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4131

August 9th, 2013 15:00

Different RAID types (tdats) in same disk group ?

Hi,

can i create different raid-type tdats in same disk group?

right now we have a disk group with 200 FC 600GB disks. 35% of this disk group is Raid-5(3+1) configuration. can i create Raid-1 on remaining 65% of this disk group ?

Appreciate your help.

Thanks

San.

5 Posts

August 9th, 2013 17:00

Thanks for your reply. Recently we bought storage for some application and it was added to existing disk group and this application is more IO instance it need Raid-1 config.

drives # 128

Raid-1

tdats size : 67.10GB / 73291 cyl

8 hypers / disk

Total tdats: 8(hypers)*64(drives) = 512

I tried creating tdats but it gave me error, please find below.

C:\Program Files\EMC\SYMCLI\bin>symconfigure -sid ***5 -cmd "create dev count=512, size=73291, emulation=FBA, config=2-Way-Mir, attribute=DATADEV, disk_group=5;" preview

Execute a symconfigure operation for symmetrix '************' (y/ ) ? y

A Configuration Change operation is in progress. Please wait...

    Establishing a configuration change session...............Established.

    Processing symmetrix *****************

    Performing Access checks..................................Allowed.

    Checking Device Reservations..............................Allowed.

    Validating configuration changes..........................Failed.

    Definition 1 is in error:

    Could not find disks that satisfy our mirror/RAID policy

    Closing configuration change request......................Closed.

    Terminating the configuration change session..............Done.

The configuration change session has failed.


Appreciate your help.

1.3K Posts

August 9th, 2013 17:00

You can, but why would you?

Each pool should have 8 hypers per disk.  And your mirrored pool should have an even number of hypers

1.3K Posts

August 9th, 2013 21:00

There either isn't enough space, or the fault tolerance rules can't be maintained.

If you need RAID1 performance, you won't really get it from drives that also have RAID5 on them.  You would be better off just making the whole pool one RAID type, IMHO.

4 Operator

 • 

2.1K Posts

August 11th, 2013 19:00

symdisk -sid xxx list -disk_group


Try above command to see if there is enough space in you disk_group. The error should indicate no enough space in the disk group you specified.

5 Posts

August 11th, 2013 20:00

There is enough space in disk group

free space: 71460482 --> 68.15TB, Raid-1 gives 68.15/2=34.07TB.

I'm trying to make

tdats size : 67.10GB / 73291 cyl

8 hypers / disk.. total disks:128..raid-1 config.

Total size: 512*67.1=33.55TB

Appreciate your help.

859 Posts

August 11th, 2013 20:00

there could enough space in the disk group but you may not have empty space at the right place to satisfy the raid affinity...e.g., for raid 1 device of 67 GB you should 67 gb free on two disks and these disks should not be on same da, same port etc. check this primus (sorry i dont have the primus number handy)

Issue

Error msg: 0x400037b1: Out of the disks available at this point for volume xxxx, we could not find y disks that satisfy our mirror/Raid policy.
Error msg: We could not find x disks that satisfy our mirror/Raid policy. Out of the disks available at this point for volume yyyy.

Error msg:

EMC:SYMCONFIGURE cfgLogSymmwinError cfgSwSubmit call to silsw_DoSymmWinService for SWS_CONFIG_SUBMIT_CHANGE failed with code: SWRS_INVALID_SERVICE_DATA
EMC:SYMCONFIGURE cfgSwSubmit SID 000xxxxxxxxx: config server msg: 0x400037b1: Out of the disks available at this point for volume 12B5,
we could not find 8 disks that satisfy our mirror/Raid policy.
28 affinities are qualified to this volume:
28 affinities have no space;
2 disks left which can not find affinity.



Error msg:

EMC:SYMCONFIGURE cfgLogSymmwinError   cfgCongtrolSubmit call to silsw_DoSymmWinService for SWS_CONFIG_SUBMIT_CHANGE failed with code: SWRS_INVALID_SERVICE_DATA
EMC:SYMCONFIGURE cfgControlSubmit     Local config server msg:
0x400037b1: Out of the disks available at this point for volume 161D, we could not find 8 disks that satisfy our mirror/Raid policy.



Error msg (SymmWin):

Distribution failed:Out of the disks available at this point for volume 6C6,
we could not find y disks that satisfy our mirror/Raid policy.
32 affinities are qualified to this volume:
32 affinities have no space;



Unable to create logical volumes through Solutions Enabler.

Symconfigure preview command fails.

