XPS 8500, GTX 1080 MSI Sea Hawk hybrid GPU, Asetek liquid CPU cooler, upgrade

Update on the temps and the stock CPU cooler:

1) Like another XPS 8500 users, I can attest that with the rear blower cards there is a lot of warm air being dumped out of the back of the case and the room can get uncomfortably warm.  The Pascal card has a GPU with cooler operating temp than previous Nvidia designs, but it still vents a lot of heat in the process.  The upside of this rear blower card  is that the warm air is at least outside the case…..

I noted before. under heavy loads with the GTX 1080 , the CPU temps runs in the mid 70’s and peaks to 80 degrees  with the stock  CPU cooler.   That’s running 3440 x 1440 at 60fps on TW3, a game known to test GPU limits.   

I still have high CPU temps in this machine using 1) rear exhaust design card, 2) front intake fan and 3) onboard cooling helping to keep the Sea Hawk GPU temps in the 50’s.  If you are pushing any GTX 1080 to the limit, I would be really careful with any card design where the onboard fans are dumping hot air back into this case.    Even though the rear blower type card supposedly vents 100% of the heat outside of the case it still leaks some warm air into the case, but much less than a fan design dumping warm air back into it.

A well designed case with good airflow should mitigate these higher temps and one would probably never notice the difference in temps from a blower style cooler vs dual fan/ACX type fans.  As mentioned by others on these boards, the stock XPS 8500 case with a single 92mm rear exhaust does not have good airflow in general.  The case design with lower vents in the front bezel and side panel and the ability to remove the lower rear pci slot covers only supply passive venting in the area above and the 2” below the graphics card.   Any video card with dual fans is remixing warm exhaust air back into the card and ultimately will increase ambient air temps and add to CPU temps.  Worst case I’ve seen was testing a R9 290X card in the XPS 8500 and that 3 fan design led to CPU temps in the mid 80’s before I shut the machine down.  Not good. 

2) I discovered that the stock CPU cooler chosen by Dell does a decent job in managing CPU temps.  After doing some searching, the size of the XPS 8500 case and height restrictions does not allow for any aftermarket CPU cooler that has a fan larger than 92mm.  I was able to install a highly rated  Zalman copper tube design CPU cooler without any problems.  It has better cooling numbers than the Coolermaster TX 3, a cooler everyone seems to recommend.  It has a large V shaped heatsink and copper tubing that made direct contact with the CPU.  I installed it several times using different methods of thermal paste applications.  Under load with TW3, I was never able to get it to outperform the stock  aluminum heatsink with the  fancurve that Dell uses in this case.  It seemed to do better than the stock cooler at lower loads but under heavy loads the temps still hit 80 C.   Looked cool with the LED, but otherwise did not function as well as I hoped.  The 92mm fan on the CPU coolers seems to be a limiting factor.  I am back to using the stock cooler.

This information might not be relevant to anyone not pushing their video card at higher resolutions, but isn't that why anyone would upgrade to the GTX 1080?

Looking at an Asetek liquid cooled solution that others have used and will update if I go that direction if temps become an issue.

@HanoverB, You can also cut the front of the case and add a 120mm intake fan. If you also remove the unused PCI blanks this will enable the case to flow better.

On one of our systems I also replaced the factory exhaust fan with a Noctua NF-B9 PWM which is not only quieter but also moves more air.

halfway down this page is the hack job I did on one our the systems and it made a huge improvement.

en.community.dell.com/.../19611037

The best solution is to re-case the system, and if you search the forum you'll find a couple that have done this.

@HanoverB, You can also cut the front of the case and add a 120mm intake fan. If you also remove the unused PCI blanks this will enable the case to flow better. On one of our systems I also replaced the factory exhaust fan with a Noctua NF-B9 PWM which is not only quieter but also moves more air. halfway down this page is the hack job I did on one our the systems and it made a huge improvement. en.community.dell.com/.../19611037 The best solution is to re-case the system, and if you search the forum you'll find a couple that have done this.

Hiya DanH.   Thanks for the response.

I’ve had an intake fan in this case since last summer and replaced it with an intake fan/radiator with the recent GTX 1080 Sea Hawk install.   There are some pictures above in the Sea Hawk install showing the previous and new intake fans.

