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Mike B1

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Mike B1

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September 26th, 2007 11:00

Grainy/sparkling LCD

There’s been a lot of talk around LCDs lately, specifically a phenomenon where the screen takes on a “grainy” or “glinting” appearance. This has been seen across all LCD panels including both notebook displays and desktop monitors and is not specific to any one brand of LCD or computer. Moreover, this is not a manufacturing defect; it is inherent to the way LCDs are designed.

If you know how LCDs are manufactured this phenomenon can be explained in the diffusion process. “Glossy” finished screens undergo a lower level of diffusion than the traditional “Anti Glare” or matte finish LCDs. The lower diffusion on glossy LCDs yields an increase in backlight luminance, which results in a brighter and sharper image without severely reducing battery life. The trade off is what appears to be a glinting or sparkling effect on the LCD, but results in a sharper and brighter image. 

For those who are less familiar with the LCD manufacturing process just think of two plain sheets of printer paper, one behind the other, being held up to the sun. (Don’t try this at home) You would see illumination through the papers, but not the direct sunlight. This is because the paper, like an Anti Glare LCD, is acting as a diffuser, scattering the light before it reaches your eye. Now, if you were to take a needle and poke a hole in one of the papers, stack them on top of each other and then hold them up to the light again, you would see a “glinting” effect where the hole was punched because there is one less layer of paper to diffuse the light. The glossy LCDs work in a similar way except it’s a much more intricate piece of paper, much smaller holes, and, unlike the sun, you won’t be blinded by the backlight.

Because this “glint” is inherent to the LCD design accurate methods for measuring it weren’t available until recently. Although not a defect, our customer feedback and concern around this phenomenon has led Dell to acquire a unique, first of its kind method for measuring the “glint” and is in the process of implementing it into our product design cycle. Once the testing is finalized we believe we will have accurate and reproducible specifications that we can implement in our products.

It is important to note that some customers will prefer different types of LCDs based on what the computer is used for. The glossy LCDs provide a brighter screen, higher contrast and a sharper image for watching video and DVD’s. The traditional Anti Glare LCDs are better suited for editing documents, web surfing, and overall normal computer use.

Mike



Message Edited by DELL-Michael B on 09-26-2007 07:36 AM
  • marco_78

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    Posted October 1st, 2007 18:00

    Sorry, but I think you're wrong. At least if we talk about the same topic (grainy screens). According to user reports in many forums almost every Dell Vostro, using a 15,4 1440x900 display from AUO, has issues with grainyness. Getting it replaced by a LG Philips displays usually solves the problems. People who have the LG Philips display never expierence these problems (as far as I know).
  • CoreyRegan

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    Posted October 1st, 2007 21:00

    The grainy screen problem is exactly what it sounds like, grainy or greasy screens. Here is an excellent post with many pictures depicting the issue: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=154196 It seems to be effecting 15" wxga+ monitors produced by SEC (Samsung) & AUO LCDs (according to the long thread here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=167789 and other sites easily accessible). The LG LCDs don't appear to be effected, as many customers have been demanding for them as replacements. Your post seems to apply to people who haven't previously owned an LCD with TrueLife technology.
  • n19htmare

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    Posted October 2nd, 2007 01:00

    Wow Michael, that's a lot of fancy talk but not ONE BIT of accurate information. So let me ask again. PLEASE explain to me why an AUO WXGA+ panel can have the grain and not an LG WXGA+. Both are the same resolution, same size, and both are GLOSSY. Facts are plain and simple. The grainy screen is a defect. How come the WXGA Glossy screen don't have this issue? They go through the same "process" don't they? Don't the LG's go through the same "process". It's one thing when every single glossy screen is the same.... then there are no abnormalities to set them apart from the "defects". But the fact is that there are Grainy screens which is NOT NORMAL regardless of what "excuse" you come up with. I think I speak for everyone out there when I say that give us an accurate response as to why you can have a Grainy AUO vs. a perfect non-grainy LG? If you can explain this phenomenon, we would all shut up and enjoy our laptops. Thank you, I eagerly wait your response.
  • Mike B1

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    Posted October 2nd, 2007 12:00

    I appreciate the feedback and comments, but this is fully accurate. EVERY LCD has this phenomenon to some degree, and yes, it is more apparent in some screens then others, but regardless of who made the screen or what type it is, the glint is there. You're arguing a point that no one is disagreeing with so let me reiterate the important part of my previous post to highlight what you may have missed. " our customer feedback and concern around this phenomenon has led Dell to acquire a unique, first of its kind method for measuring the “glint” and is in the process of implementing it into our product design cycle. Once the testing is finalized we believe we will have accurate and reproducible specifications that we can implement in our products." Dell has heard the feedback from our customers and we've acted on that feedback to try and keep this issue from popping up again. If you're unhappy with the screen contact support and see what can be done.
     