Environment

Product: Symmetrix VMAX Series
Product: Symmetrix DMX-4

Product: Symmetrix DMX-3

Product: Symmetrix DMX Series

SymmWin

Enginuity: 5875

Enginuity: 5874

Enginuity: 5773

Enginuity: 5772

Enginuity: 5771

Enginuity: 5671

EMC SW: EMC ControlCenter

EMC SW: Solutions Enabler (All Versions)

EMC SW: Solutions Enabler SYMCLI Array Controls

EMC SW: Solutions Enabler SYMCLI Configuration Manager

Cause

SymmWin is unable to build the upgrade bin file that will meet the submitted request.

  • The precise error message will differ, depending on the specific Enginuity family and Symmetrix model. However the problem is typically not related to the EMC Solutions Enabler, EMC ControlCenter, or Symmetrix Management Console (SMC) software products.
  • These errors are being reported by the SymmWin program running on the Symmetrix Service Processor.
  • In every case the request for additional logical volumes cannot be met by the SymmWin program and the SYMAPI is simply reporting the specific SymmWin error. What needs to be considered is why, for example, the create dev request is being rejected by SymmWin.

In detail:

  • The common cause of this failure is simply insufficient disk free space in the targeted physical disk_group (or insufficient overall disk space in the Symmetrix).
  • What is less well understood is that this available disk free space must be appropriately located on the Symmetrix back end for the create dev (new volume request) to be successful.
  • Another issue seen is that the output of the host Disk Group command showed a specific Disk Group as having plenty of free space but SymmWin was showing 0% free. A closer look into the host display and in SymmWin shows that the number of Hypers (Logical Volumes) was at the maximum 512 per physical disk. See the note at the bottom of the solution for the Disk Group output display.
  • SymmWin cannot create logical volumes (either through an EMC CE bin file request or through the SYMCLI), that break the Symmetrix internal rules on logical volume placement.
    • These Symmetrix rules are as follows:
      1. 1. SymmWin cannot create a logical volume that would compromise the fault tolerance of the Symmetrix.
      2. 2.
        • For example, SymmWin cannot create a 2-Way-Mir (mirror protected) logical volume from disk free space on the same drive loop (that is, using drives located behind the same DA processor slice).
        1. 3. SymmWin requires contiguous disk free space.
        2. 4.
          • Example: There is a pair of drives containing 2-Way-Mir protected volumes with 4 hypers of 20,000 cylinders each. The user wants to create a new 2-Way-Mir volume of 30,000 cylinders and online delete the first and third hypers to create 40,000 cylinders of disk free space. SymmWin cannot create the requested 30,000 cylinder 2-Way-Mir protected volume on this pair of drives because the available disk free space is not contiguous.
          • This requirement applies to all Enginuity releases.
        3. 5. SymmWin must obey physical affinities. This means that once a logical volume has been created, SymmWin must use the same physical disks when creating additional logical volumes that have the same device protection method.
        4. 6.
          • Example: If there is a drive A and drive B containing one 2-Way-Mirror protected volume, then subsequent mirror protected volumes must also use drives A and B. SymmWin will not place one mirror of a new logical volume on drive A and the other mirror on drive C.
          • Similarly for RAID protection, if the user creates one RAID-5 protected volume with RAID members on drives A, B, C, and D, then subsequent RAID-5 protected volumes must also reside on drives A, B, C, and D. SymmWin will not allow the creation of a new RAID-5 volume with RAID members located on drives A, B, C, and drive E.
          • In this case example, there is one RAID-5 protected volume located on drives A, B, C, and D. Then the user creates 2-Way-Mir protected volumes that fill the remaining disk free space on drives A and B. Mixed protection methods on the same physical disks is allowed by SymmWin. However, if the user now attempts to use the remaining disk free space on drives C and D for additional RAID-5 protected volumes, the SYMCLI request would fail. You cannot create additional RAID-5 volumes on drives C and D because there is no free space on drives A and B. This is regardless of the availability of sufficient disk free space elsewhere in the same physical disk group or elsewhere in the Symmetrix. SymmWin will not allow this because it would break the RAID affinity on drives A, B, C, and D defined by the first RAID-5 volume. The remaining disk free space on drives C and D could be used for 2-Way-Mir or Unprotected logical volumes.
          • SymmWin must obey existing mirror and RAID affinities. This is the mirror/RAID policy quoted in the error message.
          • The enforcing of the mirror and RAID affinity rules depends on the Enginuity family.
  • The potential complexity of the logical volume placement on the Symmetrix back end can make it very difficult, through SYMCLI commands, to determine why the volume request has failed.
  • The combination of different protection methods (2-Way-Mir, RAID-5 3+1, RAID-5 7+1, RAID-6 6+2, RAID-6 14+2, and Unprotected) across single or multiple physical disk groups, plus online logical volume deletion fragmenting the available disk free space, can also makes this determination very difficult for the EMC Support Center.
  • In every case the SymmWin program will attempt to meet the new volume request. If this request fails, refer to the workarounds suggested below.

