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January 21st, 2020 03:00

dell 130w usb-c charging xps 7590 and smartphone

i am thinking about to get the 130w usb-c charger which should be compatible with my xps 7590.
but the real task would be: could it charge my smartphone (samsung s10) too without destroying it?
is pd-chargin build in where the device could ask for a certain amount of juice and gets it up to 130w?

that would be soo cool because i only need one powerful adapter to charge every device (tablet, smartphone, headphones, ...)

thanks and all my best

telemarker

February 28th, 2020 17:00

hey jphughan,

i tested the dell 130W usb c power delivery and it works quite well using the fully 130W amount (i dont know how the put it through the usb-pd limitation of 100W, but hey who cares if its working even with fast charge included.
for 3rd party chargers dell secretly restricts the power consumtion to 65W (which you can check in bios) - all third party charges over 65W are quite useless here.

the only problem with the 130W dell usb c is that the pd charging for other devices is kinda slow because the engineers forgot many positions for the V and A.
20V@6,5A = 130W / 5V@6,5A = 32,5W / 20V@1A = 20W / 5V@1A = 5W (you have been wrong on this).
meaning that your smartphone will not quickcharge even it might get the most powerful juice.
this is a very devastating fact once you know in the 45W, 65W and 90W version of the dell usb-c it will quickcharge for sure because those charges support more steps between 5 to 20W on the low end which the 130W simply does not.
eventually this will overcome with future phones that support 40W charging - but wait - still that is not possible with the 130W charger.
anyway its the best solution if you run all your devices on usbc and just want to travel light weight.

for the next generation of chargers they should implement the following pd-conditions:
20V / 15V / 12V / 5V @ 6,5A / 5A / 4,5A / 3,25A / 3A / 2A / 1A which would result in this:
= 130W / 100W / 90W / 75W / 65W / 60W / 45W / 40W / 25W / 20W / 15W / 10W / 5W

also dell, please get rid of the old round ac charger bricks, everything will be usb pd in future and you can swap another thunderbolt/usb-c port which would gave us mor freedom (hopefully the upcoming xps 7500 will support this).

14 Posts

February 6th, 2020 06:00

Yes, it's fine

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14K Posts

February 8th, 2020 11:00

The way USB PD works is that everything always starts off at 5V for compatibility with legacy devices that don't support USB PD, because 5V is what "regular USB" has always used.  Then the charger advertises any additional modes it supports, and the device is then allowed to choose from those alternate modes if it wants them.  This prevents chargers from trying to supply higher voltages than the device can support, and it prevents devices from trying to draw more than the charger can supply.  So yes, it will be completely fine.

The typical USB PD charger voltages are 5V, 9V, 15V, and 20V.  Not all chargers support all of those voltage levels, but the Dell 130W charger does. (EDIT: It seems the Dell 130W charger may be limited to only 5V and 20V. See below.)

As for only needing one charger, are you sure you'll never need to charge more than one device simultaneously, even when charging things overnight?  I personally travel with this charger.  The 60W port is enough to charge my XPS 15 while it's asleep (not enough to run it at max performance, but that's fine for my travel purposes), the 18W port is enough to charge my iPhone at max speed using a Lightning to USB-C cable, and then I use one of the USB-A ports for my watch and another for either my AirPods, USB battery pack, or Skype for Business headset, none of which need to be charged every night.  It's awesome.

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14K Posts

February 28th, 2020 20:00

@real_telemarker  Where did you get these specs you posted?

20V@6,5A = 130W / 5V@6,5A = 32,5W / 20V@1A = 20W / 5V@1A = 5W

5V at 6.5A isn’t allowed. USB PD maxes out at 5A, and I’m almost certain that when you’re only using 5V, the max you can provide is 3A.  And I don’t see why Dell would have done something proprietary to provide 5V at 6.5A the way they did something proprietary to provide 130W output. As you say, 5V at 6.5A is 32.5W, but there are USB PD-compliant ways to provide that output, unlike 130W — so it makes no sense to do something proprietary to provide 32.5W. In fact it would be dumb, because any output over 3A requires using cables rated for 5A, whereas providing 32.5W using 15V or 20V output would not require special cabling since the required amperage at those voltages would be less than 3A. So 5V at 6.5A would be a proprietary solution that was less convenient than the options already available in the USB PD standard.

