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Question

I, like several others I have found here, have found the latest Dell deception.

My new X800 XT card is, in fact, not that at all. There is no video capture capability, despite muliple advertisements and false sources of information to the contrary:

In my case, I called Dell BEFORE I bought, and was told there clearly WAS VIVO, and that I could convert my VHS tapes to digital. I asked multiples times for confirmation from a second-level tech before I spent $3000, but could not accomplish this feat. So perhaps it is my fault for assuming that Dell representatives have any obligation to tell the truth.

ATI's web site list quite clearly their new partnership with Dell, and states,

"ATI’s RADEON® X800 Powers Dell Dimension XPS

Tomorrow’s technology today. The third-generation Dimension XPS is the most advanced Dimension ever built. It enables everything from intense 3D gaming and serious video editing to extreme multitasking and high-end music production. Dedicated PCI Express slots provide tremendous bandwidth to enable the full potential of the newest generation of graphics cards including ATI’s RADEON® X800 XT.

RADEON®X800 XT provides an extremely smooth, responsive HD gaming experience, putting capable gamers in complete control of even the most demanding game titles. RADEON® X800 XT gives you more than just a great gaming experience. It also has sophisticated video processing, filtering and acceleration features that make multimedia applications more efficient, inspiring and fun."

Again, my bad for thinking that "serious video editing" would include video capture. Perhaps the XPS comes loaded with all my family videos.....?

Now that I have wasted time trying to get my VCR talking with my computer, and reading every website that deals with the X800 (ALL of which have VIVO), I realize that Dell has taken out the appropriate chip that would allow this function.

I would think that when you buy a 540i BMW, you would expect the engine, transmission and brakes that routinely come with a 540i. If the provider gives you the same car, but you later find the engine is of a lower displacement, and the transmission is without manual shift, and the brakes are NOT anti-lock, isn't that deception? After all, if every 540i sold throughout the country has different features than the '540i' you bought, aren't you the victim of fraud?

When Dell asks for $400 extra for an "X800 XT", they are obligated to note that it is, in fact, not an X800 XT if it has significantly different features than EVERY OTHER X800 XT sold through any other manufacturer or distributor.

I believe I am still within the 21 day Satisfaction period. So I have called to offer Dell a choice-they can replace this with the real X800 that I have already paid for, or I will give them their computer back. In fact, perhaps I should check to see if the 3.6 GHz chip runs at 1.2......after all, it might just be Dell's version of the Pentium, and why would I expect the same clock speed as the real Pentium....

I write to this forum to provide Dell the chance to tell me how I may perform analog video capture, as promised before I gave them $3000 for a counterfeit machine. Please, Dell, don't tell me it will work great if I just buy a video capture card, or a DV camcorder...

Three pages of previous similar complaints have been removed by the moderator recently, so also please be aware that this 'community' is being censored.

Sorry for the long post.

ungj85 · Answer

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

The_Man42 · Answer

clearly you shouldn't take tech. support advice -   my God people, there are virtually little or no VIVO X800XT's around, the X800 Pro was the major VIVO supported chip, the X800XT wasn't from the beginning, if you don't see respected VIVO components and ports on the back of your card, it's NOT VIVO, and most likely the X800XT's won't come in VIVO anymore period from anyone, the X850 series will offer some, but it may only be X850 Pro from the start.   If the 'VIVO' feature isn't blatently stated on the page for your system configuration and card selection then it doens't offer it...if it does say 'X800 VIVO Capability' and you didn't get a VIVO card, well then go ahead and get them for false advertisement, refund, and whatnot, but don't expect any X800XT cards with VIVO. Message Edited by The_Man42 on 01-23-2005 12:07 PM

KO cape · Answer

I agree with sawxray on this one,

If your not satisfied get your money back, or get an exchange, then put your own card in

the thread on top of this page will show you that Dell position is that its your fault that you cant read between the lines

Dim 4550
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HL-DT-ST CD-RW Drive
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sawxray · Answer

Sapphire, Visiontek, Radeon cards all have VIVO, unless I am missing something...

Please correct me if this is so.

O/W, I am going to return the card to Dell within the 21 day period, and buy a real card.

I do not think one can actually read between the lines on this one. The 'Help Me Choose' option one sees when selecting a graphics card does not provide enough info. Thus, the phone calls I made. Unfortunately, the rep decided to try to get off the phone rather than asking someone who knew...

sawxray · Answer

First, you can agree with anybody you want. That does not force you to say anything less than complimentary about anybody. Why would you expect someone to go searching for images posted by a user about the guts of their computer? I mean, don't you have a job? I prefer to be efficient in my life, and go right to the source to research material before I buy. That would most certainly not include ogling someone's computer pics!

And how much time did you spend comparing the stock X800 pics to this user's pics to figure out that the Rage Theater chip was missing? I don't see how this applies to the normal person who doesn't review graphics of computer components before their selection.