Change

Online configuration change.
Online drive upgrade.

Online volume upgrade.

Resolution

Possible solutions:

  • Note: Confirm that the SYMAPI_TRACK_SIZE_32K_COMPATIBLE environment variable is correctly set. In Solutions Enabler (SE) 6.4 the default value is ENABLE while in later SE the default value is DISABLE. This means that the same create dev request issued at SE 6.5 or later will attempt to create logical volumes (on the Symmetrix) with twice the size as those created at SE 6.4 or earlier.
  • Confirm that there is sufficient overall disk free space to meet the device request.
  • If the option disk_group=nnn is being used confirm that there is sufficient disk free space in the targeted disk group. Refer to solution 48923.
  • Check that the free space appears appropriately located. Refer to solution 79827.
    • Specify a different physical disk_group.
    • Do not specify any physical disk_group to use any available disk free space.
  • Create fewer logical volumes (use symconfigure preview to test this option).
  • Create smaller logical volumes (use symconfigure preview to test this option).
  • Select a different device protection method. For example, use RAID-5 instead of 2-Way-Mir or 2-Way-Mir instead of RAID-5 (usesymconfigure preview to test this option).
  • Use Optimizer migration to create more contiguous disk free space.
  • Delete unwanted logical volumes to create more contiguous disk free space.
  • Delete unwanted logical volumes to remove existing mirror or RAID affinities.
  • If the above workarounds are unacceptable, then contact your local EMC Service Representative.
    • Your local EMC Customer Engineer (CE) will need to examine the current system bin file to determine how best to meet your requirements.
    • Examining the system bin file via the SymmWin GUI will quickly confirm if your device request can be met.
    • In some instances, the request can be successfully met. However, the bin file may need to be manually edited and applied by your EMC Customer Engineer using the Symmetrix Service Processor.
    • Your EMC Customer Engineer will be able to advise you if additional disk storage is required.

Notes

Below is the output from the Disk Group command. At the bottom is the number of Hypers (Logical Volumes) on the physical disk with 512 being the maximum allowed by the Symmetrix Enginuity

Symmetrix ID : 000xxxxxxxxx
Disks Selected : 8
Disk Group : 11
Disk Group Name : DISK_GROUP_011
Technology : SATA
Speed (RPM) : 7200

Director : DF-5A
  Interface : D
Target ID : D
Disk Group Number          : 11
Disk Group Name            : DISK_GROUP_011
  Technology : SATA
Speed (RPM) : 7200

  Vendor ID : SATAHGST
Product ID : 722020APCLAR2000
Product Revision           : N02THJK
Serial ID : B9HJ2TNF  

  Disk Blocks : -617763375
Block Size : 520
Actual Disk Blocks         : -617763375
Total Disk Capacity (MB)   : 1823565
Free Disk Capacity (MB)    : 349290
Actual Disk Capacity (MB)  : 1823565
Hypers : 512

Example of a Create Volume Request:

In this example the customer was creating one volume, 12657 cylinders (decimal), FBA, Mirrored, 7 Member Meta.

  • create dev count=1, size=12657, emulation=FBA, config=2-Way-Mir, data_member_count=7

In the silconfig.log for the above customer request it will show up as the following:

  • Add_vols (E,FBA,3171,SERVER,2MIR,0,0)

regards,

Saurabh

5 Posts

August 12th, 2013 07:00

Thanks for the primus. I tried previewing by using 7 hypers/disk and it succeeded. Is it a best practice to use 7 hypers / disk? and I'll also wasting 3TB of space if i use 7 hypers.

What is your recommendation in creating tdats (size and number of hypers/disk)?

Appreciate your help.

1.3K Posts

August 12th, 2013 07:00

You should try to shoot for 8 hypers per pool per disk.

However with RAID1, it is more important that the number per disk is EVEN.

It is important that each disk in the pool have the same number of TDATs, and they are roughly all the same size.

I would ask your local TA/SE/CE/FSS about your configuration.  You could probably get their advise on how you should create these and any issues you might be having because of gaps.

5 Posts

August 12th, 2013 07:00

Thank you very much Quincy56 and very one. I'll try to reach out to our SE.

Thanks once again.

3 Apprentice

 • 

423 Posts

August 12th, 2013 07:00

sanshwe, have a look at emc180481, basically you need to have gaps in all the right places with enough space in each for the config change that you have defined,  In addition there are a few extra tracks overhead for TDAT (similar to SAVE Devices) I described in this solution.

There is nothing to stop you from doing this type of config but just because you can doesn't mean you should as Quincy has already pointed out.

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