And on top of all that, USB PD chargers don’t specify individual amperage levels. They specify individual VOLTAGE levels, and then a MAXIMUM amperage level. The device being charged then selects a voltage level and then draws whatever amperage it needs at any given time, which changes based on load. You can see this if you connect a USB-C multimeter between your charger and device sometime.

All that said, if you can’t fast charge your phone, it’s probably because your phone only supports fast charging at certain VOLTAGE levels and the Dell charger doesn’t support those levels.  Many phones use 9V for fast charging and some tablets use 15V, but they typically do not support 20V.  So if the Dell charger only supports 5V and 20V, which would be unfortunate if true, then those devices would have to use 5V and would be limited to whatever amperage level the charger provides or the device can accept at that voltage level.

But what exactly do you mean when you claim that I “have been wrong on this”? I said earlier in this thread that using the Dell charger with a smartphone would be fine, in that it would not damage the phone or charger, since you specifically wanted to know if you could use the Dell charger with your smartphone without "destroying" it.  I did NOT say that the Dell charger would charge your smartphone at maximum speed, in fact I specifically DID say in my earlier post above that not all USB PD chargers support all voltage levels. So maybe be a bit more careful before you go around telling people they’re wrong -- especially considering that in the same post where you claimed I was wrong, you yourself were wrong about how amperage delivery works, since you suggested that future USB PD chargers provide a wide range of amperage levels, which isn't how the spec works.  Next time, instead of incorrectly calling people out for being wrong, perhaps just thank them for taking the time to try to help you, even though you're just some random person on the Internet to them and it's not like they're being paid to take that time out of their lives to help you.

And yes, I'm well aware of the 65W limit when using third-party chargers, in fact I created a thread about that here months ago.

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14K Posts

February 29th, 2020 10:00

@real_telemarker  Ah I see.  I obviously missed that part of my earlier post when rereading this thread.  In that case, it's possible that Dell changed the specs of its 130W charger, or I may have been thinking of Dell's Power Companion USB-C battery pack that supports all of the voltage levels I specified and is supported on the XPS 15, although I realize that's a completely different product.  But whichever is the true cause, I'm sorry that what I posted didn't align with your experience and for jumping down your throat.  I just found it irritating that you went out of your way to call me wrong and yet couldn't be bothered to thank either of the people who posted here for taking the time to help you, even if the information they may have provided wasn't perfect.

As to the amperage levels, once again there isn't a concept of "more amperage levels".  USB PD chargers can specify the maximum amperage they can provide for each voltage level they support, and the device can draw any amperage level it wants between 0A and that maximum -- and the amperage it actually draws fluctuates constantly based on its load, whereas the voltage level is kept constant.  So for example you couldn't make a USB PD charger that supported 1A and 3A, but not 2A -- which means that there's no need for "more amperage levels" to create a universal charger.  The only question is the maximum output the charger can provide for a given voltage level.  As to why there aren't more universal chargers, all else being equal, chargers that support more voltage levels will cost more because that requires more electronics, and chargers that provide more total output even with limited voltage options will be physically larger and cost more.  There are still relatively few USB-C devices on the market that can use more than 60W (which is already supported by lots of existing chargers), so perhaps vendors have decided that there simply isn't enough of a market for high wattage output devices yet.  But there are some such devices.  I have a 90W Nekteck wall charger, but the brick is a bit large, so I generally keep it at home and travel with a multi-device charger that provides 60W out of one of its USB-C ports.  There's also the Lifepowr A3 is a battery pack that supports 87W output, although it was originally planned to support 100W and they had to limit it to 87W near the end of their design cycle because they encountered overheating issues and decided it wasn't worth redesigning the entire product at that stage.

February 29th, 2020 10:00

its all good
thanks for pointing out the pd-levels, to my understanding now that means my dream charger just needs more voltage levels:

20V / 15V / 12V / 5V @ 1A - 6.5A

that would be even more easy to achieve - just add 15V and 12V to the next generation of 130W chargers.
ps: i don't know why they are not keeping my original post (maybe it because of the pictures).

