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DELL Studio XPS 16 1645 i7 power problem
Update 4 (2/13/2010):
Bios A07 shows a significant improvement with the 130w charger.
There is still throttling that need to be analyzed, most likely this throttling is a machine limitation.
For now, the system is able to run near the advertised specs.
Please post your experience with the updated BIOS.
Update 3:
Dell is finally listening, they are replacing the 90 watt charger with a 130 watt slim charger with a promise of a BIOS fix version A07 that is promised to fix the problem.
Will update upon the testing of the BIOS.
here is how to place a replacement request in USA and Canada
http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19320784.aspx
Update 2
DELL thinks a BIOS release will fix the problem and is working on it now.
ALL the people who performed all kind of testing in NBR assures the engineers at DELL that a BIOS fix will not fix the problem completely without the use of a charger of higher power. Using Throttlestop the system was able to consume 110-120 watts under load.
Some people will accept a BIOS that throttle up to the maximum power of the charger used so for a 90 watts charger the system throttles at 90 watts, for a 130 watts, it throttles at 130 watts.
Some people are planning a class action browse the thread for more information.
Update
Here is our group findings so far
1. The power conservative BIOS forces the system to throttle to 7x when the power consumption is around 90 watts due to one or more of the following reasons:
a. Limitation of the power supply capability
b. Limitation of the motherboard to accept more than 90 watts (This reason is from DELL, but we suspect it)
c. To increase the battery life
d. To limit heat generation
obviously DELL should be blamed for poor design if it is a, b, or d.
2. Thanks to unclewebb there is a software now to unlock the throttle, this one will almost certainly put the 90 watt charger to rest or fire.
3. Due to the power limitation, it looks like the people with the RGBLED are most affected by the problem due to the added power consumption.
4. DELL is aware of the problem, but according to them it only affects a small percentage of people that put the system on full performance.
5. DELL keeps saying that the 130 watts adapter is not the solution of the problem, which is quite true as it needs both an adapter and BIOS update.
6. After a long wait, DELL acknowledged that there is a problem and that they will address it soon without announcing a time frame.
7. We as a group lack the trust in DELL fixing the problem to our satisfaction.
I think most of our group will agree on the above.
With all the above said, i am quite happy that mine was returned back to DELL after a frustrating experience with DELL level 1, 2, and 3 technical support. This doesn't represent the other members as most of them are happy with their notebook but expect action from DELL.
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We are among the first to receive our DELL studio XPS 16 1645 with i7. We have some benchmark results that strongly suggest that the equipped 90W charger is not providing enough power to the system. To summarize, the performance of the system is correlated to the brightness of the monitor which suggests that the power provided is not enough so when the monitor is dimmed it allows more power to be consumed by the system. Here is some findings:
Here is the findings, if you stress the laptop using 3Dmark06 the performance is correlated to the brightness of the screen, here is the findings
Full brightness: 5003 3DMark '06
SM2.0: 1664
SM3.0: 2189
CPU: 2568
Lowest brightness: 5405 3DMark '06
SM2.0:1834
SM3.0: 2326
CPU: 2785
To further see the effect of the power consumption, i ran Crysis benchmark for two cases with one difference, the power source battery and minimum brightness vs charger and maximum brightness. I used the exact same settings for power plan (High performance and optimize performance for powerplay)
On Charger, Battery full, maximum brightness
Run #1- DX10 1024x768 AA=No AA, 32 bit test, Quality: Low ~~ Last Average FPS: 68.75
Run #2- DX10 1024x768 AA=No AA, 32 bit test, Quality: Medium ~~ Last Average FPS: 30.24
Run #3- DX10 1024x768 AA=No AA, 32 bit test, Quality: High ~~ Last Average FPS: 20.38
On Battery, minimum brightness
Run #1- DX10 1024x768 AA=No AA, 32 bit test, Quality: Low ~~ Last Average FPS: 80.31
Run #2- DX10 1024x768 AA=No AA, 32 bit test, Quality: Medium ~~ Last Average FPS: 50.93
Run #3- DX10 1024x768 AA=No AA, 32 bit test, Quality: High ~~ Last Average FPS: 29.50
To further test the claim that the power is not enough, an external monitor is connected and to our surprise the system showed its muscles with best performance.
The correlation to the between the brightness and performance, and the heat generated from the charger strongly suggested that the charger is not providing enough power under full load.