You can wait five years to buy a new card, but does that mean you will buy something substandard now, pay too much for it, then use it for five years, knowing it does not do what you want, or what was promised by the vendor? Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Thank you. Please read the last post. Available many places, right now. How the heck do you know I am wasting my time? I need to do video capture and editing. How is that a waste of my time? You seem as uninformed on this as you do on the availability of cards. And, yes, Dell is going to reimburse me within the 21-day period. Did you even read the last post, or are you responding emotionally only, out of some need to argue despite the facts?

Of course you sound bad! Come on, even you can understand how your post comes off. You sound like a whining, negative person who can't find the positive approach to a problem, and would rather just point a finger. What does "wah whah" mean? Are you trying to call somebody a cry baby? What the heck is your point, man?

Why personal attacks, when you can't even understand the prior posts? Next time please try to contribute something positive. And leave out the attacks, so you don't sound like an illiterate flamer who can't spell and can't even use basic punctuation. We wouldn't want anybody to feel that way about you now....

gonnagetXPS · Answer

I Agree with The_Man on this one, When I bought my XPS I knew there was no VIVO on the card, so I purchased an external solution. I saw Images posted by A user who was extremely exited about his XPS G3 and when I saw the innards I noticed the chip was missing so I said shoot I lost hardware Mpeg encoding/decoding but I said oh well I will just wait a 5 years for this card to be outdated and then buy A new card that has the Rage theater chip.   To my knowledge the X800 XT still provides accelerated decoding for Divx, real, and the WM9 formats. I'm not completely sure though on this. But the Divx Player recognizes the X800 XT as capable for hardware accelerated post processing.    Go around and look for a PCI Express X800 XT with Vivo you may find it online but with a hefty price tag and delay. If you buy it your wasting you time, unless Dell exchanges your X800 for A X300 gives you the difference in $ and then you buy the X800 then okay good for you.   I don't want to sound bad, mean, evil, or trying to defend Dell, but please Stop Whining! Because now the first few pages of this forum are littered with 'wah whah No vivo!' Message Edited by gonnagetXPS on 01-24-2005 06:37 PM

The_Man42 · Answer

XPS you're correct about accelerated hardware decoding, the X800/850 series fully support WMV9 hardware decoding and Divx reccomends them as well.  WMV10 will soon be supported for full decoding.  This is Ati's advantage over nVidia, as if nVidia tried to do this it will take up to 75% to 100% of their CPU because the onboard video processor is broken on the 6800 series.   There will be a patch out to offer full accerleration for WMV9/10 from Microsoft soon, and if you wanted it now you could edit the registry and change a certain value to '1' from '0' to enable it.  I forget the exact path I did it a while back and forgot the instructions on what to do and where to go.  But there will be a patch from Microsoft soon to enable it.   unless you're doing heavy video editing and encoding you really wont need VIVO.  Full acceleration for HD video files and regular files is still there.

sawxray · Answer

Thank you for the input!

However, I would like to ask for some clarification, if you would.

As you noted the 800/850 series have hardware interpolation/processing, I would love to know if this information includes the Dell versions. I have, indeed, seen that information on many websites, including ATI's site. But I do not see that anywhere on the Dell site, and strongly suspect that is part of the disabled feature set when the Rage Theater chip is removed. After all, that is the hardware that provides this function, isn't it.

If I am not correct in this, please let me know. But if the info you present is from the ATI website, then we have no assurance whatsoever that the Dell version has these functions in the absence of the chip. And since that is the function I am looking for, I can not be happy with the Dell version!

TIA

DELL-Chris M · Answer

sawxray,

This isn't a Dell deception. Who wrote that on Ati's website? Was it Dell? No. It was Ati marketing without the consent of Dell. Our User Guides specify what OUR video cards can do. None of them state vivo support. If a salesman told you that vivo was supported, then they were wrong. Instead of assuming that the specifications for Dell video cards and Ati video card are the same, why not investigate?
* Go here
* Click your video card
* Click English
* Click Specifications

sawxray · Answer

Chris-

Thank you for your reply.

First, I made more than a reasonable effort to find out about the card. If you check the purchasing webpages, as I used when configuring the system I wanted to buy, you would see 'Help Me Decide', and there is no further info there regarding the limitations of the card. It remains an 'X800 XT' card, which should fit the standard of that particular model as listed anywhere else, unless otherwise stated. If a vital feature is eliminated (as we all understand can happen with components sold to large manufacturers like Dell), the card should not be labeled 'X800 XT'.

Second, I could have checked the users guide. I didn't because I didn't own a Dell yet, and didn't think of that. However, I did a LOT of other research about this computer and its components (I spent much time on other components), and I spent a lot of time on your service queue, after which I got the info I thought I needed regarding this particular component. I specifically stated what I wanted to do with my $3000 computer, and was specifically told there was VIVO. If the information you now provide was available, why did not the rep I speak with check it??? He could have saved us all a lot of trouble.

Third, there was a lengthy thread regarding just this issue, that has now been deleted by the moderator. Is Dell so afraid of criticism that it will censor the COMMUNITY forums? I consider this action highly inappropriate. Perhaps I would have seen that thread before I bought, but now I am spending my time making up for Dell's mistake.