In regards to the Noctua NF-B9 fan you recommended, I’ve had the newer and improved version of that fan, the NF-A9 PWM,  sitting here for a few days.

I received and installed the Asetek 545LC CPU cooler this afternoon using the Noctua fan

I’m fully liquid cooled and will work on temps and fan curves over the next few days.

The all in one solutions are not as good as the system coolers especially since the radiator and fan on the Asetek CPU cooler are 92mm.

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Using the stock Dell fan curves, TW3  3440 x 1440 after a quick run around Novigrad:

The Sea Hawk Corsair SP120 radiator fan on the 3 pin motherboard header is running ~900 idle to ~1200 rpm load.  That header has a very conservative fan curve rise in fan rpm's vs case/cpu temps.   It's okay for basic exhaust fans and since I'm looking for lower noise it should be fine as I was running the Sea Hawk radiator fan at 1000 RPM already

The Noctua AF-A9 exhaust fan on the 4 pin PWM motherboard header is running ~900 idle to ~1600 rpm load.  The 4 pin PWM header has a more aggressive curve as reflected by the higher rpm under loads in response to the same case/cpu temps. This header should be ideal for radiator cooling.  In this case, it serves as controlling the exhaust fan to cool the CPU radiator.

Using these fan headers:

I’m seeing GPU temps of 58-60 C with 66 C at peak.  This is fine.

I’m seeing CPU temps of 68-70 C, with 76 C at peak.  Acceptable, but still a little on the high side.

As expected with the current fan curve on the 4 pin CPU PWM header, the single Noctua PWM exhaust fan does step up as CPU temps get higher.  I thought with a better exhaust fan connected to the more aggressive fan curve on the CPU PWM header, CPU temps would be better.  Looks like the fan curve is still a little conservative.   Using the CPU coolers' radiator in an exhaust setup also is not preferred, but the front intake position is already taken by the 120mm Sea Hawk fan/radiator.  I am considering adding a second fan to the CPU cooler's rear exhaust setup in a push/pull configuration as CPU temps are still a little on the high side.

Working fine right now and these are initial numbers are just after install and a short 10-15 min run.  I'm sure after playing longer the fan speeds will change the temps after running a while at higher rpms.  Will clear the BIOS in case there are some errant fan settings there, play with the GPU onboard fan curve, add/swap some fans around and/or perhaps adjust some motherboard fan curves after seeing how these temps are over the next few days.  

Changed the configuration by adding a fan:

After one hour of TW3 at 3440 x 1440:

CPU temps:  64-66 C with peak at 70.    

GPU temps:  54-56 C with peak at 60.

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I added a second fan to the Asetek CPU Cooler Radiator exhaust setup in a PUSH --> Radiator --> PULL configuration.

That took care of the runaway CPU temps once the initial rise in temperature hits 68-70 C, the Dell fan curve point where the motherboard controlled fans eventually kick in.

PUSH fan connected to the PWM 4 pin header @ 900 ->1350 RPM

PULL fan connected to a PSU 12V molex @ fixed 1600 RPM.

Really nice fans as even with one fan at fixed 1600 RPM, the XPS 8500 is still fairly quiet at idle. 

Sea Hawk GPU radiator cooling fan on the 3 pin header increases 900 ->1050 RPM , GPU onboard fan peaks 1100 ->1800 RPM.

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I’m seeing stable readings and acceptable noise levels.  The 1600 RPM rear exhaust fan is the loudest fan in this setup.

Good here and this cooler setup has finally taken care of the high CPU temps that resulted from the GTX 1080 install.

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Fans I used:

I wanted to reduce idle and gaming noise down to minimum so I added the Low Noise Adapter that comes with the Noctua NF-A9 Flex Fan that drops the fixed RPM from 1600 to 1250 RPM.  That should also create a more balanced airflow. 

I had the extra Corsair AF120 fan so I also changed the front intake fan configuration to Corsair SP120 LED (push) and added the additional Corsair AF120 Quiet (pull) on the rad brackets.  I would consider adding a second fan to the Sea Hawk radiator as optional as GPU temps are already stable with the single fan.

