DELL Studio XPS 16 1645 i7 power problem

Does the comment on the 130w adaptor mean that *only* a BIOS update would be needed in order to use this adaptor safely and long-term?

No.   I do not know that only a BIOS update is all that is required.   I know that it *is* required to correctly utilize one.

Well, this issue is certainly affecting the outlet store. There are currently 9 pages of 1645's for sale. I guess we will soon start seeing them pop up on ebay for the unsuspecting. Wonder how this has affected overall sales. I would guess that they are getting a ridiculously high return rate...and justly so.

Sure don't feel as good about my 1640 any more. Have been looking around at other systems to replace it but none from Dell. I have probably spent 10K for company and personal Dell systems over the last 2 years. Oh well no more.

Dell make these laptops with the assumption that real *general* use of the machine will not be as heavy and intense. Throttling is not something *new* that has been mention as a design feature rather than a flaw of design (Refer http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/12/02/dell-on-laptops-and-throttling.aspx).

Hi everyone. Thank you Todd for the update on the current situation.

RaymondKL and anyone who has been told that the machine is the general use only... do you have evidence of this in writing from Dell?

Can you post it please?

Just curious because I would consider Gaming to be a general use of a machine which is advertised as follows on the dell.com.au website!

LINK TO FULL SIZE SCREENSHOT 1

LINK TO FULL SIZE SCREENSHOT 2

 I have a Dell XPS M170, which when it came out, was considered a 'top spec' machine, with the latest Nvidia Go 6800 Ultra graphics card. Ahhh, good times!

When it was being thrashed during games, the fans would come on so loud you could hear them over the game effects, and the 130W adapter used to get sooo hot you could smell the plastic cooking. This was the unavoidable trade off for using components that drew large amounts of power and got very hot in the process. Most XPS users knew and accepted this.

My poor (overworked) graphics card died recently so I was looking for a replacement machine. I fancied staying with an XPS, because my old one was so good. The i7 XPS Studio 16 was one of the highest spec machines in my budget, but I couldn't quite believe it only came with a 90W adapter. I didn't think Technology had moved on to the extent where top spec components no longer drew large amounts of power. All of the other manufacturers machines that were of similar spec, had 120W+ adapters. I remember my old XPS would refuse to boot up if you had an adapter of less than 130W connected.

Now I've read the posts on this, and linked forums, and can't quite understand what Dell are up to. The i7 XPS Studio 16 is a top spec machine using components that can draw large amounts of power and get hot in the process, just like the old XPS's. Dell's history with the XPS machines must have given them an idea  of what to expect when these new machines were thrashed? (I hope the old XPS staff haven't gone over to the Alienware side of the business, taking their smarts with them).

I see we are waiting for a BIOS update. I would be amazed if that alone was sufficient to eradicate the throttling issues. It appears the installed components (CPU, GPU and RGBLED) want to draw more current when performing at optimum performance (thrashed), than the standard 90W adapter can provide. This will still be the case (on a 90W adapter) whatever routines the BIOS uses to manage and distribute the available current. There will inevitably be performance compromises if the components are not able to draw the current they need.

I also have concerns that the throttling issues are not present when running on battery. Whilst the way batteries deliver their power is fundamentally different to the way AC adaptors provide it, there must be a danger that If these machines regularly demand current from the batteries well above their design spec, we could see the failure rate for batteries start to rise. In the light of the throttling issues on AC power, are we confident Dell would have given appropriate specs to their battery manufacturers? Time will tell.

Do I think Dell will fix it? They must appreciate they will further alienate many of their loyal customers and put off a lot of new ones if they don't. That could prove to be a costly mistake. Personally, I think Dell should bite the bullet, issue everyone affected with a 130W (at least) adapter and release a new BIOS ASAP.

Would I buy one? Well bit of a gamble I know, but I've got one on order... but then, I've already got a 130W adapter and I'm familiar with unclewebb's fine work. It is after all, a lovely bit of kit, hopefully only temporarily blighted by poor power management. (Mind you, the strong customer protection legislation we have in the UK, that means if the machine 'does not perform as advertised' it can be returned for a full refund, did play a part in deciding to go for it).

