Ok ... sounds like you have some work ahead of you.
If drive 2 only has 300GB of storage, it is entirely possible that it is a RAID 1 with a Hot Spare - either that or the third drive is not configured into the array at all, even as a HS or one of the drives is 146GB. If you have Server Administrator installed, you can confirm this. If you don't have it installed, you can install it. You will need it later anyway. ftp://ftp.dell.com/sysman/OM_6.2.0_Man_Node_A00.exe Download and extract, then run C:\Openmanage\windows\setup.exe - choose Custom install and make sure Storage Management (and all sub-features) is being installed. Problem is ... you can extract the files (~150MB) to another partition, but it must install on C:.
Problem 1 - I'm assuming you are using Server 2003 (if you are using 2008, this will be easier) ... replacing drives one at at time as you suggest will not change anything, but you will have additional space on Drive 1 to use to create another array. If you create another array on the across the drives using this extra space, then in Windows you will have the following ... C: 12.8GB, D: 60.3GB, and around 200GB of Unallocated Space. So, as you can see, that will not solve your storage issue by itself, but here are some alternatives:
1 - After creating a new RAID 1 with the ~200Gb of space and setting up, say, an F: drive, you could copy the files from D: to the F: drive, delete the existing D: drive, then use a utility such as Dell's ExtPart or a Server 2008/Vista/7 DVD to extend the C: partition.
2 - After both drives rebuild, you can delete the RAID 1 (in the controller's BIOS setup), then recreate the array WITHOUT initializing it - this is called a retag. This will remap the array to utilize the rest of the space on the disk, giving you the Unallocated Space to use in Windows - then you can follow number 1. The convenience of this method is attractive, but the problem with it is Dell's RAID engineers say this is not what the retag was intended for, and that doing this may seem to work, but will cause irreparable damage to the array. So, I do not recommend this route either, but it is an option, if you keep good backups.
Problem 2 - With three 300GB drives, you could grow it immediately, but unconfiguring the HS, then reconfiguring the RAID 1 to a 3-disk RAID 5, giving you around 500GB of storage space on Drive 2. If you want to keep a HS, your additional drives you ordered can be used to reconfigure the array as well. The math on your 6-disk RAID 5 is correct (1.5TB minus the math is around ~ 1.4TB of usable space - 1.1TB if you still want a HS) - RAID 5 uses one disks-worth of space for parity. After reconfiguring the array to its final size/configuration, you can easily extend the partition using the methods described above to the desired size.
To answer your questions:
a) Is there a way to increase the size of this "Drive 2" on the fly? ** Yes, you can do a Reconfigure of the array from the OpenManage Server Administrator. This is much like a rebuild, as the system will stay up while this is happening in the background. It would be wise to do this during slow operation.
b) If I use RAID 50, how many disks can fail before I have a problem? (Same question for RAID 5 with 6 disks). ** RAID 50 has two RAID 5's striped together, so if you have the "right" two disks fail, the entire array will fail (for example, if two drives in the first RAID 5 fail, then the entire RAID 50 will be down. Otherwise, you can have one disk in each RAID 5 fail before there is a problem. RAID 5 requires 3 disks and will tolerate one drive failing from the array. Two drives = dead. RAID 6 is not an option on the 2800, but requires at least 4 disks and will allow two disks to fail before the array goes down.
c) If I am in RAID 5 now (How do I find out?), can I switch to RAID 50 on the fly? (I read online that the Perc 4e/Di can do RAID 50). ** Use OMSA to determine the RAID setup from Windows. If you are unable to get it installed, you can boot to CTRL-M to see the setup. PERC 4e/Di can do RAID 50, but not RAID 6/60. If you have 3 disks, then RAID 50 is not possible.
d) Why wouldn't I be getting 600GB of space from the three 300GB drives I already have if they are in RAID 5? ** They are not in a RAID 5. If they are, then they may have only been partitioned at 300GB from Windows. You would then see 300GB Unallocated Space in Windows Disk Management.
Unfortunately for me, I can't get past the first step! I am running Windows Server 2003 R2. When I try to install OpenManage Server Administrator (which, coincidentally, was uninstalled to save disk space), I am told that "This operating system or service pack is not supported."
Surely the R2 flavor of this OS is supported by Dell!?
Oh oh ... R2 is supported, however OMSA will require Service Pack 2. If SP2 is installed, then there is no good reason why it should give that message, as that file should install on 2003, 2003R2, 2008, 2008R2 in both x86 and x64. If you have SP2 installed and it is still telling you that, you can try an older version ...