Final fan configuration as follows

REAR EXHAUST fans to cool radiator for Asetek CPU Cooler (<-- Airflow out of case):

Noctua NF-A9 Flex (Pull Fan to 12v molex with LNA at fixed 1250 RPM) <-- RADIATOR <-- NF-A9 PWM (Push Fan to 4 PIN PWM motherboard header)

FRONT INTAKE fans to cool radiator for Sea Hawk GPU (--> Airflow into case)

Corsair SP120 (Push Fan to 3 pin motherboard header) --> RADIATOR --> Corsair AF120 (Pull Fan to 12V molex at fixed 1100 RPM)

I like the look, size and features of the XPS 8500 stock case and wanted to make it work with the new GPU’s.    From what I did with this upgrade to Pascal, I have some thoughts:

1) Using a hybrid cooling GPU is a great choice to keep GPU temps  and noise levels down.   An intake fan is part of the installation and it will bring some air into the case.  The intake air is a little warmer as it passes through a radiator but the decreased GPU temps make up for that.  Solid GPU temps below 60 C and less if you play with the onboard fan curve through MSI Afterburner.

a) change the rear exhaust fan to a more efficient one

b) Depending on the games and resolutions you are using you might have a problem with CPU temps. If they are above safe temp levels for prolonged periods of time, I would consider a better cooling option. I had problems with the runaway CPU temps with the GTX 1080 as once it hit 70 C, the stock cooler was not able to manage the temps and it hit 80 right away.  It’s like a runaway train, once the temps start to build, the hot air is just going everywhere and the stock cooler and rear exhaust aren't able to keep up.

2) If you are running an air cooled  GTX 1080 and having problems with case and CPU temps:

a) add an intake fan to the lower front of the case.  You want a large, slow running fan up front that moves a lot of air.  Look for an air flow fan that cools well at lower RPM for less noise.  I know that a 140mm fan can be installed as a front intake, I would not hesitate to do so.    The Corsair AF 120 Quiet Edition is a good choice for a 120mm fan with a good cooling to noise ratio.  Have it run at max speed 1100 RPM and power it off the 12 V Molex from your power supply.    This will drop temps by 3-4 C.  A higher RPM fan will slightly drop temps more, but at the expense of more noise.  

b) change the fan curve on your GPU to a higher percentage, but will result in more noise.

c) change the rear exhaust fan to a more efficient one

d) consider a better CPU cooling option if CPU temps becomes an issue for you as it did for me playing demanding games at higher resolutions.

3)  If you haven’t bought a high performance card yet, with this generation of card I would try to buy a card that has a rear exhaust design if you are going to push it.    Then deal with both the GPU and CPU temps in the same manner by adding an intake fan, changing the rear exhaust fan and a possible cooling solution if temps get out of hand.  Playing a demanding game like The Witcher 3 and Crysis 3 at higher resolutions will result in both CPU and GPU temps in the 80's under load with high levels of fan noise in the stock case.  Why blow the hot air back into the case?   Dual and triple fans are neat from the marketing perspective, but make no sense in a case with inadequate airflow.  Games down the road may make better, efficient use of CPU hyperthreading and multi-cores, but will still keep pushing the limits of the GPU.  = More heat.

4) As far as fan options, that’s where you have to be creative.   Determine how the two motherboard fan headers vary fan RPM's relative to CPU and case temps.  Then plan your fan cooling configuration using those two motherboard headers and your PSU 12V molex adapters to set up the variable and fixed fan speeds you need to cool things with the fan locations you are considering.   Most new fans do come with a step down adapter which allows you to drop the voltage and the RPM to your liking giving you even more flexibility.

Match the fan speeds to what is happening at that location. 

For example, here is a common scenario that helps airflow in this case: 

You want to 1) add a front intake fan  2) change the rear exhaust fan   3) Keep the  stock CPU cooler.

You know that the 3 pin header from the rear exhaust fan you will be replacing has to be connected or you will get a system fan error at startup.  But you know that you want a higher RPM fan there pulling air out all the time, rather than when the motherboard tells it to.  You also know that in the XPS 8500 that header has a range of 900 to 1200 RPM under load.    That RPM range is okay for intake fans.

---So at the front intake, connect a nice 3 pin air flow fan which is rated above 1200 RPM in that location to the 3 pin header.  You will get that low RPM quiet fan that you want to move air into the case.  When connected to the 3 pin header, the fan speed will vary from 900 RPM at idle to 1200 RPM under load.

