Dell T5500 - Windows 10 1709 Fall creators update

It works fine HOWEVER It is not Ronco set and forget nor is it everything is on the Windows 10 disk with no drivers needed. Video cards and Audio Drivers and Chipset Drivers and INTEL RST 10.1.0.1008 are not optional.  Legacy video and chipset and audio drivers are required.

http://downloads.dell.com/published/pages/precision-t5500.html

This means Vista or 7 drivers are what is available period end.

There will NEVER BE windows 10 drivers.

That doesn't mean its not working it means its not supported.  This is true for many dells all the way back to Optiplex GX620 from 2005.

The XP installed VISTA Capable machines.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/20104/

Description	Supported OS	Download
Analog Devices ADI 198x Integrated High Definition Audio Driver This package provides the Analog Devices ADI 198x Integrated High Definition Audio Driver and is supported on Precision and OptiPlex that are running the following Windows Operating System: Windows 7.More details	Windows 7 32-bit
Analog Devices ADI 198x Integrated HD Audio Driver This package provides the Analog Devices ADI 198x Integrated HD Audio Driver and is supported on the OptiPlex, Precision and Latitude models that are running the following Windows Operating System: Windows 7.More details	Windows 7 64-bit

Description	Download
Dell Precision T5500 System BIOS A16 Dell Precision T5500 System BIOSMore details
Dell Precision T5500 System BIOS A15 Dell Precision T5500 System BIOSMore details

Description	Supported OS	Download
Intel Chipset Device Software Intel Chipset Device SoftwareMore details	Windows Vista 32-bit Windows 7 32-bit Windows 7 64-bit Windows XP Windows XP x64 Windows Vista 64-bit

I'm not expecting Dell to Support it, but have been running fine for a couple of years now. I'll come on to the results of my 1709 update, but firstly I'm interested to know if anyone is already on 1709 on a T5500.

Exactly @Speedstep, unsupported by Dell but entirely functional with a little bit of effort - or this was the case until the 1709 update. I've been running fine on creators for about as long as it has been out. Presumably all my drivers are fine at this stage. The fall update has not gone well. Generally it appears to freeze at 'Creating personalized settings' when attempting to long in, but it appears leaving it to run for 12 hours does get it to struggle through. The current situation is if I do a normal start, it does after many hours bring up a desktop screen, but it's completely empty and the taskbar does not work. I've managed to TaskManager up (took hours) and a few other apps. The consistent result is that click on the taskbar cause the blue spinner to run. Right clicking the taskbar blanks the screen momentarily but then refreshes back to where it was - clearly a crash restart is occurring. In safe mode, I have got a desktop up and running. It took 15 minutes to load and 15 minutes to get to TaskManager. But after that mostly it's usable but again can end up with very long waits for some things. Of course I don't intend running in safe mode in the long run .So the first challenge is diagnosing the problem.

A faulty install of Fall Update?

You may have to wipe the drive and do a clean install of the latest update...

As a last resort perhaps. Some googling shows this update has been a disaster for many, even supported environments. It appears the version of the MS Updater has had quite an impact. I'll be trying a few more things before a complete new install.

"freeze at 'Creating personalized settings' " ... "struggle through" ... "took hours"

Above means some component or driver is timing out and being unresponsive over and over again.  This behavior isn't specific to the T5500 or even Windows 10.  You'll find internet hits searching "Windows 10 freeze creating personalized settings"

I would guess it's driver/network related, meaning Windows can't go out to the internet or if it can it can't locate a needed driver update (probably for a portable/pluggable device which wasn't included in the 1709 Feature Update).  You might try running Safe Mode without Networking to see if it's still really slow.  You could also try disabling any network connection and rebooting to see if it's network related as well.