I finally scraped up enough free space to be able to install SP2 on the OS partition! Doing so allowed me to install OMSA version 6.2.0, as you mentioned in the initial post.
It turned out that my data drive was made up of three 147GB drives, which explains why I only had about 300GB useable out of the three of them.
To save some money, I decided to use two of the three 147GB drives for the Operating System on Virtual Drive 1. So, one at a time, I removed a 147 from virtual drive 2, and placed it in the position of one of the drives that made up virtual drive 1.
Virtual drive 1 now says that ther is 68.38GB of available RAID space. As I mentioned earlier, this Virtual drive is home to the 12GB "C" drive which is where the operating system lives, and then also an "E:" drive, which has some stuff on it that appears to only have been used by third part IT companies in the past years. I have backed thaht stuff up for now onto an external Hard Drive (attached to the server via USB). I am now ready to delete the partition that is the "E" drive, but I cannot figure out how to do so!
I downloaded Dell's ExtPart, but I cannot figure out how to either delete the E drive partition, add a virtual disk using the available space, nor ultimately how to extend the size of the c drive. EXTPART tells me taht it cannot find the c drive (which is weird, since it is running from the C drive).
So, in OpenManage, you see two 147GB drives in a RAID 1, each having ~68GB of available RAID space? In Windows Disk Management (right-click My Computer, Manage), you should see 12GB on C and 60GB on E still?
1) You need to create a new RAID array with the available space. (OMSA>Storage>PERC 4e/Di, click on the Information/Configuration link, then select Create New Virtual Disk from the drop-down menu of controller tasks.)
2) You should now see a ~68Gb chunk of Unallocated Space in Disk Management (you may need to reboot). You can create a new partition with that, then move the data from the E: drive to this new partition.
3) You can now delete the E: drive ... there in Disk Management, you should have the option to delete it by right-clicking the E: drive. It should then show as Unallocated Space.
Once this is done, then you can use ExtPart or a 2008 DVD (must be Basic disk, not Dynamic in Disk Management).
After extracting ExtPart files, open command prompt and browse to the location of the files. You will type in the command below (must enter in the amount to extend, not the final size - entered in MB).
I am seriously amazed at the incredible and prompt help you are providing!! Thank you!!
Here is my current status: I have created the new Raid Array ( I set it up to match the existing Array on the drive. That is, I set it up as RAID 1.) It shows up as Drive J now. It was a bit tricky, because it turned out that Windows was using Drive E for the paging file. So I learned how to move that to my new Drive J (so that I could Delete Drive E).
So, once I rebooted with the paging file on Drive J, I deleted Drive E, then I deleted the partition that Drive E was on. The storage management picture looks like this now:
But when I try to extend my C: drive using EXTPART, I am still getting the error that says it cannot find the C: drive:
I feel bad to keep asking, but I also think I am so close!! Do you have any other tips on how to proceed? Do I need to delete the 86MB EISA Configuration partition? What is that anyway? At this point, if I need to buy something like Acronis Disk Director, I'll do it! Would that help? I just need to finish this task!!
No, you should leave the EISA partition alone, as it contains recovery and diagnostics information. At this point, you may need to take another route. You can try the commands one at at time ... type extpart to see if it will run the program. If it does, it will ask you which partition to connect to, then try C: (must be letter and colon). If it connects to C:, then it will ask you how much to expand it. In your screenshot, 548000 is not a valid expansion amount, as you don't have 548GB to expand into. So, when it asks for size to expand, put in 56150, which according to your other screenshot is the amount you have in Unallocated Space (56.150MB).
If this does not work, you can use a Server 2008, Windows Vista, or Windows 7 DVD. If you don't have one, then you will need to get something like Acronis to do it. I've seen ExtPart not work a time or two before, but not sure why.
EDIT: Sorry, your screen shot shows 56.150GB not MB :) But when you put in that amount to ExtPart, it wants it in MB, so you would put 56150.
I'm glad Acronis did fine ... like I said, I've seen issues a couple of times with ExtPart when it seems it should work, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what causes it not to.
About the E: drive thing - I didn't exactly follow what you wanted to do with that, but remember that the array we created with the extra space from the hard drives - by creating the new array - is physically separated from the other space, so Windows cannot join them together. I don't know if they answers that question, as I didn't really understand it :)
The 2800 is pre-SATA/SAS so there is no way to "convert" it to use a SAS drive without seriously modifying the chassis/system (if it is even possible). You can however, attach external SAS storage through a RAID controller like the PERC 5/E.
