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XPS8920 - a replacement m.2 NVMe SSD that CAN boot in SATA-ACHI
For some reason, the Samsung 960 M.2 NVMe will not boot in an XPS8920 system with SATA set to ACHI. With SATA set to RAID, it works just fine. I wanted a larger replacement that I could boot Windows on without having to use SATA-RAID.
Before returning the computer to the store I decided to exchange the Samsung for another if I could find one. So far I've been pretty loyal to Samsung and not really bothered looking at other SSD's.
I exchanged it for the Toshiba OCZ RD400 1TB PCIe NVMe M.2. The logic being that since Dell shipped a Toshiba in the original system, this might have the best chance to work if any would.
To be clear, in my specific case, WORK, means allow me to have the BIOS set to SATA-ACHI and boot from this drive in the M.2 slot. Something the Samsung could not (currently) do.
Somewhat surprising, it works!
So if you have an XPS8920, want to put in a new/different M.2 NVMe SSD, and desire to boot from this SSD with the BIOS set to SATA-ACHI, the Toshiba above will work. Probably others might also. Caveat: As of today at least, with the 1.0.4 BIOS that's currently available in this system.
I've not bothered with any benchmarks yet or even had time to install the Toshiba drivers which they recommend for peak performance.
This is how I migrated my original Dell SSD to the Toshiba RD400 - with ALL original partitions intact. I've not tested the recovery partition but I was most interested in the diagnostics partition and it works fine after the steps below.
The system as shipped was configured SATA-RAID.
TIH = Acronis True Image, running from USB recovery media. Note this is custom WinPE recovery media I created that includes several drivers used by many of my machines. I suspect the native Acronis recovery media will work just as well. Note that my recovery media can not see any M.2 drives in this system with the BIOS set to SATA-RAID. Hence step 4 below.
DD12 - Acronis Disk Director 12
1. Booted the new system, let Windows update itself.
2. Configured Windows to boot in Safe Mode
3. Rebooted and went into BIOS BEFORE Windows loads
4. Change from SATA-RAID to SATA-ACHI
5. Booted and let Windows start - in Safe Mode now
6. Not sure if it's required, but the internet connection was active. Looking quickly in device manager, I could see some devices had exclamation marks on them. Common when devices don't have drivers or can't be identified. Within 30 seconds, they were all resolved. My guess is that these were ACHI related items that Windows found and loaded drivers for without any actions on my part.
7. Configured Windows to boot normally - not in Safe Mode - booted.
8. The original Toshiba 256G now booting Windows 10 in SATA-ACHI
9. Imaged the Toshiba 256G to the internal 2TB HDD using TIH 2016
10. Shutdown and pulled the Toshiba 256GB - replacing it with the RD400
11. Booted into TIH 2016 recovery media - picked the backup from step 9 - restored everything to the RD400
12. Rebooted and Windows 10 loads fine from the RD400 with the BIOS still in SATA-ACHI
13. Checked the "alignment", all partitions aligned properly.
13. Loaded DD12
- moved the special partitions (diagnostics/recovery/factory image/etc) to the "end" of the drive
- resized the Windows 10 partition to consume the remaining unallocated space on this much larger SSD
14. Out of paranoia, re-checked the alignment. Perfect, all partitions.
That's it. Now I don't have the return the XPS8920 and Dell/Samsung can take their time fixing whatever the incompatibility is with the 960 SSD.
speedstep
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June 19th, 2017 05:00
The issue is that the F6 mass storage Drivers for NVME are not the Generic SATA AHCI drivers built into windows. SATA-ACHI and boot from this drive in the M.2 slot is not an option.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/memory-and-storage/consumer-ssds/000005967.html
http://download.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/nvme_boot_guide_332098001us.pdf
vtoy116
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June 19th, 2017 06:00
These documents are over two years old. If what you say is true then no M.2 NVMe SSD would boot in AHCI mode which is obviously not the case as folks here have done it.
speedstep
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June 19th, 2017 07:00
"No M.2 NVMe SSD would boot in AHCI mode which is obviously not the case as folks here have done it." You can't lump all vendors, all versions, all revisions in one lump sum. Microsoft in particular does not want to support moving drives from one machine to another with any mass storage driver. This issue is as old as windows itself.
You receive a Stop 0x0000007b error after you move the Windows system disk to another computer
STOP: 0x0000007B (0xF741B84C,0xC0000034,0x00000000,0x00000000)
INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE
For integrated device electronics (IDE), SATA, NVME controllers, there are several different chip sets available, such as Intel, ATI, NVIDIA, VIA, Promise. Each chip set and revision has a different Plug-n-Play identifier (PnP-ID). This is how Drivers are Identified.