When Dell sort this out, this will be a storming machine for the price we paid.

Best of luck!

GADiLAREDO:The performance throttling scheme being used is not CPU heat related.  It is designed to prevent the power adapter from delivering more than 90 watts to prevent the 90 watt adapter from running beyond its specification.  Even if you plug in a 130 watt adapter, the bios is still designed to limit its power output to 90 watts maximum.

The instant you switch to battery power, there's no longer any need to protect the power adapter since it is no longer plugged in.  This immediately disables the above throttling limits so the CPU and GPU can run much closer to their designed performance abilities. The result on battery power is next to no throttling and your computer will be able to perform at very close to its full rated speed.

That helps confirm that the circuits and wires on this motherboard are designed and quite capable of handling more than a 90 watt adapter can provide. If these motherboards could not handle more than 90 watts, they would fail when running on battery power.  It doesn't make any sense that Dell would design a computer to fail when not plugged in.

Will the Bios update address the throttling issues in the XPS 1640 as well?

I do not know.  If they determine that the XPS 1640 is experiencing the same problem, and the BIOS update they design will relieve the problem, then my best guess is that it will also be developed into a BIOS update for that model.   When, I couldn't answer.

Todd, It's good to hear from Dell. I think you guys ought to strongly consider reaching out to some folks to see if they'd be willing to beta test the new BIOS.

From what I understand we did that.  And it got leaked.   So no idea if we'll do it again.

Uncleweb,

Thanks for your helpful posts. If I understand your last post correctly, when I have to do something  that is processor and video card intensive, like video editing, I would get much better performance if I unplug my 1645 and run on battery power only because I will get the full performance of the chip. Also, It would be better to run on external monitors instead of the lap top screen because this will use less power so the battery will last longer. Is that correct? 

Thanks in advance for your response!

(Re a BIOS beta test)

From what I understand we did that.  And it got leaked.   So no idea if we'll do it again.

Bummer, and I quite understand.

But if that was the source of the X29 and A05 BIOSes floating around, should we take comfort from the fact that you are still experimenting, or take alarm from how distant they were from anything we would accept as an adequate solution?

(Re a BIOS beta test) [quote user="DELL-Todd S"] From what I understand we did that.  And it got leaked.   So no idea if we'll do it again.

Bummer, and I quite understand.

But if that was the source of the X29 and A05 BIOSes floating around, should we take comfort from the fact that you are still experimenting, or take alarm from how distant they were from anything we would accept as an adequate solution?

[/quote]

If it were that far from adequate it would help to explain why its taking a bit longer this time to come up with the next attempt at resolving the issue.

Has anyone else been having screen flickering problems?  I noticed it most when reading webpage and such, like this one.  Every few seconds the screen flickers a little bit...another annoyance.

So far I've got:

1. Random freezing,

2. Poor performance when it counts

3. Flickering screen

4, untouchably hot power supply.

Best $3000 I ever spent.

Has anyone else been having screen flickering problems?  I noticed it most when reading webpage and such, like this one.  Every few seconds the screen flickers a little bit...another annoyance.   So far I've got: 1. Random freezing, 2. Poor performance when it counts 3. Flickering screen 4, untouchably hot power supply. Best $3000 I ever spent.

Yes, I experience te very same problem with the display. It is quite annoying and soon my eyes will start bleeding :(. No solution found yet. Even no statement from Dell regarding this issue, no matter my numerous posts.

Nikolay

[quote user="lammmy"] Has anyone else been having screen flickering problems?  I noticed it most when reading webpage and such, like this one.  Every few seconds the screen flickers a little bit...another annoyance.   So far I've got: 1. Random freezing, 2. Poor performance when it counts 3. Flickering screen 4, untouchably hot power supply. Best $3000 I ever spent.

Yes, I experience te very same problem with the display. It is quite annoying and soon my eyes will start bleeding :(. No solution found yet. Even no statement from Dell regarding this issue, no matter my numerous posts.

Nikolay

Maybe it's only your eyes guys. just kiddin. Are you using RGBLED?

Yeah, it is RGBLED. I thought its just me seeing this :), but afterwards I found out quite many people complaining about the same issue.

Nikolay