Dell Latitude E6400 - Overheating issues with minute tasks such as playing flash videos for extended periods?

I was the one that managed a downclocking (not the processors but something else e.g. the FSB) when copying a huge file archive from internal HDD to external E-Dock USB connected HDD. Fans started running high and after a while the system became unresponsive like when it was stressed with GPU tasks.

I agree - in the meantime I'm afraid it is a design issue and therefore DELL is not too eager to respond about it. It would be a mess with recalls, bad reputation etc. So I pray it's something BIOS related as we probably won't receive anything helpful otherwise.

Hello everyone, i made some lab tests, as i am now in a phase with support when I should prepare one computer for a send to my Local Dell subsidiary. At this moment i am able to replicate the problem really fast.

HW & Software Setup: Windows 7 RC 32bit, Dell E6400, P8400, 4GB, 500G Samsung Drive, Speedfan 4.39 Beta 7, WLAN Enabled

Speedfan installation nad config: To run Speedfan you have to right click it>properties and run it in windows xp sp3 compatibility mode (caused by W7), also in configure>options enable Dell support and restart the app. In Speedfan go to Charts and enable Temp4, Temp5, CPU, GPU

To cause stress: I've been using Google Earth, but any video app will do.

Monitoring: Resource Monitor from W7 (to run it just type in Resource Monitor in Vista or W7)

Window setup: Google Earth in the background rotating around the globe (actually moving!). On the left Resource Monitor and on the right Speedfan.

note: TEMP4 TEMPERATURE ALWAYS EQUALS TEMP5, SO I WILL WRITE DOWN ONLY TEMP4!

• AMBIENT TEMPERATURE: 26C (whitepaper allows conditions up to 35C!)
• IDLE: TEMP4=49C, CPU=48C, GPU=48C
• STRESS TEST: TEMPS RISING...
• THROTTLING SLOWDOWN DOWN TO 20% OF CPU ORIGINAL PERFORMANCE : TEMP4 HITS 55C! (GPU @ 56C, CPU @ 66C)
• COOL TEST: GOOGLE EARTH TURNED OFF, USING 18" FAN PROPELLER TO COOL IT DOWN A.S.A.P.
• THROTTLING DISABLED (CPU AT 100% PERFORMANCE): TEMP4 HITS 45C.

45-55C are the limit temperatures for the TEMP4/TEMP5 sensors. If Dell could possible rise this in bios it would work the situation out. The question is: HOW FAR COULD IT BE DONE WITHOUT RUINING THE SPECIFICATIONS OF THE SYSTEM?!

I will try to simulate the USB disk copy as JoeB7 suggested.

EDIT:

I tried to copy stuff to USB Drive, extensively using WLAN, copyiing DVD to HDD, but TEMP4/5 never moved a bit... The amount of data for graphics operations are significatinly higher than this... maybe an eSATA drive (don't have this right now) or a GLAN (have only 100MBit) would cause more stress on the bus.

NEXT POSSIBLE STEP:

Where's the TEMP4/5 sensor located...? Cool it down or BIOS/Firmware disable it. (That would be easiest..., rewrite the function call "WHATISTEMP" to return constant value...  =)

EDIT2:

During my recent test, the recovery temp may be 46C not 45C as mentioned earlier... the 55C trigger worked this time as well.

Great job fantomex. Actually the work that DELL (either support or product management) should do after receiving such a number of complaints with overheating systems. Thanks for that.

Did you test that all in E-Dock with external monitor or the internal one? That's the part of the setup description I was missing.I did also find out that the mass file copy action was heating the system up when connected to the E-Dock external USB socket, rather than directly.

Good luck with your efforts. Cudos to the one who manages that DELL will finally solve the issue with whatever update.Thanks a lot!

COMPANY USERS: Why not telling your procurement department to get in touch with the DELL account manager for your account? That might help to speed up the issue.

ANYONE: Somebody has contact to a serious tech magazine that tests laptops and can confirm?

I hate this in a way - but if it's the only way that someone at DELL starts acting...?

Thanks fantomex. That's interesting. For me it's quite hard to get the E6400 downclocking without / not connected to the E-Dock. When it's in the E-Dock it's quite faster. Anyhow - that underlines that there is a temp/bios/design problem when the device is overheating even without docking and larger resolution monitors.

Thanks once more. Looking forward to what your DELL dealer says. I wonder why no one from DELL even answers this thread as it must be on number one since a while. The only thing they did, they've deleted one posting from me two weeks ago. I don't like that. I usually really like DELL products and service...

i don't have e-dock - the internal monitor is used (1280x800x16M is used = theoreticaly one frame 3MB), i could test it with 1600x1200 (6MB/frame), but right now i am too lazy to disassemble my desktop setup.

i already made a backup of this thread, in case they would delete it silently... i used link to this thread in communication with local dell service as well... they should send us a free e6400 for all the hours we've spent with this. =)

Hello all,

I've successfully undervolted the P8600 processor which saves about 10-15°C temperature at no cost of performance, but even some longer battery life. And the positive side effect is, that even with Dual Monitor and StressTest of CPU and RAM no downclocking happened so far.