It may need to update a driver for some hot pluggable or rare/older device and it either can't get out to the network or can't find the driver.  You might try removing all USB or other connected devices (mouse, keyboard, printer, camera, scanner - everything) and then booting to see if it's still really slow.  If that fixes the issue then re-plug each device and see if any device can't load a driver and/or causes the slowness again.  Could try same thing with any add-in PCIe cards - remove and see if slowness goes away.  Device Manager - if you can get into it - might show the problem device.  Same with Event Viewer.

If the issue is that it can't update the network driver (Microsoft dropped support or something), then you may need to do that manually.  If you have a newer or still supported PCIe network card, you could disable the onboard one(s) and try the add-in card - again, possibly having to manually install the driver.

I and others have also had problems with Windows 10 Update not being nice with graphic card updates on the two X58 systems in the house.  I came across a comment that some of the newer graphic cards won't install drivers unless system is updated to a later version of Windows 10 first.  This is a hint that major changes have been made to Windows 10 graphics system and without running the latest graphics driver Windows and/or the graphics card may not function correctly.  Additionally, I've seen reports of Windows "dropping" or not properly updating older graphics cards.  You might try manually uninstalling current driver and updating your graphics card driver and/or trying a newer graphics card.  In some cases I've had to manually uninstall everything related to the graphics card and then install the latest graphics driver after a Windows Update messed things up.  (I always did this prior to Windows 10 - uninstall old driver , then install new - because if you didn't, it usually created problems.)

If the T5500 has a Fast Boot setting in the BIOS and it's on, you might try temporarily turning it off for one boot.

You probably already know this - if you've got Windows 10 Pro, you can turn off automatic updates and control when the update occurs.  I use this and let others be the guinea pig until the dust settles.

I wonder with every major Windows 10 Feature Update when Microsoft is going to break my X58 systems.  Fortunately, both my X58 systems (simpler, single CPU, unlike the T5500) still work fine with version 1709.

Hope you resolve it.

@Techgee, thanks for your suggestions. I think you are probably right, but I veering towards a driver issue. Looking at some of your suggestions:

I have booted in Safe mode with no networking and it is still an issue.

I have tried rebooting with no USB devices, but not success. I have not tried removing any of internal devices yet so that may be worth a try. I've not got much mind. A NVidia GTX 550Ti graphics card which appears to still have it's original device drivers. I have Logitech M705 cordless mouse and standard Dell keyboard. Both appear fine but I guess I can't be 100% certain they are not involved with the issue.

Device Manager is either reporting no problems or status not available due to safe mode.

Although it takes time, I have managed to get IE running in Safe mode (with networking on) and the internet works OK.

There are still a few more of your suggestions to try, such as reinstall GPU drivers. Also I've yet to try changing Fast Boot in BIOS.

An additional point to note. The system has reported the previous restore point has been completed. A reboot clearer reinstalls the update. I'm wondering if I can avoid that maybe I can step back, but I'm unconvinced the drivers will revert properly.

Finally I would add I have run the usual SFC and DISM commands, but to no avail.

Finally, on to EventViewer. It's not something I've used much. In particular, given the picture I've painted, where would you suggest looking and what to look for. The only error I can see cropping up regularly on a view brief initial look is "DCOM got error "1084" attempting to start the service dps with arguments "Unavailable" on order to run the server. I think from the logs that occurred before the update, but perhaps not as often.

Many thanks for your assistance and Merry Xmas for tomorrow!

What happens if you boot from a bootable CD/DVD instead of from the hard drive?

Have you run any diagnostics? Not sure Precision systems have onboard diagnostics, but reboot and immediately press F12. Look for an option to run diagnostics and run them all, especially the extended hard drive tests. Copy error messages, if any...

I had similar kinds of issues with my Dell laptop and the only fix was to wipe the hard drive and do a clean install which solved the problems and Fall Creators is running fine now.

GrahamBright, it mostly likely is a driver issue.  Microsoft probably updated Windows to 1709 and some driver you're still running is no longer compatible with Microsoft's changes.