---At the rear exhaust, connect a fan like the 3 pin Noctua NF-A9 FLX to a 12V molex from your power supply using the Low Noise Adapter to run at a fixed 1250 RPM.  It will be pulling air all the time with a good balanced airflow at a higher RPM vs being controlled by the 3 pin motherboard header.  That original exhaust fan was at 900 RPM and stays that way until CPU temps hit 68-70 and then only maxes out at 1200 RPM. That fan curve is fine for non-gamers, but not ideal under loads.

Side note:  When looking at cooling vs noise ratios of a fan being considered for a quiet PC, most of the temperature reduction happens when fan RPM’s increase from 800-1100 RPM, above that you get smaller incremental changes.  Sure you can get a larger temperature drop at 1800-2300 RPM, but then noise is an issue.  Especially in that front intake location.   I tried a Corsair SP-120 High Performance High Static Pressure fan there stepped down to a fixed 1260 RPM and the noise was really annoying.  It has really bad cooling to noise ratios. I did not try a Noctua there, as the Corsair AF-120 Quiet Edition fan I tried next was great at a fixed 1100 RPM.

I then ran the Prime 95 1344K stress test for 2 hours with the new fan /cooler configuration to check stability of the CPU temperature.

1344K Torture Test Setting is 100% load on the core and core voltage at full clocks on all 4 cores/8 threads.

Tested CPU temps when at full load 100% for two hours (Room temp 74 F / 23 C):

Core #0  = 66 C

Core #1  = 68 C

Core #2  = 70 C

Core #3  = 64 C

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Fan speeds during test:

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(<-- Airflow out of case)

REAR EXHAUST RPM’s to cool radiator for Asetek CPU Cooler 

Noctua NF-A9 Flex (Pull Fan): Fixed at 1250 RPM

NF-A9 PWM (Push Fan): Max at 1343 RPM via 4 pin PWM motherboard header control

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(--> Airflow into case)

FRONT INTAKE RPM’s to cool radiator for Sea Hawk GPU 

Corsair SP120 (Push Fan): Max at 1052 RPM via 3 pin motherboard header control

Corsair AF120 (Pull Fan): Fixed at 1100 RPM

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CPU temps look to be just as stable using this low RPM quieter fan/cooler configuration.  

(Note: This configuration works well for the Sea Hawk GPU with just the single SP120 Corsair LED fan installed as a pull fan and connected to the 3 pin motherboard header.  Will see just a 1-2 degree difference without the additional intake fan.  GPU temps are already stable with the single fan.

Adding the second Noctua fan to the rear exhaust CPU radiator is what stabilized CPU temps for me which became an issue after installing the GTX 1080.  )

A note about the new GTX 1080 EVGA FTW Hybrid, their liquid cooled version:

Dimensions are 5.06 “ high x 10.5 “ long:

I mentioned that the height of the card is really important if you want to go with a hybrid cooling type of card.

In the XPS 8500, the maximum height of the GPU in addition to the height of its power connectors is 5.425” to the underside of the side of the chassis.

The just released  EVGA GTX 1080 hybrid is a rear exhaust/single fan design  based on their FTW PCB and is therefore 5.06 “ high x 10.5 “ long.   The length is fine.  It’s just that the height will put you very tight to the side of the metal chassis and the two 8 pin connectors will not likely fit unless you cut  some metal or are able to find right angle connector adapters.  I would also be concerned about the bend of the hoses because of the height of the card itself.

The MSI Sea Hawk is 4.3 “ high.  There is 1.125 “ of space from the top of the installed card to the underside of the side chassis.   The standard connector and wire with a tight bend is an additional 0.75” high when plugged into the card.   So it fits okay with 0.375” to spare.

Pix of MSI Sea Hawk single connector:

The height of the EVGA FTW hybrid card  is 5.06” .  Add the 0.75”  for the standard connectors = 5.81” so in my case, that card won’t allow the connectors to be plugged in unless I can find a right angle female 8 pin PCI-e adapter cable that is less ~0.36” high when plugged in.  Some power supplies might have low profile plugs that would work so please check your PSU if you go EVGA.

This applies to all 5" high GPU's with connectors on the far right for those looking for higher clock speeds. 

