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XPS 8940, intermittent freeze, possible solution
XPS 8940
Hi all,
Like many other owners of an XPS 8940/50 with an NVidia RTX (3060Ti), I’ve been having problems with the machine randomly freezing every 2-5 days for many many months. I have to hold down the power button to reset and on the rare occasions where I’ve had a mini dmp, the error is always VIDEO_TDR_TIMEOUT. If I disable the nvidia and run purely (multi mon) on the Intel mobo gfx, there is no lockup. Using Bios 2.8 and obviously latest drivers and Win 11 updates.
Dell support have been responsive, but for those of us who’ve been in IT (dev) for several decades, it can be a painful process. I’ve had replacement (refurb yuck) mobo and gfx card to no avail and the only other step to take which I’ve resisted as it didn’t seem to have worked for anyone was Win 11 reinstallation (which would be win 10 then upgrade again).
As a desperate last hope, I determined to clear out as many warnings / errors from EventViewer as possible. This was when I found that if I actually do a Shutdown as opposed to a Restart, I ended up with EventID 14 from source nvlddmkm. Watching the startup I could see a screen flicker when this happened and caused the nvidia to instigate a recovery. This is essentially the same timeout issue which appears to precede the hang, so resolving this seemed likely to be important.
Following this rabbit hole led to an interesting point that stated this could mean there was some sort of device contention problem. Turning off the onboard Intel gfx in the bios however (not recommended) didn’t help with getting rid of the event error however. I pondered the fact that this was only happening after a full Shutdown and (perhaps incorrectly!) wondered if it could be related to something I’d seen in passing on one of the many web sites I’d been digging through - Windows Fast Startup.
Once I finally found the option to disable this (see below) and did my 400th shutdown and start for the day (aaaaargh) I was blessed with a clean bill of health from EventViewer! Something within the Fast Startup mechanism was causing it - perhaps someone with more energy left can figure out the details for interest:)
So having resolved this, the machine has now been up for 6 days and counting, which is longer than any previous good spell. I’m hesitant to say the war is won, but it just might be and perhaps it’s worth letting the rest of you poor forlorn ‘freezers’ give it a go
Hope this helps - let me know how you get on, instructions below.
(@Dell - if this is the fix, do I get a reward?, I think I’ve just saved you over $100k 🥳 hehe)
- Press Win + R to open Run.
- Type control and click OK to open the Control Panel.
- Go to System and Security and then click on Power Options.
- In the left pane, click on Choose what the power buttons do.
- Next, click the Change settings that are currently unavailable link.
- Under the Shutdown settings section, uncheck the Turn on fast startup option to turn it off.
- Click Save changes to apply the changes.
Jurn
6 Posts
0
January 14th, 2023 08:00
Hello All!
Has anyone identified any patterning across affected machines in terms of timing and frequencies of freeze-ups? Or is it completely random?
For reference, here are my last 5 freezes (with current GeForce driver)
01-14-23 9:41am CST (528.02 studio)
01-14-23 12:07am CST (528.02 studio)
01-05-23 2:55pm CST (527.56 studio)
12-31-22 2:26pm CST (527.56 studio)
12-28-22 8:40am CST (527.56 studio)
Thx,
Jurn
ispalten
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January 14th, 2023 11:00
@Jurn
Absolutely RANDOM.
No warning, happens with the PC idle, sleeping, running applications, clicking to open or close and application, even just moving the mouse.
Time between lock ups (freeze) is random as well. Happens on all BIOS Versions V2.4.0 and later.
Never find ANY direct info in the Event Viewer either (that is timestamped at the tile of the lock up). Never see an error dialog box or even a warning of something going wrong.
Nvidia driver version doesn't matter, happens on all of them.
Look at my Reliability Viewer:
All the RED line markings are the lock ups (Error 41 on Reboot due to powering off).
Only the top line is annoying to me. Most are Killer Control Center stopping, never figured out why and it does not stop the wireless from working...
The 1/5/23 one is interesting it that the RED x that is a Windows Failure IS in fact the fail when I installed the latest Nvidia driver... something new that started to happen the last 2 Nvidia Updates. Could not close the driver update window that showed complete. Could move my mouse around but could not do anything. The error IS a Windows Hardware Error with no real info (probably was, but I was too lazy to untangle the thread of information to find it, suspect the video card itself).