It's likelier Microsoft tested core systems, meaning a "standard" motherboard for each chipset.  Likely culprit is an add-on device or a non-standard component.

Because a component is working, doesn't mean it's not the problem device.

Removing devices is one way to isolate the problem device.  Another is to just update the drivers.  I'd go down a list of likeliest components by complexity, rarity, age, etc. and check your drivers against what the latest is on manufacturer's site and update what's old.  Drivers can be updated through Device Manager over the internet which goes out to Microsoft's Update site or manually by download the update from the manufacturer.

I'd start with the graphics card.  Latest NVIDIA driver for GeForce GTX 500 series from NVidia is 388.71 released December 20, 2017.  (I'm running 388.43 dated Nov. 30, 2017 with a 970 card.  I was forced to update the 388.13 driver pushed out by Windows Update due to a problem.  Monitor wouldn't wake up from Sleep and the system was intermittently freezing, although freezing was at least partially caused by the need for a Crucial M4 SSD firmware update.  I uninstalled everything NVidia related and installed 388.43, latest at the time.)  "Beta and Older Drivers" in the above link can be used to see or download older versions if you want.

If you unplugged the Logitech M705 mouse USB doggle and the slowness still occurred that's probably not it, although not sure how to verify without plugging in a wired mouse.  You could try updating the USB mouse driver in Device Manager.

Some questions:

• What are you using for a USB host, meaning any add-in PCIe USB 3 card?
• What are all the PCIe cards in the machine?
• What device in the T5500 are you using for networking?
• What's your drive configuration and drives?

Happy Holidays!

YES  and it works JUST FINE.  Non Clean installs aka upgrades do not work fine.

Not supported DOES NOT mean not working.

INTEL RST 10.1.0.1008 is REQUIRED.

Windows Vista or Windows 7 Audio Drivers are REQUIRED.

Chipset Drivers are REQUIRED. Struggling to run is bad failing RAM or Hard Drive.  This is to be expected for such an old system.

Time to buy new blank hard drives and do CLEAN INSTALL.

End of story.

If the system is using Microsoft's generic graphics driver when in Safe Mode then it's probably not the graphics driver (although probably wouldn't hurt to update it, but with the system being so slow...).

Next up I'd check out the storage system.  Are any SSD's running old firmware, especially versions that could cause freezing?  (Firmware version can be found via Device Manager, Disk drives, right-click properties, Details tab, Hardware Ids, end of first line after device's name - ending part that's not on the second line.)  

Running RAID or AHCI?  With which company's (Intel, Microsoft, other) driver?  What shows up in Device Manager under Storage controllers?  Same with IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers? Was a special driver loaded to use larger drives (>2 TB) - like Intel RST 11.7?  If so or running Intel RST, are you currently running a version of Intel RST older than that, like 9.6?  If you're running Intel RST you might try last version supporting the ICH10R controller (11.7.0.1013 available from Intel here) or if using it with AHCI mode switching to use Microsoft provided AHCI drivers (my preference unless you have drives >2TB), which will likely be Intel ICH10 Family 6 Port SATA AHCI Controller, Driver Version 7.0.0.1013 (I think this comes from Intel's INF Update Utility - Primarily for Intel 6, 5, 4, 3, 900 Series Chipsets, Version 9.2.0.1030, available from Intel here).

Does your T5500 have the PERC 6/I PCIe RAID card?

FWIW, I have a personal rule to never flash firmware on an unstable (hanging, freezing, BSOD's, etc.) system - it's just asking to brick it.  (Same with thunderstorms in the area or hot day with everyone using lots of electricity running A/C - want to lower the risk of a power outage.)  Best to do so on another PC or to do so from a bootable USB drive if it's Windows that's unstable.

