mesiah1989

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October 18th, 2020 04:00

Optiplex 7020 SFF GPU upgrade problem.

Hello. I couldn't find the exact answer to my question by browsing the forum. I purchased an RX550 low profile card for my 7020 SFF with a 255w power supply. The image is displayed both in BIOS and in the desktop. The problem begins with the installation of the gpu drivers. The monitor turns off and on showing the no signal message, and the card fans start spinning a little faster. My computer seems to be working normally at this point. There is no restart, only no image. This is true for both pcie x4 and x16 connectors. The card was tested in another computer and it works fine (HP SFF 240w power supply). The monitor is also fully functional. The card has a TDP 50w and according to the posts on this forum, that's too much for this version of Optiplex. There are movies on the network with gtx 1050ti and gtx 1650 on these computers, but it seems suspicious to me. To the point. I bought a 24pin to 8pin adapter and plan to order a more powerful Fortron 350-400w power supply. The cables will be extended and the power supply will go outside the housing. The question is as follows. Will replacing the power supply with a larger one 100% solve my problems? Does the bios or motherboard have any power limit for pcie x16? Everything crashes into the power supply itself and the lack of power? Theoretically, my configuration cannot exceed 150w of consumption and the power supply is factory-set to 255, so there is a reserve. Ultimately, I plan to assemble the GTX 1650. I will be grateful for any suggestions.

  • speedstep

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    Posted October 19th, 2020 08:00

    MSI RADEON RX550 4GT LP OC PCIE 4GBCTLRGDDR (R5504TPC)

    is the only model that might fit into SFF

    However being a 75W card means the power supply is too small.

    That's per Dell's specifications on 40W card max.  Secure boot must be off for RX550 not from dell but CSM legacy mode must also be OFF because Legacy roms are not supported on RX series only GPT UEFI.

    Suggested PSU 350 W Bare minimum.  Dell uses 365W for 75W up to 120W card.
    https://topics-cdn.dell.com/pdf/optiplex-7020-desktop_owners-manual2_en-us.pdf
    The other issue is the Slot color.  Black Slot is wired X4 and only supports 25W card. The 3rd issue is that the power supply is totally proprietary having 8 pin instead of 24 pin EPS12v connection.
    There is a guy who made his own conversion.
    https://raphtec.wordpress.com/projects/dell-poweredge-t20-atx-power-supply-adapter/
    Or you could use Moddiy CAB359
    https://www.moddiy.com/products/Dell-Inspiron-3650-PSU-Main-Power-24-Pin-to-8-Pin-Adapter-Cable-30cm.html

    https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/product/optiplex-7020-desktop/docs

     

  • speedstep

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    Posted October 19th, 2020 09:00

    X1 slot is 10W max  BLACK SLOT

    X4 slot is 25W max  BLACK SLOT

    X16 slot is 75W max BLUE SLOT

    when 5.5 amps is free for the 12v rail and 3 amps is free for the 3.3v rail.

    150W to 300W card needs 18 amps from 12v rail for each 8 pin Aux power connector. This is not disagreement its fact based on the PCI SIG. CEM, and UL 94v power safety  specifications.  Materials suitable under the CEM-1 specification in classification of NEMA – the most widespread materials for production of 1-layers printed-circuit boards. Standard CEM-1 material is composite material on a cellulose basis with one layer of glass fibre laminate (FR-4) on a surface. Usually CEM-1 has milky-white color but can be other colors based on the solder mask aka green, red, blue.  My advice is given on the basis of engineering and safety specifications.  Advising that under powered power supply is fine based on Youtube is very bad advice. The UL 94V-0 was the best flammability rating that given to materials that tolerated vertical burning. As by the standards, 94V-0 circuit boards are PCBs that could stop burning within 10 seconds after being subjected to vertical combustion. Electrical fires are common when power supplies and connectors are subjected to overheating due to beyond safe maximum power draw.

    https://pcisig.com/sites/default/files/files/PCIe_CEM_4_0_Previews.pdf

     