It will be a shame if the power adapter is not adequate specially after the whole mess of delaying orders.
[Poll]
QuadSk8erBill
9 Posts
0
January 13th, 2010 21:00
There is yet another leaked firmware (this one from Dell France) being looked over at notebookreview.com. Some are reporting that this firmware allows the wattage draw to be upped (just like we've been asking) to more than 90 watts (when paired with a 130 watt adapter). The max draw reported on a 130 watt adapter was 127 watts. This firmware version is A05.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=446193&page=42
If this is true, then Dell just might be listening to us (if so thank you so much Dell). Hopefully, Dell makes it easier for us to get 130 watt adapters when we call in. I wonder if this new firmware will allow even a greater draw from a 150 watt adapter (that RGB screen really pulls the power). In any case, now I'm really looking forward to the next Dell firmware. This might make the difference for me (I've been considering returning this laptop which I otherwise love).
unclewebb
38 Posts
0
January 14th, 2010 12:00
I wish I had some answers for you but you'll have to ask Dell who is in charge of writing firmware for their laptop motherboards.
I have no idea what components were used in these laptops. All I know is that a 90 watt power adapter that you need oven gloves to move, is totally inadequate for any laptop that uses both a Core i7 Quad core CPU combined with an ATI 4670 GPU. Other manufacturers with similar hardware use 120 watt adapters and up. Why does Dell think you can adequately power one of these with a 90 watt adapter? You can't.
The only way this can be done is if you use a bios that severely throttles the performance of the CPU and with the latest leaked A05 bios, it looks like now they're throttling the GPU as well.
A 90% CPU performance loss when gaming do to throttling is simply unacceptable. If you're going to sell a product that is so badly crippled in normal use then you need to warn customers before they purchase this item. They don't even include software or any way for a customer to find out how much throttling is killing their performance.
Edit: Here's an excerpt from a log file sent to me of a user playing Crysis Warhead. This game only creates about a 25% load on the CPU but look at how performance drops in a matter of seconds due to throttling. From multipliers in the 16 to 17 range, down to 13 and then clock modulation kicking in down to 25.0% with dips to 12.5%. That's a performance loss that anyone would notice. It's just wrong to use clock modulation throttling to compensate for not shipping an adequate power adapter. The same game runs smooth with no throttling when using a 130 watt adapter combined with ThrottleStop. That enables the CPU to use the extra power and to go beyond the 90 watt limit imposed by the bios.
The DTS column is a direct reading from the on chip digital thermal sensor and shows that there is still 38 or 39 degrees of headroom available before this Intel CPU will start to thermal throttle. In other words, it's not the CPU overheating that is causing this slow down. It's running well within spec.
QuadSk8erBill
9 Posts
0
January 14th, 2010 13:00
I'm bummed, but I needed to get an RMA for returning my laptop. Actually, it was not due to the throttling (which was a concern of mine, but not the main one). All the sound that was supposed to go to the left speaker, was going to both speakers (itunes, media player, even in some audio diagnostics). Dell came out and replaced my motherboard and my speakers and the problem still persists. Even with the headphone jacks, sound wasn't properly isolated in the left and right head set. Sounds that should only play in the left, played in both (and the same for the right for the headphone jack). Here is one of the tests I used (which worked fine on an older Dell laptop). This test is easiest to see the failure with head phones (on my laptop at least):
http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php
I will still monitor this throttling issue in hopes of a resolve. I would get another Studio XPS 16 right now, but I want a new one (not a refurb from tech support) and there are no blu-ray burners one can get right now. I guess it is all for the best as I wait for this throttling issue to play out. Right now there are no competitor's Windows 7 laptops I want as much. I wish we could just get a Studio XPS 16 that worked on all fronts. Maybe someday we will be able to.
kenshee78
10 Posts
0
January 14th, 2010 20:00
I got my xps 1645 wednesday and returning it tomorrow(friday). It's a beautiful system but unfortunately it still had the 90 watt power supply and after trying to convince Dell's technical support(who I think are oblivious or either ignorant) that this system needs more than just 90 watts, I'm giving it up coz I just can't believe DELL is selling a flawed laptop. I also did the audiochecks and found out that there was definitely bleeding into the other speakers which totally made me decide to return it.( after being transferred to 3 different tech support people). Thanks quadsk8erbill. Please don't buy this laptop!!!