Jurn
6 Posts
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January 14th, 2023 12:00
i'm wondering if we notice overlap between different machines (time/date of freeze) if that could help pinpoint some underlying event. I realize i'm grasping for straws at this point but, for instance, @ispalten we both have a freeze-ups on 12-31 and on 01-05. I also installed a new GeForce driver on 01-05, but after i froze (while still on 527.56)...and post 528.02 driver install, i enjoyed a decent stretch (8+ days) with no freeze.
anyway, likely unhelpful, but food for thought.
JURN
ispalten
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January 14th, 2023 16:00
@Jurn
"we both have a freeze-ups on 12-31 and on 01-05"
Well, I wouldn't put too much on that unless it was the SAME time?
My 1/05 happened @1/5/2023 5:03:38 PM EST, not even close in time to yours.
Also, that would mean an External cause, and a lot more people would also have (and again, why only Nvidia) it?
Hank B
7 Posts
0
January 31st, 2023 04:00
I posted here on 14-Nov-2022. Soon after that I connected my 1978 Pioneer PL-512 turntable via an ART USB Phono Plus. I was immediately unhappy with the sound quality so I uninstalled the Waves MaxxAudio Pro app and installed other HD audio drivers. I have not had a lockup/freeze since (it's been about 6 weeks now -- I'm running 2.10). Has anyone else removed the Waves MaxxAudio Pro app and experienced similar results?
Jurn
6 Posts
0
January 31st, 2023 17:00
I seem to remember a potential solution that was posted somewhere along these lines.
So...what audio drivers have you been running for past 6 weeks? NVIDIA HD? Realtek? Others?
ispalten
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February 1st, 2023 02:00
I do not recall seeing something exactly like this?
However, the Linux user is also locking up, and doesn't have the same Audio drivers that Windows does.
Since that user on Linux is not using MaxxAudioo, it would seem that isn't 'it'?
Hank B
7 Posts
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February 2nd, 2023 05:00
Jurn,
I'm presently running Realtek audio drivers and much happier.
Irv,
I agree. Based on the Linux user experience, MaxxAudio must not be a contributor to the problem.
Jurn
6 Posts
0
February 2nd, 2023 07:00
Hi Hank,
Since your last freeze up (6 weeks ago) you have not been running NVIDIA audio drivers listed in device manager under {Sound, Video and Game controllers}?
My device manager lists:
1. NVIDIA High Definition Audio
2. NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible)(WDM)
6 weeks without a freeze deserves some investigation...
Hank B
7 Posts
0
March 28th, 2023 07:00
Hi Jurn,
Regarding your post of 02-02-2023, I am deeply sorry for the slow response. I have been busy with other stuff in life.
To answer your question, yes, you are correct. I have NOT been running NVIDIA audio drivers. I have disabled the two you listed in Device Manager.
As of today (28-Mar-2023), I am still without a freeze.
wcypierre
19 Posts
0
April 7th, 2023 18:00
how was it since then?
Hank B
7 Posts
0
May 1st, 2023 05:00
Another month without a problem. However, I have made yet another change that may or may not have had an impact. I pulled the 2 sticks of Dell memory (2x16) and installed 2 sticks of Non-Dell memory (2x32). I immediately noticed my new 3200MHz memory was throttled-back to 2133MHz. After much searching it became clear there is no resolution for this (the geniuses at Dell behind it all). The anxiety continues . . .
ispalten
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May 1st, 2023 07:00
@Hank B
Your Memory speed could be you bought the wrong Memory.
Even Crucial will show 2 different speeds for an XPS8940. DDR4-3200 and DDR4-2666. Amazon sells those as well as DDR4-2133 (non-Crucial vendors) RAM. Suspect you got 2 of those RAM sticks.
However, you might never know the difference, depending on what you do, between all those 3 speeds. Well, not really true if you are a gamer as it can increase Frame Rate.
Other possibility though it the RAM sticks themselves. So require XMP to operate at full speed. See this page, https://www.dell.com/community/XPS-Desktops/XPS-8940-retail-Corsair-3200MHz-ram-no-XMP-2133MHz/td-p/8067501 , which appears to be similar that you are seeing?