The issue is with drivers and there is no one size fits all for NVME.
The NVME.INF file does not support many AHCI.INF or IASTOR.INF chipsets or drivers or devices. Its not likely to ever support this.
SECURE BOOT may also be playing a role here with CSM ON and Secure boot OFF with LEGACY Boot. This is because ELAM blocks booting of not recognized hardware.
If there were then no vendor would need drivers.
Its like saying I want one driver that works with all video cards all generations all vendors. Even within familys the built in drivers don't always recognize ATI or NVIDIA or INTEL Graphics.
The Booting issue is not dell its Microsoft and a lack of standards.
Even with the same chipsets for ATI or NVIDIA or INTEL AHCI Drivers have various versions and revisions.
What you are asking for is not something that comes from Dell.
Even with INTEL RST AHCI drivers as they go up in version they DROP SUPPORT for earlier chipsets aka AHCI Drivers.
11.2.0.1006 Device ID's from iaStor.inf:
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_27C3&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) ICH7R/DH SATA RAID Controller"
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_27C6&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) ICH7MDH SATA RAID Controller"
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2822&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller"
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_282A&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) Mobile Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller"
Note how ICH7 support is dropped.
11.6.0.1030 Device ID's from iaStorAC.inf:
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2822&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller"
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_282A&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) Mobile Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller"
speedstep
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June 19th, 2017 08:00
"NVMe SSD in SATA-AHCI " is a demand that the Generic Sata Driver support all vendors all device ID's. This isnt ever going to happen. Windows USB Mass Storage Drivers had the same Issue a long time ago where even though they were all USB Flash storage they had different drivers for each vendor. This is not a tangent its a demand of dell to make Drivers for any NVME vendor. Thats not going to happen. Booting has security and Secure boot and Driver implications. Apple OSX had the same Issue with their SSD drives. Now you can use any SSD by using Trimforce enable. If they could all use the SAME driver then there would be no such thing as INTEL NVME drivers or Samsung NVME Drivers etc. He wants it to work with SATA AHCI because he doesn't know how or doesnt want to bother with installing VENDOR SPECIFIC DRIVERS for cloning.
Neither Dell nor Microsoft Support Cloning. Sysprep images are supported but only as Base install. You cannot sysprep service packs and drivers and app patches.
What is being asked for is not forthcoming and won't be.
They hide blue screens now.
http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools.html
vtoy116
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June 19th, 2017 08:00
Let's not get off on some tangent. The subject of this thread is the XPS 8920 and booting an M.2 NVMe SSD in SATA-AHCI mode and more specifically booting in Windows 10. I may have missed it but it appears that rh310 was successful without having to load any special drivers although he did clone his original SSD instead of doing a fresh install of Windows. To my knowledge, Dell does not provide any special drivers for the original Toshiba 256GB M.2 NVMe SSD.
vtoy116
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June 19th, 2017 08:00
You seem to know all the answers since you appear to always check Suggested Answer in your replies. I don't think rh310 is demanding anything of Dell, he is only pointing out an apparent issue with one of the most popular M.2 NVMe SSDs and the XPS 8920. He is not the only one that has had this issue. Others that have had this problem solved it by using SATA-RAID mode. By the way the built-in Windows 10 driver works fine with the Samsung SSD; the Samsung driver only provides better performance.
speedstep
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June 19th, 2017 09:00
He specifically said he wanted to clone TOSHIBA to SAMSUNG and reboot and everything would work.
The truth is it wont.
The mass storage drivers for toshiba do not mach samsung and vice versa. He also wants to boot a cloning utility disk and have it "see" the other vendor using the generic SATA AHCI drivers. If windows does not see a drive you must "Browse" for a driver which was the F6 method in XP.
There is a problem but its not dell. Wanting to have it work in SATA AHCI mode isnt a dell problem.
Cloning is not supported by Microsoft or Dell.
speedstep
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June 19th, 2017 09:00
Cloning is not supported by Microsoft or Dell.
Nor are
TIH = Acronis True Image and DD12 - Acronis Disk Director 12
If an image was created without using Sysprep, neither DELL NOR Microsoft supports the running of Sysprep after the image is deployed as a way to bring the computer back into compliance. Sysprep must be run before the capture of the image. The Plug and Play devices on the reference and destination PCs do not have to be from the same manufacturer. These devices include storage controllers, modems, sound cards, network adapters, and video cards. However, the installation must include the drivers for these devices.
