthe m audio works i was hoping if i disabled the onboard LAN AND SOUND i would fix the issue, i saw the aardvark install, and reboot fine, and i even saw the aardvark sound manager come up, but as soon as i launched adobe, bam the NMI POS error comes up

Its funny everyone claims dell is so reliable, yet we have this to deal with

so it looks like we either use OLDER computers with less memory, or newer cards with these optiplexs, which are worth about as much trust as any dell lol

4 Posts

October 23rd, 2014 12:00

so that answers how the m audio card works and the others dont how exactly?

9 Legend

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47K Posts

October 23rd, 2014 12:00

I didn't design any of those cards so I cannot answer why something does or does not work.  I did see audio 2496 cards from 2003 that are the universal design so they would work in pci 2.3 systems.  Your Maudio Delta Series card says 1999.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/audiophile-2496

The same card from 2000 is 5v only


The REQUIREMENT FOR UNIVERSAL cards more than 10 years ago is not a Dell issue it has to do with Chipsets that have CPU's that run at less than 5V.  This is why ISA bus cards are also no longer supported along with 5V PCMCIA cards being replaced with 3.3V cardbus cards. The DIMENSION 1100/B110 and I Believe the OPTIPLEX GX110 and GX170 are all DDR systems with 5V PCI capability.

 Newer INTEL and AMD chipsets are PCI 2.3 meaning the last Chipset that supported 5V cards was the 800 series like the 810 845 and 850 chipset.

900 Series chipsets like the GX620 and 745 use are PCI 2.3  and 3.3V only.  The most RECENT chipsets Remove the 32 bit PCI slots altogether.

Conventional PCI

Spec Year Change   
PCI 1.0 1992 Original issue
PCI 2.0 1993 Incorporated connector and add-in card specification
PCI 2.1 1995 Incorporated clarifications and added 66 MHz chapter
PCI 2.2 1998 Incorporated ECNs, and improved readability
PCI 2.3 2002 Incorporated ECNs, errata, and deleted 5 volt only signaling
PCI 3.0 2002 Removed support for the 5.0 volt keyed system board connector

 

 



 

GOOD CARD

 

BAD CARD with no PCI buffers.


BAD CARD WITH PCI BUFFERS BUT 5V ONLY

9 Legend

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47K Posts

October 23rd, 2014 13:00

If the M audio card is Audiophile 24/96 Rev. B PCI 2.2 from 2003 with 2 keyways then the answer is obvious.  Your attribution that this is Dell's issue is incorrect. Getting 3 of these cards would address the PCI 2.3 issue.Your Maudio Delta Series card says 1999 and is 5v keyed.

There are no Pentium 4 and higher with PCI 2.3 bus systems that will support those cards.  Newer systems remove support for XP as well as remove the physical pci 2.3 slots altogether.

PCI 2.2 Universal cards work in 5v or 3.3v systems.

5v cards only work in systems with PCI 2.0 to 2.2 Bus.

Version 2.3 PCI bus does not support 5v cards period.

The Delta card is very specific about compatible hardware

• M Audio Delta 410 soundcard with version 4.1.22.38 drivers.
• Intel Pentium III Coppermine 1GHz PC, Asus TUSL2-C motherboard with Intel 815EP chipset, 512Mb PC133 RAM, running Windows 98SE.
• Other soundcards installed: Echo Mia, Yamaha SW1000XG.

Looking around there are other Delta cards from 2003 that are UNIVERSAL pci.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/M-Audio-Delta-1010-PCIx-Host-Adapter-Card-MAudio-10-10-Interface-S26870/251682027432

 

9 Legend

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47K Posts

October 23rd, 2014 14:00

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