I have been dragged away on family duties for a while so will come back to this. I have upgraded Nvidia drivers and no change. No SSD right now but it's planned for the future. My hunch is it is going to be the HDD (I have ES Constellations, 500MB each) which are fine and rock solid but will be reverting RST drivers next as well as Chipset drivers as suggested in this thread. I've tracked other users have had BSOD with the later RST drivers on x58 so I'm more hopeful I'm on the right track. However they found a resolution with v13 drivers and did not need to go back as far as 10.1.0.1008. Will let you know how it goes.

Did you uninstall the NVidia drivers and all their software first?

I'd make sure you've got a good backup of your data before changing the RST drivers.

I think Intel RST 11.7.0.1013 was the last version when used with ICH10R when in AHCI mode.  In RAID mode I think later driver versions can be used with ICH10R, but seems it's tricky.

What worries me is I don't see any other T5500 users with a freezing/performance problem, so I'm wondering what's different about your system or if this is a more non-system-specific freezing issue.

Oh, you might try disabling Windows Fast Startup for one boot to see if that resolves it.

Trying Windows High Performance Power Option would be another thing.

Another thing to check is your Memory usage in Task Manager, Performance tab, Memory.  Is Memory usage growing or near max available memory?

"like Intel RST 11.7"  THIS IS NOT AN OPTION with the 5500 with Intel 5520 chipset.    

5 Series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_5_Series

https://ark.intel.com/products/36783/Intel-5520-IO-Hub

When you go up in version you drop support for older chipsets.   10.1.0.1008 is MAX for this specific system aka 5 Series Chipset. Microsoft* .NET Framework 3.0, 3.5, or 4.5 is required to be installed on the system in order for the Intel® Rapid Storage Technology User Interface to install.  No version of Microsoft* Operating Systems have .NET 3.0, 3.5, or 4.5 installed by default. 

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/20104/

PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2682&CC_0104 = "Intel(R) ESB2 SATA RAID"
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_27C3&CC_0104 = "Intel(R) ICH7R/DH SATA RAID"
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_27C6&CC_0104 = "Intel(R) ICH7MDH SATA RAID"

Intel(R) ICH8R/ICH9R/ICH10R/DO/5 Series/3400
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2822&CC_0104 = "Intel(R) Desktop Express Chipset SATA RAID"

PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_282A&CC_0104 = "Intel(R) Mobile Express Chipset SATA RAID"

I know this works because I've clean installed it and everything is fine.  Flashing Bios with Windows 10 is NOT RECOMMENDED.  Flashing Bios with Known good hard drive with windows XP or 7 installed is fine.  ANTIVIRUS Software is NOT a good Idea when trying to update bios.  11.7.0.1013 is for 6 series Chipset.  The 5500 is NOT SUPPORTED.  Intel® 6 series / C200 series

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/22272/

The Dell site only has 9.6.0.1014

Description	Version	Supported OS	Download
Intel Rapid Storage Technology (Pre-OS Install) Driver This package provides the Intel Rapid Storage Technology (Pre-OS Install) Driver and is supported on Latitude, OptiPlex and Precision that are running the following Windows Operating Systems: XP, Vista (32-bit) and Windows 7 (32-bit).More details	9.6.0.1014	Windows 7 32-bit Windows Vista 32-bit Windows XP
Intel Rapid Storage Technology (Pre-OS Install) Driver This package provides the Intel Rapid Storage Technology (Pre-OS Install) Driver and is supported on OptiPlex, Precision and Latitude models that are running the following Windows Operating Systems: XP (64-bit), Vista (64-bit) and Windows 7 (64-bit).More details	9.6.0.1014	Windows Vista 64-bit Windows XP x64 Windows 7 64-bit

Description	Version	Supported OS	Download
Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver This package provides the Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver and is supported on Latitude E6510, Precision T5500/T3500 and OptiPlex 960/XE that are running the following Windows Operating Systems: XP, Vista and Windows 7.More details	9.6.0.1014	Windows XP Windows 7 64-bit Windows XP x64 Windows Vista 32-bit Windows Vista 64-bit Windows 7 32-bit