One option for EVGA buyers would be to buy a card from them that isn’t 5" high and buy the addon hybrid cooler which is available as a separate item.

The Asetek 545LC Liquid CPU Cooler install.

Asetek supplies the liquid cooling solutions for Corsair.  They are a local company here in San Jose, CA.  The 545LC is one of the few 92mm AIO liquid cooling solutions available and I ordered the product from them after doing a search and seeing that there was another Dell forum user who installed one in their XPS 8700. 

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/t/19648355

Installation is very straight forward:

First of all, make sure whatever fan you decide to use at the 3 pin header on the motherboard is already plugged in.  It will be underneath the radiator once installed.  (It’s still easy enough to remove the fans and radiator from the back of the case if you forget or want to change a fan.)

In a typical single fan install, you would 1) normally install the radiator and fan first while leaving the plastic cover on the CPU cooler to protect the copper face with thermal paste already pre-applied. Then 2) install the CPU cooler once you have the radiator and your choice of fan installed.

Unit does not come with a fan:

In this case, I chose to do a push/pull configuration.  It’s probably easier to install the CPU cooler first since you will block the mounting bracket with the radiator and fans installed.  You could also leave the push fan off and install the unit in the recommended manner with a single fan as long as you have a short Phillips screwdriver handy to install the push fan as the last step.

Asetek white paper on air flow and liquid cooling

http://www.asetek.com/press-room/blog/2011/air-flow-matters-part-1/

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Installing the CPU cooler:

Asetek supplies motherboard mounting brackets in the kit that attach to the backside of various AMD and Intel motherboards designs.  In the case of the Dell XPS 8500 and XPS 8700, you don’t’ need the back mounted brackets at all.  It makes mounting very easy.

You will be using the bag with the hardware marked in blue “Intel 115X”

The screws that attach the Asetek mounting plate fit into the existing 3MM (M3-0.5) threads on the Dell motherboard:

There are two parts to the mounting assembly.  1) The locking ring and 2) the bracket you use to mount the cooler to the bracket.  

They snap together to sandwich the cooler like this:

The only tricky part of the install is to make sure that you have the hoses slightly to the right (from underneath) of one of the screw locations on the bracket before you snap them together.  In the picture above, the bracket screw location is on the upper left between 10-11:00 clock position and you can barely see the outline of one of the hoses just to the right between 11-12:00.

If you have it aligned as shown, the final position of the cooler will look like this:

That seemed to be the position with the least stress on the hoses. (install shown with just a single NF-A9 PWM fan used and attached to the 4 pin PWM header)

Fasten the bracket using the 4 mounting bolts in the kit.  I tightened opposite corners a little at a time using just my fingertips on a Philips screwdriver until I felt some resistance and then a ¼ turn more.

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Installing the push/pull fan radiator:

Once you have the CPU cooler in place, first install the push fans to the front of the radiator.  I put the NF-A9 PWM fan as the push fan. (black screws in pix)

Then install the radiator with the push fan already attached, to the pull fan and the case using the 4 exhaust fan screw locations through the back of the XPS 8500 case.    I used the NF-A9 FLX  fan as the pull fan. (silver screws in pix)

This is the machine screw size,  6-32 x 1-1/4, you will need to attach the second fan to the radiator if you don’t have them handy:

Careful with this wire from the wireless antenna.  Don't pin it under the fan at the back of the case:

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The CPU pump and fan connections:

1) I ran the 3 pin wire from the Asetek CPU cooler to a constant 12 V molex  from my power supply. Use a 3 pin fan header to 12 V molex adapter.  The cooling unit pump needs CONSTANT power to function optimally.  I have seen others attach the 3 pin wire to the 3 pin header on the motherboard. That fan header is voltage regulated.

2) I ran the 4 pin fan wire from the NF-A9 PWM push fan to the 4 pin PWM header on the motherboard.  That fan’s speed will vary with CPU temps from 900 idle  -> 1350+ RPM load pushing airflow through the radiator to cool the cpu and exhaust air out of the case.

3) I ran the 3 pin fan wire from the NF-A9 FLX pull fan to a constant 12 V molex  from my power supply.  I used  the Low Noise Adapter that came with this fan and again a  3 pin fan header to 12 V molex adapter.  The Low Noise Adapter (NA-RC13) reduced the fan to 1250 RPM.  Very quiet and adds a constant pull of airflow through the radiator.