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh825209.aspx
You need a tool to capture an image of the installation, such as Deployment Image Servicing and Management (DISM)
vtoy116
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June 19th, 2017 10:00
Again you are way off topic. Apparently rh310 got cloning to work with Windows 10 and the XPS 8920. He also got a M.2 NVMe SSD to work in SATA-AHCI with the XPS 8920. The only Dell/Samsung problem is the Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe SSD. I think it is helpful for all the owners of XPS 8920s who want to use the Samsung 960 SSD in SATA-AHCI that rh310 has made them aware of this issue. There are several posts where owners of these devices had issues only to discover they had to operate in SATA-RAID.
rh310
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June 19th, 2017 12:00
"SATA-ACHI and boot from this drive in the M.2 slot is not an option."
It is very much and option and works just fine. Just as long as it's not the Samsung 960.
I have no interest in discovering WHO to blame. Just pointing out what does not work and what does work for those who were in my situation. Which is, wanting this (8920) and booting from NVMe in the m.2 slot WITHOUT being forced to run in SATA-RAID mode.
speedstep
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June 19th, 2017 12:00
Again your blame is misplaced. SATA-AHCI is the INTEL Generic Driver. Samsung has a specific Driver.
This driver supports Samsung NVMe SSD 960 PRO, 960 EVO and 950 PRO. There are also firmware updates at the site.
NONE of this is a Dell problem.
All of it is on topic.
http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools.html
Samsung_950_PRO_NVMeDriver_InstallationGuide_Rev11.pdf
Samsung_NVM_Express_Driver_22.zip
The driver supports Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.
Recommended system configuration (minimum):
Intel Haswell Refresh Processor
2GB RAM
50MB free disk space
UEFI Bios v2.3
rh310
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June 19th, 2017 12:00
"He wants it to work with SATA AHCI because he doesn't know how or doesnt want to bother with installing VENDOR SPECIFIC DRIVERS for cloning."
Not really. I want to work with SATA-ACHI because I've never needed/used RAID nor do I really want to learn it. it's possible I don't understand how much better RAID is but on my other systems I'm getting the same benchmarks that Samsung posts so I'm happy, old, and not interested in switching.
My limited understanding of RAID is that it's great for mission critical systems so that when a drive goes bad, you just yank it and put in a new one. No dealing with backups. I'm certainly not mission critical, do daily backups, and only need them every 7-10 years. Hence the concept of RAID in this example is way cool but not necessary for me.
rh310
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June 19th, 2017 13:00
"Cloning is not supported by Microsoft or Dell."
Here you probably misunderstood or took my language too literally. Cloning/imaging I use interchangeably.
I'm not taking a clone/image to dissimilar hardware - in which case indeed sysprep is required.
I was simply replacing the drive that came with the Dell with another larger drive. It's done often and works very well without complications.
As illustrated above. The cloned/imaged 1TB Toshiba runs just fine. It's just another NVMe drive using the built in Windows NVMe drivers.
rh310
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June 19th, 2017 13:00
Also, one of the many iterative scenarios I went through was to just install Win10 fresh on the Samsung.
In this scenario I was not using any of my recovery media. Just the USB build by the MS tool that creates a Win10 installer.
In SATA-ACHI, when booted from that media, it had no problem seeing the Samsung 960 (no F6/drivers needed) and happily installing Windows 10 on it. But, you could not boot from it.
However, if you just went into the BIOS and changed it to SATA-RAID, the newly installed Windows 10 would boot and run fine.
So, it's odd that the MS created media could see and install to the Samsung in SATA-ACHI but not boot from it unless it was in SATA-RAID. The message that appeared on the screen looked more like a BIOS message. Since the Win10 installer saw the drive and installed to it, presumably any drivers needed to boot from it would also be installed.
gspears
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September 15th, 2017 14:00
I disagree with you on this and agree with the other users here. The Samsung AHCI drivers for the 960 pro and evo are meant to be loaded on a working system. They don't provide a version you can inject during installation so you can then boot from the Samsung drive. And none of the Samsung Software will run with the system in RAID mode. So there is not way to utilize that driver.
But basically what it boils down to for me is that if Dell provides me a system with a M.2 slot, then I should be able to boot from that M.2 drive in AHCI mode using the most popular SSDs on the market.
I was able to get my 1TB 960 EVO to boot in my 8920 but only in RAID mode so it's terribly crippled and I can't utilize any of Samsung's software to fix it since the system is running in RAID mode. It's very frustrating.
And as for the cloning thing, I clone my disk also as a backup and when I move to a new drive and/or a faster system. Not to defeat Microsoft, or Dell or whatever. Just as a convenience. And if it doesn't work, then I just reload and move everything the hard way. And I don't ask Dell for support in this.
Again, I do however feel my Dell system should boot from whatever M.2 drive I choose to use. If you are going to put a M.2 drive in my system it should be fully functional.
Otherwise, why should I buy Dell?