I've used this excellent tutorial with all necessary information.http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=235824

I won't harm any settings and it's only active as long as the RMClock tool is running. All changes can be returned to default easily.Hope you like it.

JB

EDIT: Okay, the downclocking still exists. It's a throttle on the processor, but something else (FSB?) is slowed down massively, still. Anyhow, the system stays cooler during daily work and with the lower voltage it lasts a bit longer. However, still we need a fix... Too bad.

Good point. I must admit, that I vacuumed the fan today with high-pressure vacuum cleaner and got 5-6C less on idle on TEMP4/TEMP5 sensors during the test... (This one is 6m old, used daily). During a stress test it reached 54C (1C from critical temp) in about a hour (but the ambient temp was 20C) and not in 5mins like before... This maybe together with undervolting and other similar countermeasures could make E6400 at least somewhat usable - but with extra hassle that no one expected from a $2000+ machine....

EDIT!!!

Seems like we have a partial solution: It's the RMClock itself. This tool looks like it has sufficient magical skills to override the BIOS throttling of the processor. I've been able to run 100% on Proc Cores with  Temp4/5 over 55C. I modified the RMClock High Performance mode to always use the highest possible value and when the proc was throttled down I managed to get it back to 100% just by activating the High Performance profile within the App...

Download here: http://redirectingat.com/?id=525X832&url=http%3A//cpu.rightmark.org/download/rmclock_235_bin.exe

What's still secret is the throttling of the FSB... i think the assumption about downclocking of FSB is right. The RMClock doesn't have any monitoring tools on this and althrough i was able to get cores back to 100% the FSB seems still as a bottleneck to me - graphical performance is really poor althrough the cores are at 100% when hot. The technology is called DFFS Dynamic FSB Frequency Switching.

After two weeks of testing A03 the problem reappeared. It is now clear, that A03 was not the only solution. I also vacuumed the fan. Yesterday, I vacuumed it again. It seems, that the fan is running on it's limits to cool down the system and each and every dirty on it has fatal consequences to the system.

This means, change fan in the system, to have reserve, change the "thermal tables", or ho do you call it. This are the options for DELL. I will upgrade to A14 again to see, if only vacuuming the fan will help or, somewhere between A03 and A14 there was a change in bios thermal tables. 

mk

Having had this problem on 2 seperate E6400 laptops we have found the root of the problem and the resolution! The root cause is dust in the Exhaust Fan -and unfortunately its not visible unless you open your laptop! After cleaning the fan exhaust both laptops worked flawlessly - again! 

How to clean the an E6400:

1. Shut down the laptop and remove the battery.
2. Remove the back plate and remove the fan:
    
3. Clean the dust using a can of pressurized air or a vacuum cleaner
4. Reassemble the computer

In our case the temperature of the CPU dropped 15°C and the GPU temp dropped 18°C.

Hello,

I agree that dust will lead to even more overheating issues.

However, I had two E6400: One brandnew unpacked from the box and the other one with a brandnew heatsink. It happens with both of them.

It's something related to the DIMMs/Northbridge (including GMA Intel GPU) as the processors stay most of the time in temp range from 30-55°C only.

Thanks for the info - hopefully your E6400 stays cool enough now.

Rgds,

JB

Joe, you are absolutely right, that it is not just the dust. My brand new machine was not able to stand the heat. DELL changed everything, now I have just to clean the dust. It means, bad design (too much dust in too short time), bad component (heat pipe) and the end the bios tables. Because even if you have clean fan and maybe not so good pipe, you should not get the slowdown, because the temperatures are still not critical.

mk

It's not dust.. I have absolutely nothing in my system and the fan decides to run on full blast after a short period, and continuing for sometimes much more than 30 minutes. I run Ubuntu 9.04 and another problem I noticed, is that the processors run only at 800 mhz; and sometimes when idling, but it hasn't happened recently, one core will always be at 100% and would switch with the other core, along with the fan running full blast. This can't be a software problem.

I have the exact same problem with my E6400. The problem came just a few days after I started using the laptop so it cannot be dust that causes this.

I have a full Business Service on the laptop and I talked with a technician at Dell today (Norway), who again talked with his superior about the problem. They hadnt heard of the problem but I mentioned this thread and then they decided to replace all hardware as a first step. They will come here to do that on Wednesday 30th so I will report back immediately afterwards and let all of you know if this works, although I dont think it will work (for a long time anyway).

/* Offtopic, but related to issues with E6400

The E6400-series has also got a problem with the sound (bass missing through jack-plug, only discant) which also might get solved when they replace the HW, although I only play music through USB headset and USB loudspeakers now, which works fine. And last there's a problem with the sound getting "mashed" when the CPU load is high. This is solved by unplugging the loudspeakers (USB) and connect them back. Again, this is also a problem I've only seen with the E6400, and I've used over 10 different Dell laptop-models.

End Offtopic */

mr dimsum,

until dell finds a cure, you have to cool the system down. Buy a cooling pad, UV the cpu and ask dell to change heater pipe and FAN (it's one piece).

mk