Gabrius
1 Message
0
January 15th, 2010 03:00
Hi everyone,
I seem to run it to the same problems as everyone above me :). Same system, same sound and performance problems. I've been trying to solve it with Belgian DELL customer and technical support, but sadly so far nothings worked out.
First of all after waiting about one week after first call to tech department I received an answer that the computer is working as intended and that they cannot do anything about it. That is AFTER i showed the this forum, told about upcoming BIOS update etc. Incompetence at its best.
Secondly when I found a person who acknolidged that there might be a real problem I was explained that they don't have a time frame for solving this problem, and neither they can help with anything.
Two sollutions came out of it - Either i sit waiting for an new Bios update and hope for it to work, or I can start writing letters to their Amsterdam office and ask them to take computer back and return the money.
I'm really thinking about returning it or maybe asking for a other system, because this kind of tech support for this excact model is not very reassuring. :(
What are other ppl doing? Are you going to wait and hope? Or are you taking action and returning the computers?
best
97mg
14 Posts
0
January 15th, 2010 03:00
QuadSk8erBill Im so sorry to hear of your troubles!
As someone largely going to use my XPS 1645 for music your audio concerns freaked me out, so I ran the test at http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php and found that the sound does indeed bleed between Left and Right. But thankfully at least when I went into Enhanced Audio Controls and ran a balance test through the speakers and both headphone jacks, it seems that everything is fine, with no sound bleed. iTunes also passed... phew!
Im checking for throttling now my system is:
i7 720
90W Adaptor
WLED Display
Running Prime95 and CPU-Z Im finding it really difficult to get an accurate reading, as I am also running an app to display the use of each of the 8 threads, and even when running one heavy thread the CPU seems to utilise all cores... possibly to offer some processing to background services etc?
1 thread test is sitting stable at 2.4GHZ.
2 thread test is also 2.4GHZ.
4 thead test is 1.72GHZ.
Will do more testing soon as am yet to see 2.8GHZ...
Peace,
Iv
jliao87
1 Message
0
January 15th, 2010 07:00
Hi all,
I've had the issue outlined above and contacted dell several times regarding this problem. I'm running with a Q820 processor, HD4670, and RGBLED monitor.
Dell iterated to me, about 2 weeks back, that the new BIOS update would be released Jan 15. I thought little about the date taking it to indicate "soon" but i had the date confirmed to me today by another representative.
So keep an eye out on the support site today I suppose.
Also does anyone seem to have major heat issues? I had complained about the heat and ran CPUID hardware monitor last night while playing WoW on high settings (brightness on the system to low so it would run). The CPU was detected at reaching 78 degrees C and lightly burned my legs.
The representative said that the new BIOS would also fix the heating issue but I'm not exactly hopeful...
Baldip
32 Posts
0
January 15th, 2010 11:00
Hi,
I recently got this laptop as a replacement for my Gaming XPS m1730. --> Which every single part has been replaced except for battery and the ram. Some even got replaced more than twice.
My Specs: Studio XPS 16 (1645)
i7 QM720, 6DDR3, Ati 4670, 500GB 7200Rpm, RGBLED LCD
I have the same problem as the rest of you, so I called dell. I ended up talking to the manager. She said that the bios update should have fixed it. I live in Canada, the latest one was A03. Which did not fix the problem. They said that the 130watt ac adapter seems to work, but the system itself is on specified for 90watt and they do not know if your system will last when using a 130 watt. Of course, I told them about this forum. They also said that it was a multimedia desktop. Which in previous replies that it was listed as gaming. I told them that I had a XPS m1730 gaming laptop. It ran better than this laptop in gaming. They told me when replacing the laptop that it had a better graphics card. But 3DMarks06 tests were the opposite. When reducing the brightness in game, speeds up the performance of the game (no lag) and increase the the brightness increases the lag. 3Dmarks06 test also shows the problem.
The manager told me that they know about this, and that its only a problem with the Studio xps 16 (1645). She told me that they would replace me with the studio xps 16 (1640) with the same specs. She said that the 1640 does not have this problem. This is even with a 90 watt AC adapter. So I have to wait for the replacement. But if anyway can verify the problem with the 1640. Let me know.
