The 8600 and 8500 are Dells top of the line performance notebooks made for the Gamer in mind.  They even advertise it as this.  So the Mom and Pop and Bussiness like people your referring to would not be wise in purchasing one of these.  They would be better off with a M600 or I5100.  So yes DELL should provide upgrades to there top of the line notebooks.  If Dell offered upgrades people would not have to overclock there graphics and proccessors to get the performance they seek.  I've got a I5100 and we found a way to get the M9000 cards to work with it but of course Dell does not support this.  Its a shame.

 

Actually it is stastically proven that 50% of problems you will have with a computer are within the FIRST year and 50% are after the first year.  I have read this in several computer magazines and think I also saw it on TechTV.

As for the video card upgrades in notebooks, I think that Dell should support it, as I voiced my opinion in the petition.

However, the only reason I think we have been lucky thus far being able to upgrade the video card because they are seperate, is because it makes it easier for Dell to just replace the video card if there is a problem with it, rather than replacing the whole motherboard.  I'm sure this is the only reason they did this, not to make it possible for people to upgrade the video cards, although this may have come to mind with some of the engineers.

as long as your don't mess up your computer while installing a new card the warentee is not void.

and no dell should not support user upgrading becuase of liability issues to do people who have no idea what they are doing mucking about in their notebooks.

Yes 50% of all problems hapen after the first year.....DUH! How long after is the question. The weak components in electronics usually show up soon after purchase. A year is a luxury warranty! MOST TV's Computers, Washers, Dryers, even autos do not require warranty service before THREE years. Thats also a statistically proven fact by those who are in the business of selling warranties. They make a ton on extended warranties.
I bought a $14 optical mouse last week at Best buy and was offered a "replacement warranty" for just another $7.99. Its outta control boys and girls. Most of us in our fourties remember when there were NO such thing as extended warrantys, on products that were not made as well as todays including cars! We bought TVs and more and discovered we would have rarely used them! Yes even on notebook computers which are far less complicated than a car.

Now when you buy a car with the THOUSANDS of electrical and mechanical parts including CD drives and LCD's and CPUs that operate in all kinds of heat, weather, and road conditions you are charged 5% over the cost of the car for an extended warranty that covers 2-3 years PAST the Manufacturer's warranty. They make money on that deal as well. Now you buy a %2500 notebook which is coddled, yes bumped around occasionally, but nevertheless mostly in a nice cushioned case resting on the soft seat of a car and most of the time its used, sits flat on a non moving surface...YET they charge 20-30% over the cost of the product. TV's as well.

I remember the salesman making his best attempt to scare me into buying an extended warranty for 30% more on my 60" TV "You know how much ONE COLOR GUN COSTS?" The TV is now 6 years old and still doing well...as most do! I saved a lot! Multiply that times 4 cars 6 TV's washers dryers, Surround Sound equipt. 3 notebooks and 7 desktops etc... over 20 or so years. In not one case would I have used the warranty before the item finally died.. Even if I had issues a few of the items. The savings are still huge. And guess what..I still had the infamous "peace of Mind and slept every night well! We as a society are SCARED into spending hard earned dollars. Look around at items we don't need and how advertising is based on FEAR! You need a certain $1800 vacuum cleaner because there are "spores' in the air that will kill you. A certain air filter for the same reason......the list goes on my friends. They can scare the young into buying anything!!Everthing is going to kill us or make us poor so we have to spend MORE to prevent that???? Funny stuff!

So Dell sells these warranties to those who want to mess with their specs...Well I can not blame them for not wanting to send GPUS out there after reading the forums and the anxiety about getting certain 3D Mark scores and FPS. I see nowhere in Dells advertising that claims the 8600 was especially made for gamers. They said you can game on the machine...Of course. I have a 1.4 WXGS refub with a Go5200 64mb card and run many DX 9 games well! So they are correct. They have lived by their advertising. They do not claim you will get 10000 Marks scores or 200 FPS. Buy a Sager or Alienware..they truky market to the FPS chasers and ALLOW upgrades.

YEs most Mom and Pop and business don't need 1.7 mhz o 3.2 mhz machines but they want the best because they have been told they NEED it!. Just like we are told we NEED to "protect" ourselves from a major expense that MAY happen.....oh and for 30% more!! I don't think Toyota would honor their warranty if one put a turbo in the car. Why should Dell act any different? It's not Dells fault you bought a machine that was great three years ago! You LOVED it three years ago. I know it's frustrating that all the other items in the machine are still valid...but you could have bought a lesser machine and saved half of what you spent and with the other half bought another lappy today with the goodies. It still would have run all the apps you ran three years ago!

And it is still good today...But it's a notebook and not a desktop, We all knew that going in. But many want "desktops in a bag"
and the sellers are doing their best to accomodate that difficult and kinda rediculous need.

Its a NOTEBOOK. They are disposable. Thats why I buy refurbs every two years. I will get a better refurb for $1300 than most of today's loaded 8600's will be then. And still have not spent near $3000....And it runs many games well enough, and edits video and does all the things a loaded 8600 will do except get great 3D mark scores and run over 40 FPS..But it's good enough for $1300 and a couple years of use.

