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WARNING: Vanilla Windows 10 on Aurora R4 Pushed Updates or Drivers Corrupt the System State
I just installed Windows 10 Pro, vanilla, literally the freshest install of Windows. Everything seems to go okay. I was able to log in and everything as per the usual. Then I installed updates (it pushes drivers by default too), and now it stays stuck at the spinning dots (before loading Windows). I am able to get into the BIOS but I cannot do a lot of things I have been trying to do to fix it:
- Can't boot into Safe Mode (stuck at spinning dots).
- Tried running the command prompt from the recovery screen and doing
chkdskandsfcscans. Nothing seemed to be wrong. - Can't System Reset (also gets stuck at spinning dots).
- Can't boot into Windows 10 USB recovery media I made for it (tried both legacy and UEFI boot mode options, but this also is stuck at the spinning dots).
- I unplugged all peripherals besides mouse and keyboard, then even tried the mouse and keyboard.
- ePSA boot looks good; no problems found.
I have researched into this, I know that some people have successfully been able to reset after this, but not I. I can't seem to do anything except run the Windows installation media again and reinstall Windows. Must have tried installing Windows 10 about 10 ironic times now, trying to manually install my drivers so that it doesn't push new ones, even tried installing Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB Edition (this is a very special version who is supposed to give administrators the ability to defer updates, "supposed to" is the keyword because it does not work).
In Windows 10 you cannot stop updates from happening. There is supposed to be a way to disable driver updates from also getting pushed along with them, but it does not work at all, because the first thing it does once you tick the box to stop drivers and proceed to connect it to the internet is push drivers and updates as if it knows better. Neither does Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB Edition which is supposed to be specifically designed for this purpose.
What I think the problem is, from experience, is the Intel Management Engine Interface Driver. I also think the Intel Chipset Driver needs an update for this one to work correctly. It seems that if I install it manually (the old Windows 8.1 version) I can sometimes get the corruption to occur. Also it seems that this driver, even if installed, will be overridden by the newer version under Windows Update. I do believe this is the root cause.
Does anyone at Dell happen to know when we may see a new version of this driver for Windows 10?
eaglenv
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September 10th, 2015 00:00
Exactly why I went back to 8.1...what if a older driver works better than a newer driver? [:|]
Murdoctor
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September 10th, 2015 11:00
I'd say you're luckier than me if a newer driver or update forced onto your system doesn't stop it from loading the operating system. Is there no way of disabling certain devices on the motherboard, such as Intel's?
DELL-Terry B
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September 11th, 2015 10:00
MURDOCTOR,
After you contacted me via PM I started researching this a little and I found the following document. I specifically noticed the first issue mentioned in the document. Have you disabled secure boot and see if that helps?
System restarts in a loop to a black screen
The document also points out to a possible conflict with the GPU driver (if Nvidia).
Issue: If you did not uninstall the video driver prior to the upgrade there will be a conflict with the new version.
Solution:
Please let me know if you are familiar with this document and if you have tried these steps previously and if they where of any help.
TB
Murdoctor
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September 12th, 2015 13:00
Hi Terry, the two suggestions did not work. I get stuck at the spinning dots (its not a Secure Boot issue; but just to clarify I had Secure Boot disabled the entire time and this did not affect things) and I have tried installing video drivers before doing any Windows updates (in order to not get new AMD drivers pushed to me), and from testing it its not the video drivers as far as I can see. Also, my machine uses two crossfired AMD Radeon HD 7950's.
Murdoctor
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September 12th, 2015 14:00
A little update from me as well. Its definitely the Intel Management Engine Interface driver. If I install this driver on a vanilla Windows 10 installation using an offline machine by manually downloading this driver and installing it from the installation files available on the Alienware site, it always gets stuck at the spinning dots. PS Windows Update pushes this driver out to you when you check for updates in Windows 10 and cannot be stopped. Is this device configurable in the BIOS at all? Can we expect an update for the drivers of the Intel Management Engine Interface for Windows 10? This is a really crucial problem for me.
Murdoctor
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September 12th, 2015 16:00
Reading about it some more, this Intel Management Engine Interface is pure creepware that gets kernel access to your PC through hardware, which basically lets big brother connect to your system remotely and get instant kernel/ring 0 level clearance into your PC without a problem (and trust me, I write security and encryption software for a living and have written kernel drivers before, you don't want this *** on your PC). Most BIOS manufacturers have the option to disable Intel AMT entirely. I don't even know why its shipped with Alienware PCs to be completely honest, I don't want this on my PC, and absolutely want the option of disabling it. Especially since, even beyond the privacy issues, it stops my PC from booting into Windows 10. I would highly suggest adding this to the next BIOS release for Aurora PCs, please, this is a huge security risk.
Tesla1856
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September 12th, 2015 19:00
Does this help?
http://www.howtogeek.com/223864/how-to-uninstall-and-block-updates-and-drivers-on-windows-10/
On Windows 7 and 8, I generally never install drivers from Windows Update anyway.
Murdoctor
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September 12th, 2015 20:00
Ah man, thanks! The tool actually works! https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
ChrisHasAnXPS87
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September 18th, 2015 22:00
Hi Murdoctor,
Try having a look at the posts here:
en.community.dell.com/.../19651598
Another person and myself had a very similar problem. Looks to be hardware/mainboard related as the other person got it fixed when Dell replaced his motherboard.
I'm still in the process of finding a fix to my issue.
Hope this helps!
Chris
ChrisHasAnXPS87
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September 28th, 2015 18:00
Quick update from me - I got a replacement motherboard (refurbished) which fixed the issue. Refer the thread above for details.
Note: Intel Mgmt Interface also appears to control power saving options (eg. CPU throttle up/down etc.) this is evident in the system event log as it sometimes logs stats about this. So I think you are missing out on power/performance if the driver is not installed.
Murdoctor
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September 28th, 2015 19:00
No, it really doesn't stop me from overclocking my CPU. I have each core running 4.3 GHz because I set a 43 multiplier on them in the BIOS. I replaced the standard Alienware cooling with a better one from Corsair so I can clock my CPU up probably even higher than this. Using Speccy (which runs a kernel driver to detect CPU core speeds) I am able to verify this. Trust me, I've written software to do this and am the only person to explain the process:
http://www.dima.to/blog/?p=101
. I write kernel drivers sometimes, but mostly encryption and security software.