Not sure what you bought at you didn't specify, but how did you check the speed?
Task Manager can show it on the Performance page for Memory:
Or CPU-Z:
RAM is DUAL rank so you multiply the speed by 2.
As for Lock-ups, well, they appear to be 'gone', I can't pin it on anything either... many BIOS Updates, MS Windows Updates, and even Nvidia Driver updates.
Still, I have had some lock ups, but under very specific occurrences. The ones I can 'pin it on' is due to Nvidia's GeForce updating the Game Ready Driver. I've had some odd ones with it (not every time) too? Only the mouse movement works but the buttons or Keyboard do not, or I can't close the Driver Install when it completed. I've had at least 3 of these, but only one with only the mouse oddity. Never though when I get the driver from the Nvidia site and install it myself. I'd attribute that to GeForce more than a card induced lock up. I've been like this for well over month, maybe 2 or even 3 with these problems only.
I wish someone had owned up to 'fixing' the lock ups so we'd know for sure the problem was solved and maybe even what the cause was?
Hank B
7 Posts
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May 2nd, 2023 05:00
Good morning Irv.
I would like to believe I purchased the correct memory sticks. It goes without saying, based on the title of this string, that I am talking about my Dell XPS 8940. It came with an Intel i7-11700 processor which should be good up to 2933MHz (which is what I expected to see under Task Manager). I purchased (looking at the box as I type this) and installed Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2x32GB 3200MHz.
Thank you for the link to the Corsair conversation. I read it and it appears to be an exact match with my situation. There are certainly a bunch of angry contributors to that conversation (some have even been removed by the moderator). I am not that angry but I will never purchase another Dell product and I will advise all of my family and friends of my experience.
Thanks again for the help. Hope you have a great day.
Bill.
ispalten
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May 2nd, 2023 07:00
Good morning Bill,
I have the SAME exact XPS, 8940, i7-11700 too. As I showed you I am running 2x16GB Crucial RAM sticks @ 2933Mhz.
However, I did know where to get the memory and what I needed. I also know Dell XPS's do NOT support XMP. One of the main reasons I use Crucial to upgrade my PC's as they can run a program and suggest purchases. Still, they will suggest some that although they will work, will work at a slower speed. Knowledge is the key here, when ever buying memory... be it form factor, size or single or dual rank.
As for your purchase, you had the data to make the right decision here, https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK64GX4M2E3200C16 and you might have seen this:
First of all, to me, this is not one that would work for me as I know XMP is not a BIOS setting. Another 'red flag' would be in the Tech Spec's, https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK64GX4M2E3200C16#tab-tech-specs and from it:
Since XPS's (I think some Alienware does?) do NOT support XMP, and therefore the XPS would use the SPD settings as that is all that the XPS can read in the RAM. Also note Compatibility CPU's, only Intel a Chipset, not a CPU, and that Chipset supports:
=========
Support for 9th and 8th Generation Intel® Core™ i9 processors/Intel® Core™ i7 processors/Intel® Core™ i5 processors/Intel® Core™ i3 processors/Intel® Pentium® processors/Intel® Celeron® processors in the LGA1151 package.
==========
Even then, the BIOS has to be able to READ XMP (and enable it). So basically, that RAM you purchased will not operate @ 2933Mhz unless you had those CPU's and enabled BIOS setting.
I've got no 'skin in this', but I do not think this is Dell's fault or problem. I'd see if the RAM can be returned and then use Crucial RAM (same is also available on Amazon). This IS the Crucial Link for the one I bought, https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/ct2k16g4dfra32a and note that even on that page, you can enter DELL, XPS, and 8940, and it will check to see if it is valid for your XPS (it is). Cheaper too then when I got it by the way. Amazon has it for $10 more with free shipping it seems.
I'm just trying to set the record straight, this is not a Dell problem (and for gaming, XMP I recall is where it really makes a difference.
Another link for you to read, https://www.cgdirector.com/ram-not-running-at-full-speed/ and it does a better job of understanding why some 'numbers' on speed happen and/or do not match what you expect. However, 2133Mhz is the correct speed for the RAM modules you purchased for the XPS.