8600 1.4
15.4 WXGA
512 333mhz ram
40 GB (5200 rpm)
NVidia 5200Go 64mb
DVD/CDRW
INtel wireless
Win XP Home
1 year mail in.
$1268 (refurb)

3D mark 2002 .000052 At avg 1 FPS
1.4

Tombo77,

I agree with almost everything you are saying except for the point of the laptop being disposable. The laptop is disposable because of how it is made, not because it couldn't be made to be more flexiable. Everything you are stating sounds like it is from the consumer standpoint. I have been heavily involved as a sales associate for one of the major computer companies and simply put they are looking forward to computer machines getting smaller as well. The simple truth is with time all of our computer devices are getting smaller. As it stands now almost all of the items in a laptop are replaceable, Now they have what is called flexfit avaliable, the use of Mini PCI and moduler components. The time where desketops as we know it won't will be gone soon. Very soon there will only be mobile computer devices. The only reason for a desktop will be for very high end design, development, and for servers. The tablet PC and laptops will be what everyone will have soon(i am refering to the next 5-10 years probably). Dell would be simply doing what they tout they are, on the cutting edge and providing for us down the road.

I'm interested in a Graphics Upgrade for the sole purpose of keeping my computer as current as possible.  Most of us can upgrade our RAM, Hard Drive, periphrials, and even our procesors if so inclined.  However at this point in time we cannot upgrade or video cards, which are in fact evolving and being outdated much faster any other component in the system.  While the majority of applications do not rely heavily on graphics power, within those that do (read games), the difference is noticable.  I have no interest in overclocking a chip, this is WHY I am in support of chip upgrades.  If I can get better performance and reasonable temperatures (high reliabilty) by upgrading the chip, I will do this before I EVER overclock a chip in a laptop.  Also, as the Video Memory is integrated onto the daughtercard, as prices and physical dimensions of memory shrink, we should be able to upgrade to 128, 256, or even 512 MB video memory concurrently with new chips.  As far as warranty issues, I have no problem with an automatic voiding of the manufacturers warranty due to video upgrades as long as the condition is made very clear at the point of sale.  Those that purchased an extended warranty should be able to get a pro-rated refund on their remaining warranty in the event of an unauthorized upgrade.

BTW, Intel is trying to seriously leverage the industry into adopting its open standard for laptops.

I5150, Mobile P4 3.06 non HT, 512MB, 60GB, NVidia GeForce FX Go5200 32MB, SXGA+, XP Home

Message Edited by jk79 on 02-06-2004 12:12 PM

Message Edited by jk79 on 02-06-2004 12:14 PM

I agree. Notebooks will become more component upgradeable, but yeaterdays were not sold on that basis, nor are todays. The day will come when Dell will advertise that fact. Only when thay are assured that the upgrades will not cause damage to the machines. Unfortunately only a V Card can cause damage now. Hd's can not, Lcds, cannot, Processors can not., RAM cannot....But an overclocked video card with modded drivers can and will. Until Dell can lock the clocks to their spec and not allow mods to change that. I don't see why they will open themselves up to that can of worms.

I suggest they sell only to those who are out of warranty. No risk to them at all. In fact I'm guessing whan someone calls in for an upgrade they can tell if the machine is under a warranty and gives the buyer the run around. I'll bet Dell will sell anything to an owner out of warranty sine that is IN their intrest to do so. Many bought the extended warranty on the older machines and would like to upgrade now. The warranty should be voided, not pro rated (again more peperwork and cost to Dell)They have no legitimate business reason to prorate a warranty. Undertand that the number's of consukers that would take advantage of an upgrade are very small in comparison to the amount of machines they sell overall. A very small segment buy their machines for 3D benchmark scores and heavy duty gaming, but they realize there is a market for that and will as any good company provide the machines for that segment when they can do it safely and profitably...The they WILL market exclusivily to the high gaming performance segment. I would guess the extended warranties on those machines will cost even more than on a standard setup due to the tweaking many will do to sqeeze out a few xtra bragging right Mark scores and FPS.

8600 1.4
15.4 WXGA
512 333mhz ram
40 GB (5200 rpm)
NVidia 5200Go 64mb
DVD/CDRW
INtel wireless
Win XP Home
1 year mail in.
$1268 (refurb)

3D mark 2002 .000052 At avg 1 FPS

One of the reasons Dell added modular cards in its later laptops is for their own benefit in sales..

If they want to "add" a new card to the lineup of a selling laptop, they need only develop a new card, not a new motherboard..
This has happened many times at Dell, good examples:
The 5150 was initially speced with the M9 ATI 9000, but that GPU isn't available on a new 5150 anymore, totally superseeded by the FX5200.
The 8600 wasn't specced with an M10 GPU initially, but it is now..

They really only added it to cut costs on their own upgrade schedule for new laptops, (not upgrading sold onces), and as already mentioned, RA warranty work.


rgds

Franki

HEy Frankieh looks like im following you in the forums lol!

Anyway I was really dissapointed with my 5150 not being able to do much with DX9 games like HALO. If Dell would just put better graphics cards into the 5150 all laptop buyers and owners would eb eating out of their hands. Or they could really just allow for upgrades. Its just stupid. They advertise in the magazines that these things can play DX9 and when you get the game install it and it doesnt work who is to blame. Dell of course. If I could upgrade my GPU i would do so but I would still have bought the 5150 for its superfast CPU's Dell just really screwed up big time with this and i would like to see some changes.

5150 3.06Ghz w/ H, UXGA, 512MB RAm, 40GB HD, 64MB GeForce FX5200(poopy), Truemobile1300, CDRW/DVD

Yes, I could really use a video card upgrade.  I know that this Geforce 4 isn't going to last long in terms of the ability to play new games.