    75W 6 pin  150W 8 pin + 75W max slot75W 6 pin 150W 8 pin + 75W max slot

     

    SLOT POWERSLOT POWER

     

  • speedstep

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    Posted October 19th, 2020 12:00

    You can use power supply OUTSIDE the case like a 3650 with moddiy CAB359 DOES.  Secure boot must be OFF for non dell cards and CSM must be OFF for ATI UEFI RX series cards.  The power supply DOES NOT HAVE power connectors for the hard drives etc. EVERYTHING that uses power goes THRU the motherboard in proprietary non standard fashion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQTj1ei3Ew

    https://www.moddiy.com/products/Dell-OptiPlex-7020-PSU-Main-Power-24-Pin-to-8-Pin-Adapter-Cable-30cm.html

     

    That falls into the "its ugly but it works" category.

    The 24 to 8 pin adapter is NOT optional to use regular power supply.

    You remove the internal unit and run the wires into the square hole left behind.

  • bradthetechnut

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    Posted October 19th, 2020 18:00

    1.  "150W to 300W card needs 18 amps from 12v rail for each 8 pin Aux power connector. This is not disagreement its fact based on the PCI SIG. CEM,..."

    2.  "Advising that under powered power supply is fine based on Youtube is very bad advice..."

    3.  "X16 slot is 75W max BLUE SLOT"

    1.  There was disagreement there?  You're right, no disagreement there.

    2.  The advice I give is not bad advice and many YouTubers, that you refuse to believe, have proven that.  It shouldn't be anyone's problem if one refuses to believe factual videos.  Dell also uses YouTube.  Belittling and discounting YouTube videos hasn't changed them or my position.  Some political ads might be full of it though.

    3.  Still agreed.

    In case you haven't noticed speedstep, we're both able to cite specifications, just you more than me.  And in case you haven't noticed, users have done things that work that don't fit some specifications.  Quite notably with SOME of the older Dell's (with older printed specs) can take SOME RAM and CPU's not listed in specs.

    And certain older Dell's with 240w-290w can take 75w GPU cards.  Again, I have yet to have feedback from actual users saying otherwise, like it or not, accept it or not.

    So speedstep, what's stopping you from making YouTube videos in regards?

  • bradthetechnut

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    Posted October 18th, 2020 18:00

    Some of this question you posted in another thread.

    It has been long established on YouTube that 240w-290w PSU's will power 75w cards.  Speedstep will disagree.  But, I have never received any negative feedback from actual users that it didn't work.

    Optiplex 7020 SFF + GTX 1650 + YouTube 

    If speedstep tried 75w cards on 240w-290w Dell PSU's, and it didn't work, and he posted videos, it would be more convincing.

    Continuing with your questions:

    1.  I don't know that a Fortron PSU will do you any good.  First, you said in your other post that the RX550 works fine without the drivers.  Something I've heard of is Secure Boot may need to be off.

    1.5  Better is a 315w PSU that's normally for an Optiplex XE2 SFF.  Often a PSU can boast more total wattage, but skimp on other rails, like the 3.3v/5v rails and then it doesn't work.  Do you have a link to the PSU you're looking at?

    2.  You can use up to 75w cards in the PCI-e slot.  (Speedstep will probably disagree here too.)  Limit I believe is by MB.  With 315w PSU, I'm not sure what the limit is.  Apparently, it does have a 6-pin PCIe connector.  120w? - speedstep would know for sure.  However, cards beyond 75w may be too much for your CPU, and then the CPU causes bottleneck.  Helps to know what CPU you have to see how it would pair with the GTX 1650 you're looking at.