I would just like what I paid for. If this computer could not perform the tasks I specifically asked about, and if your rep and sales pages evaded this important issue, then I think it prudent that Dell take a bit of responsibility for it. Please don't tell me I didn't check it out beforehand!

What would you suggest I do at this point, please?

SR45 · Answer

The Moderator made a post indicating that no Dell sold video cards supports VIVO and anyone stating that they do, is just plain wrong.

http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_video&message.id=103626

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Message Edited by SR45 on 01-24-2005 02:23 PM

CastleBravo · Answer

Um, x800 series cards don't normally have VIVO, including ATI-packaged x800 cards.  Only x800 series cards labeled VIVO have VIVO.  So I don't see how you can fault Dell for selling you an x800 XT without VIVO, since standard  ATI-badged x800 XT cards don't have it either.   That is, except for the fact that a Dell customer service told you about the card having VIVO when it didn't.  But you can't trust them, unfortunatley; they are full of it all of the time (as a read through these forums will tell you).

gonnagetXPS · Answer

Sawxray,   1. I did not go searching 'XPS Pics', The post was there and since I planned on purchasing the XPS I decided to take a look.   2. I have already done video editing and DVD authoring on this Pc, 26 times to be exact.   3. In the description of the XPS it does not state anywhere that it supports Vivo, before Buying the XPS I read around the forums and saw some un-satisfactory things being done by Dell support so I did not trust them from day 1.   4. You being 'efficient' in your life got you wrong information, and me being very careful allowed me to understand exactly what I was buying.   5. Time spent comparing X800 XTs= 4 seconds. I also compared it to the 6800, and 9800. It's something simply called reading hardware reviews to get a general to specific idea of a piece of hardware.   6. You tell me that I don't have anything to do but look for pictures in this post, but judging by the amounts of post you have it seems that you came here only to complain about your lack of VIVO.   7. You tell me 'You sound like a whining, negative person who can't find the positive approach to a problem' when you are the one coming to this forum not even to help people but to simply bash Dell and WHINE about your lack of VIVO.   8. Who says I payed too much and got somthing substandard? I was going to build it on my own but then Dell threw in a 25% off coupon and I could not compete. If anything I paid less. Then a 40% coupon came and I lost an even better deal.   9. Dell never officially promised X800 XT cards to have VIVO.   10. I have a job and I am a student forgive me if I dont have enough time to correct some typos or run spell check so that you could read this better. If you are an adult with a job you have to learn how to start accepting criticism or you will just look like a whining baby.   11. My point is: Solve your problem and stop complaing.

anuraj1 · Answer

I think that the bottom line is that Sawxray was lied to by a salesman. Companies MUST back what their salesmen tell the customers, or at the very least be willing to allow the customer to return the product for a full refund. After all, it was a representative of Dell that claimed that the Dell x800 XT had VIVO.

True, the X800 XT (non-PE) was not normally VIVO, unless it was a rebadged XT PE that failed to hold the higher PE clock speeds. However, if a Dell sales rep claimed it was VIVO, as a sales tactic, then Dell must do something to fix the problem it caused.

Sawxray's car analogy holds a lot of water. If I go to a car dealership and am told by the salesman that it is a V-8 just so I'd buy the car, and later find out that it is only a 4 cylinder, I would not be happy. (And yes, for some people with video editing needs, the VIVO feature is THAT big of a difference.)

The simple fact is, no one has a right to criticize sawxray for being unhappy because he was lied to about a feature that he NEEDS for the work he intends to do with his new computer.

Sawxray, Dell will never buy you an X800 XT PE with VIVO, simply because they don't sell one. My suggestion would be to ask them to take back the x800 XT for a full refund, and buy a new XT PE VIVO yourself (however, these seem to be very hard to find).

You can argue that research wasn't done, but why would someone do further research if he was told it had VIVO, and the Dell advertisement claimed you could convert VHS to digital video with the x800 XT? How are you supposed to use a non-VIVO card to get video in??

Sawxray, good luck, you are in the right here. And even though I love my Dell, there is a right and a wrong, and Dell needs to right this wrong.

anuraj1 · Answer

Also, here is a user manual for ALL X800 series cards for PCIe:

http://www.ati.com/support/manualpdf/X800PCIe.pdf

It states that ALL of the x800 series cards have VIVO if they are PCIe (Bottom of page 7).

Conversely, in the AGP versions of the card, only the x800 XT PE cards have VIVO (bottom of page 7):

http://www.ati.com/support/manualpdf/X800agp.pdf

It is common knowledge that the only way the other versions (Pro, XT non-PE) of the AGP x800 would have VIVO is if they were originally XT PEs but couldn't hack it with the high memory and core speeds, or had damaged pipelines. This is why Pro VIVOs can sometimes be flashed to be XT PEs, since they are the same physical hardware.

So... I think I agree that the PCIe version from Dell shouldn't really be called an ATI x800 XT at all, unless they make a point of showing the differences between the ATI and Dell versions.

Message Edited by anuraj1 on 01-24-2005 09:36 PM

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