4) I ran the 3 pin fan wire from the front intake position to the 3 pin header on the motherboard.  That fan is attached to the Sea Hawk radiator and runs at ~900 idle to ~1200 rpm load.  (Note: If you are not using an AIO Hybrid Cooling GPU like the Sea Hawk, then install just a front intake fan with a 3 pin wire to a 12V molex running at a fixed RPM.  Large 120mm-140mm fans running at low RPM's are best as intake fans. The addition of just a fan up front greatly improves airflow.)

I chose not to use splitters on the motherboard headers at the risk of loading up those headers with multiple fans that would exceed the rating of those headers.  Didn’t need the splitters anyway.

Happy with the performance of the GTX 1080 with the 34” 3440 x 1440 display.   Temps are just fine and system has been stable until just recently due to a displayport cable issue that occurred.

This machine has worked just fine since the mid-July upgrades and about two weeks ago the Nvidia driver started to crash when I was doing BG’s in WOW Legion and during my second play through with Witcher 3.  There was snow on the screen, the screen would turn black and flicker, turn green and flicker, blink on/off and the games became unplayable.  Upon restarting the machine, the machine would hang up and result in a black screen, other times it would start just fine.  Eventually, after playing anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour, the driver would crash and again snow on the screen and flickering of the screen from a black screen back to the desktop.  Really was frustrating when I was in a BG at a crucial moment.  The interesting thing was that the second monitor  I use at 1920 x 1080 was not being affected and that display was using DVI to DVI.   

I thought the resolution was the issue so I uninstalled and reinstalled the driver several times using DDU, rolled back the Nvidia drivers to previous releases, ran the setup file checker in W7 startup, uninstalled some mods, checked power supply voltages, made sure the WIndows 7 updates were current, and the problem still persisted.  I then switched to HDMI on my 34” monitor and the problems disappeared.   Duh.  Should of done that to start out with since my other display never showed those symptoms.   Guess we should check the cable first next time.......

It did turn out to be a faulty Displayport cable and all is well.  The cable that failed was the cable that came with my monitor.  It turns out that only a few cables sold are actually Displayport 1.2 compliant and certified by Displayport.org.    Not to say non-certified cable wouldn’t work however.

http://www.displayport.org/

I wound up buying this cable off Amazon, which is certified, and all is well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0098HVZBE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Fortunately, I’ve never had any cable issues with a computer display, but I guess there is a first time for everything.   The displayport cables are somewhat finicky from what I’ve read, so just a heads up for anyone with crashing drivers using Displayport.

A faulty cable?  That is so frustrating.  Along those lines, my blu-ray player was acting up on Amazon instant video last week.  Could not for the life of me figure it out, the rest of our network was working just fine.  I was about to toss the player and get a new one when my wife suggested that I try a different ethernet cable.  I told her that was crazy talk but did it anyway to pacify her.  Well I had to eat crow because it was in fact the ethernet cable.  That cable had been in service for 10 years with no issues and had not been touched for probably the last 5.  The moral of the story is check your cables before your wife tells you to ;-)

That's a good story.  

Yeah, usually if a cable works when u first install it, u don't ever think about it ever again.  Either it works or it doesn't and who expects a cable to fail....

Speaking of ethernet cable....I'm done looking at ethernet cable for a long time hopefully after this project where I installed a Media/Network Closet using a Leviton ABS polymer enclosure.  We were doing a remodel and they had removed a lot of sheetrock.  So I spent some hot days and nights when the workers weren't here in the attic. inside walls and between floors drilling holes, running RG6 cable and Cat 6, and ran electrical to the panel.  I also installed all the connectors at the wall plates and terminated all connections. Funny how all my friends were busy that particular weekend when I did all the connectors.......Learned a lot though.

The polymer enclosure is RF transparent so wireless signals can pass through it unlike traditional metal enclosures.  The Uverse router and gigabit switch are in the enclosure.  I installed a fan inside as well to help keep things cool.

Works great, every room is now networked and cable ready, I think it turned out great.  

However, wife hates it, and wants to cover it with artwork.........oh well.