    As for explaining the phenomenon, I already have, in both technical and non technical terms. I posted an explanation of what you're seeing and why, not an "excuse."
     
    So, why can you have a "grainy" AUO vs. a "perfect" non-"grainy" LG... as I said before, " Because this “glint” is inherent to the LCD design accurate methods for measuring it weren't available until recently." With no accurate methods to measure this meant varying degrees of the glint/grain depending on the build. We're working to get this taken care of and I hope this helps give the explanation you were looking for.
     
    Mike
  • n19htmare

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    Posted October 2nd, 2007 14:00

    Accurate way of measuring the glint aka the graininess? I don't know but I used my eyes and it was VERY VERY apparent that the AUO panels had MUCH MUCH more glint then the LG. In other words, the LG did a much better job manufacturing the LCD then AUO. I noticed you said to some degree all LCDs have this, Which is true because some LCDs are more grainy then others and some might have this effect but appear to be fine. So at what point is it acceptable? I think if a naked eye can spot it, its not acceptable. I cannot spot any of the glint on my WXGA screen, im sure its there but i can't see it which to me and everyone else is fine. But, When it's apparent to the naked eye, that causes a problem.


    You very well know that Dell would not have taken any steps if it was a few cases but the issue is WELL SPREAD enough that you guys have to come up with a whole new way of measuring this phenomenon. This leads me to believe that there is a problem.

    All I'm trying to get out of Dell is for them to admit that yes, there is a problem with some Panels which may cause a grainy/greasy line coating on the LCD panel. But instead you guys are countering by lecturing us on the process of TrueLife and I see that as an excuse. If it was not a defect/problem, why would you be bending over backward to implement a method in your product design cycle to overcome this issue. Obviously even Dell sees it as a problem, it's not gonna kill you to admit it. After going through countless replacements/repairs i gave up and opted for a lower resolutions WXGA screen :(. It was the only safe bet I could make.

    Message Edited by n19htmare on 10-02-2007 11:02 AM
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    Posted October 6th, 2007 12:00

    Michael B, to settle this, please provide us with some sort of article or news source announcing the new process, and provide the source (with link)
  • n19htmare

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    Posted October 6th, 2007 21:00

    Michael B will avoid this thread at all cost now.

    Simply because he cannot explain why two of the same screens will have different "glint" properties.
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    Posted October 7th, 2007 00:00

    lol... i wish they would do a recall or something but that won't happen -- doesn't quailfy for recalling. apple got sued over grainy screens...
  • Mike B1

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    Posted October 8th, 2007 11:00

    N19htmare,
     
    My apologies for taking so long to reply, but this forum is not, and has not been, my primary role here at Dell. A new full time moderator has been added who will be here to assist you more often. To answer your question "why two of the same screens will have different "glint" properties" is an easy one, no manufactured LCD is identical. Although they may appear to be to the same to the naked eye, there are subtle differences that can make a difference in the look and feel of the finished product.
     
    Also, I don't really know how to take your comment "You very well know that Dell would not have taken any steps if it was a few cases but the issue is WELL SPREAD enough that you guys have to come up with a whole new way of measuring this phenomenon." Of course we'll take action when our customers have a complaint, what else would you expect? We're not saying that all of the systems we produce are perfect. I think you've taken this explanation of the "glint" and tried to apply it to every problem seen in an LCD. This topic is specifically about the glint/sparkle phenomenon, nothing more.
     
    lambchops468,
     
    The process is an industry first and still being finalized and implemented into our production cycle so unfortunately there is no where I can point you, link wise, right now. When more information becomes available and the process is finalized we will share more with you.  
     
    Mike
  • n19htmare

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    Posted October 8th, 2007 19:00

    Hello again Michael,

    I received my vostro 1400 today because I really wanted to give Dell another shot. But I am utterly disappointed. The screens Dell is using are UTTER GARBAGE! I am not just saying that but I have proof. I compared it to my HP dv2500t notebook that I got last week. I will post the links below.

    As you can see, the Dell screen lacks the definition and has practically no "white" properties what so ever. It is also grainy. I do not mean to embarrass Dell but this is beyond belief.

    http://n19htmare.com/DELLHP1.JPG
    http://n19htmare.com/DELLHP2.JPG
    http://n19htmare.com/DELLHP3.JPG
    http://n19htmare.com/DELLHP4.JPG

    Please take a look and pass them on to who ever that needs to see them. I'm sure you will be surprised at that LACK of quality that Dell is putting in their screens.

    Message Edited by n19htmare on 10-08-2007 11:57 PM