And the sound is terrible, there seems to be a problem with crackling, but since I am getting another replacement. I will wait and see for the quality of those.
QuadSk8erBill
9 Posts
0
January 15th, 2010 11:00
I should have offered more details (if I have time maybe I'll start up another thread dedicated to audio). Some of the L/R sound checks work for my laptop (from the speakers) and some don't. The most important ones I care about (such as itunes) didn't work (which is probably why I made it sound all encompassing). Do you have a MP3 that has dedicated left right sound checks (it is too hard to tell precisely with many songs)? I used a Stereophile dog bark rip (i.e. "listen to the dog bark in the left"). This shows the problem clear as day in both itunes and media player. I believe (I'd need to reconfirm) that the Enhanced Audio Controls test worked fine for me as well.
If you are really concerned, reboot and hit f12 to go to boot the low level diagnostics tests. After the main tests run, you can select specific tests. I went to the audio area. The analog audio test worked fine (for left and right), but the mono audio test failed. When the mono signal was sent to the left, it played in both left and right speakers. The mono signal sent to the right played only in the right speaker (as it should). What I experienced with the speakers (in iTunes and Media player) was exactly reproduced in the Dell diagnostic's mono test.
I'd be curious if the mono test works for you. Which speaker the test is playing in at any given time in listed in the upper right quarter of the screen.
MikeV07042
17 Posts
0
January 16th, 2010 14:00
I also ordered and returned an S-XPS 16 due both to the throttling issue and the fact that I originally built the system with a blu-ray burner and Dell removed it when they became unavailable. Thanks for all of the info here. I was just looking into the HP Envy 15 with the $350 coupon. It comes available in the i7 quad and i5 versions, both with the ATI 5830 Graphics card. It comes standard with a 120 W AC adapter and listed on the accessory page is a 180W AC adapter, compatible, obviously, with the Envy 15 system. It also comes with USB 3.0.
Does anyone know if the Envy 15 is capable of taking advantage of the integrated graphics chip on the i5? Is it either manually or automatically capable of switching between the ATI card and the integrated graphics as some of the newer systems are? This was the one question the sales rep could not answer.
Also, for some reason, the ATI card with the i5 is different than the same ATI card with the i7...with the i5 it takes up to of the DIMM spaces only allowing for a 4GB RAM while I was planning on putting 6GB on the system (which is allowed with the i7 CPU and GPU). Anyone have any insight?
Thanks again, Mike
SPJ11
8 Posts
0
January 16th, 2010 15:00
Thanks for the info.
I cancelled my order today because of these postings here. I ordered the alienware 15x instead. does anyone here know if that system with these specs will have the same issue? A dell tech support guy said no, and did state the problem with the XPS 1645 was a real problem.
I am going to use this sytem for some 3d rendering with AutoCAD. I think it should be good for this. here are the specs of the new system let me know what you guys think.
Intel Core i7 720QM 1.6GHz (2.8 GHz Turbo Mode, 8MB Cache)
6GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1333MHz 1 x 2048MB + 1 x 4096MB
1GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M
500GB SATAII 7,200RPM
thanks in advance
RaymondKL
37 Posts
0
January 16th, 2010 16:00
Not sure how accurate the below link is but it should give you a gut feel where the 15x graphic card sits relative to other cards.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html
Looks pretty good ranked no:20
Cheers
SPJ11
8 Posts
0
January 16th, 2010 16:00
Well he did give it to me for $1899 so there was a decent break on the price. all in all i guess the alien ware should be a bit faster than the xps 1645 with pretty much the same specs. The 15x does have SATA 2 and the gt 260m instead of the ati 4670 right?? hope this thing will do what i need it to.
thanks for the reply
nytefog
1 Message
0
January 16th, 2010 16:00
This is the respones about the issue that i recieved from Dell.\
BruceL86
13 Posts
0
January 16th, 2010 16:00
Thanks to all of you who are doing the testing and posting your results for the benefit of everyone. I sure wish someone from Dell would pop on the site every few days and just say hi we are reading the posts and taking the issue seriously. This would go a long way toward healing the damage done to long time Dell customers. Has anyone tested the new BIOS with an external monitor? If so was there any significant throttling? I ordered the 1645 with the i-7 to do HD video editing using Vegas and most of the time I use two external monitors. I move between three offices so I need the portability of a lap top combined with the highest amount of processing power I can get.