    "Theoretically, my configuration cannot exceed 150w of consumption and the power supply is factory-set to 255, so there is a reserve." - Unfortunately, this is completely wrong.  MB, CPU, and other accessories aren't taken into account here, including power to USB's.  Speedstep often points out PSU's aren't about a single spec of watts.  Not taken into the theoretical account is the MB, CPU, power to USB's, and any other accessories.  You still have to have enough power on other rails besides 12v one, like the 3.3v and 5v rails just to name two.  You try to draw more than 75w for a GPU on a 255 watt PSU and the PSU will absolutely trip.  A good PSU will shut down when overloaded or shorted.  A cheapy or non-name brand PSU might not trip and things fry.

  • 4857

    0

    Posted October 19th, 2020 08:00

    Thank you for the comprehensive answer. I appreciate. The power supply has not yet been selected. I can buy any. It's just that Fortron is a good company and I'm sure the 400w one will handle the headroom with my setup (on all lines it will be much more powerful than the stock 255w). I just don't know if I'm spending my money for nothing. Nowhere is it clear what exactly limits the pci-e for the 7020 SFF. I do not know if it is the power supply itself or the motherboard and there is no way around it. The videos from YT clearly say that the GTX 1050ti and 1650 cards work without any problems, even on the pcie x4 (25w) connector. Unless the Optiplex 7010 SFF and 9020 SFF are different from the 7020 SFF because they were related to the movies. At the moment, I have 16gb of memory on board and an i5 4590. If necessary, I have the option to change to the i7 4770 with a small surcharge. A bottleneck is not a problem. RX550 works but only in bios and in the desktop but before installing the drivers. After installing them, I have a black screen. I have tried different systems and different driver versions. As I have already mentioned, the card works stably on HP (q9550 + 8gb ram) with 240w which surprised me a lot. I don't know why this 7020 is so problematic. I would change the SFF version to MT but I care about a small housing. Even if I were to lead the power supply outside it.

    Secure boot is disabled by default and I haven't changed that.

  • 4819

    0

    Posted October 19th, 2020 13:00

    Thank you for your response. It is a pity that I have already sent my RX550 back to the store. I think I had wrong options in my bios. Looks like I had CSM turned on. I upload photos with settings. My GPU version is exactly MSI RX5502GTLPOC (low profile). As for power. I already bought a 24pin to 8pin adapter a week ago. He is lying and waiting for the power supply. I want to extend the cables and hide the power supply behind my desk. It will look like a factory kit. The only question is whether the 7020 SFF will definitely work with the GTX1650 with a more powerful power supply.

    121990745_2815177282102811_9161267648592666763_n.jpg121981028_384498809351597_3733645678167541604_n.jpg122081495_3427360374027459_283616871114431918_n.jpg

  • bradthetechnut

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    Posted October 19th, 2020 18:00

    Hi @mesiah1989,

    "The only question is whether the 7020 SFF will definitely work with the GTX1650 with a more powerful power supply."

    So I already linked a video showing it working and could link more.  It'll please speedstep and make him smile, if you use 315w PSU for Optiplex XE2 SFF.  You won't, and don't, have to worry about not being able to power 75w GPU card.

  • bradthetechnut

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    Posted October 19th, 2020 18:00

    So I did some bottleneck checking with the I5-4590, I7-4770, and a couple of GPU cards:

    Capture+_2020-10-19-20-49-22.png

    Capture+_2020-10-19-20-50-20.png

    Capture+_2020-10-19-20-51-31.png

     

  • 956

    1

    Posted October 21st, 2020 13:00

    Today I received MSI GTX 1650. Everything works perfectly despite plugging the card into the pcie x4 connector. The factory power supply works well and does not cause any reboots or instability. However, I will not tempt fate and I will order the 315w one. I am tempted to leave the card in the x4 connector and not combine with the power supply outside the housing. The performance is very satisfactory (tests show that the difference from x16 is usually 3-4fps) and the temperatures do not exceed 72c. It's a pity that Dell changed the order of the connectors and gave x4 at the top, but nothing can be done about it. Anyway, I confirm that the 1650 is fully stable in the Optiplex 7020 SFF, but I recommend replacing the power supply with the 315w version. Thanks to everyone for the tips. I hope this topic will be helpful to other forum users.