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14K Posts

February 29th, 2020 11:00

@real_telemarker  I agree it does seem like a missed opportunity if Dell produced a 130W charger that only supports 5V and 20V.  I can't imagine it would have added THAT much cost and complexity to add support for 9V and 15V output.  But Dell isn't the only one in this position.  Apple has a USB-C charger (I think the 87W model) that doesn't support 15V output, and that came back to bite them when they started producing iPads with USB-C connectors that rely on....15V.  I think their 29W charger had a similar issue, but that's been replaced with a 30W charger that supports all voltage levels.  Maybe Dell will do the same at some point.

However, ask yourself this.  Even if you had a charger that supported 130W output and could charge any device you had at maximum speed, how useful would that really be?  I've personally found multi-port chargers like the Satechi charger I linked in my first post here to be much more useful than a single-port high output charger, for the reason I specified.  There are FAR more times that I'd much prefer to charge multiple devices simultaneously than be able to charge devices one at a time each at maximum speed.  That situation occurs basically every night, for example.  In that case, I don't care if the device takes longer to charge since I'll be asleep anyway, but I definitely wouldn't want to have to get up in the middle of the night to switch my charger over to another device.  The Satechi charger allows me to charge my laptop (at 60W), my phone (at its max 18W), my watch, and then one other device, which always ends up being either my headphones or USB battery pack, neither of which need to be charged every single night anyway.  The fact that I'll always need to charge 3-4 devices every night means that even if I wanted to be able to charge my laptop at max speed and therefore decided to bring a 130W charger for it, I'd still need to bring something to charge those other devices.  In that case it wouldn't really matter if the 130W charger was universal or not because I'd have the other multi-device charger anyway.

I realize that a universal high output charger is more useful than a non-universal high output charger, but if I already had a non-universal high output charger, I don't think it would significantly change my setup if it became universal.  Unless of course we could get a charger that provided 130W over USB-C with additional ports for other stuff, but now you're talking a total output of 180W or so, and that would become quite large.  Have you ever seen the size of the brick on Dell's 180W laptop charger, for example?

February 29th, 2020 12:00

yeah, its a shame that nobody has been thinking about this.
also dell did not officially tell people that this charger works without hassle for the latest xps series.

actually i have been thinking quite a while before buying it - my main point is that i want to travel light weight (at home i am using the 130W usbc and 2 normal 130W ac charges (so i can juice my xps in every room).

but if you travel you don't want to use many bricks and cables. one is enough and i can always use the usb ports from the laptop aswell to charge devices. also i am using the dell 65W usb-c powerbank (that supports more voltage levels and can quickcharge my phone).

also you find wallplugs like this on ebay:

foldable travel.jpg

also i think technology made a huge step last year with the gallium nitride (GaN) chargers. therefore it should be possible to create a 200W charger with more usb-c ports (similar to the power adapter plus line).

until then we have to stick with whats out there.

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14K Posts

February 29th, 2020 15:00

@real_telemarker  one brick is only enough for my travel needs if it has a lot of ports on it.  Yes you can charge other USB devices from your laptop, but you won't get fast charging for those devices that way either, so if that's how you plan to charge your other devices, then it wouldn't matter if the 130W charger was universal, because you'd still be stuck with whatever the laptop provided.  And if you had a universal 130W charger, then using fast charging would mean you'd only ever be charging one device at a time.  It's been a few years since I've been able to travel with the ability to only charge one device at a time, even if I'm NOT taking my laptop with me.

As for wall plugs, I travel with a Hug-a-Plug.  It takes a wall outlet and gives you two wall outlets rotated 90 degrees, which is very useful in three situations in particular.  The first is if you just need one more outlet (obviously).  The second is if the wall outlet has something like a piece of furniture in front of it and therefore you can't have a plug and cord sticking out forward, since the Hug-a-Plug means you'll now be plugging things in parallel to the wall rather than perpendicular to it.  And the third situation is if you need to plug two "wall wart" style chargers into the wall near each other.  In some cases, even if you have two outlets available, you can't always plug two wall warts in because one of them might block the other outlet.  With a Hug-a-Plug, you can always do that because the wall warts will now be parallel to the wall and facing each other, rather than plugged in vertically.

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