Acronis Disk Director (server version) did the trick! It allowed me to extend the OS partition to the space that was vacated when I deleted the "E Drive" partition from Virtual Disk 1!! I now have the OS on an 68GB partiton, and the "E Drive" is setup on a new Virtual disk (Virtual Disk 3) on a 68GB Partition!!
I would have rather had the E drive on another partition on the existing virtual disk (I don't know why), but I cannot seem to make that happen. It really doesn't seem to matter.
I was unable to make the tool built into the Windows 7 disc work, because I could not get enough free space on the original OS partition to make it work!! Luckily Disk Director only needed about 100MB.
EXTPART still does not recognize my C: drive.
Now the bad news: My 300 GB drives arrived - I bought them on eBay - and they are Serial Attached SCSI. *UGH*
Is there any adapter or drive tray out there that will make an SAS drive work with the existing backplane in the Poweredge 2800? Should I start a new thread for this question?
theflash1932
9 Legend
•
16.3K Posts
0
February 23rd, 2010 12:00
Ok ... sounds like you have some work ahead of you.
If drive 2 only has 300GB of storage, it is entirely possible that it is a RAID 1 with a Hot Spare - either that or the third drive is not configured into the array at all, even as a HS or one of the drives is 146GB. If you have Server Administrator installed, you can confirm this. If you don't have it installed, you can install it. You will need it later anyway. ftp://ftp.dell.com/sysman/OM_6.2.0_Man_Node_A00.exe Download and extract, then run C:\Openmanage\windows\setup.exe - choose Custom install and make sure Storage Management (and all sub-features) is being installed. Problem is ... you can extract the files (~150MB) to another partition, but it must install on C:.
Problem 1 - I'm assuming you are using Server 2003 (if you are using 2008, this will be easier) ... replacing drives one at at time as you suggest will not change anything, but you will have additional space on Drive 1 to use to create another array. If you create another array on the across the drives using this extra space, then in Windows you will have the following ... C: 12.8GB, D: 60.3GB, and around 200GB of Unallocated Space. So, as you can see, that will not solve your storage issue by itself, but here are some alternatives:
1 - After creating a new RAID 1 with the ~200Gb of space and setting up, say, an F: drive, you could copy the files from D: to the F: drive, delete the existing D: drive, then use a utility such as Dell's ExtPart or a Server 2008/Vista/7 DVD to extend the C: partition.
2 - After both drives rebuild, you can delete the RAID 1 (in the controller's BIOS setup), then recreate the array WITHOUT initializing it - this is called a retag. This will remap the array to utilize the rest of the space on the disk, giving you the Unallocated Space to use in Windows - then you can follow number 1. The convenience of this method is attractive, but the problem with it is Dell's RAID engineers say this is not what the retag was intended for, and that doing this may seem to work, but will cause irreparable damage to the array. So, I do not recommend this route either, but it is an option, if you keep good backups.
Problem 2 - With three 300GB drives, you could grow it immediately, but unconfiguring the HS, then reconfiguring the RAID 1 to a 3-disk RAID 5, giving you around 500GB of storage space on Drive 2. If you want to keep a HS, your additional drives you ordered can be used to reconfigure the array as well. The math on your 6-disk RAID 5 is correct (1.5TB minus the math is around ~ 1.4TB of usable space - 1.1TB if you still want a HS) - RAID 5 uses one disks-worth of space for parity. After reconfiguring the array to its final size/configuration, you can easily extend the partition using the methods described above to the desired size.
To answer your questions:
a) Is there a way to increase the size of this "Drive 2" on the fly? ** Yes, you can do a Reconfigure of the array from the OpenManage Server Administrator. This is much like a rebuild, as the system will stay up while this is happening in the background. It would be wise to do this during slow operation.
b) If I use RAID 50, how many disks can fail before I have a problem? (Same question for RAID 5 with 6 disks). ** RAID 50 has two RAID 5's striped together, so if you have the "right" two disks fail, the entire array will fail (for example, if two drives in the first RAID 5 fail, then the entire RAID 50 will be down. Otherwise, you can have one disk in each RAID 5 fail before there is a problem. RAID 5 requires 3 disks and will tolerate one drive failing from the array. Two drives = dead. RAID 6 is not an option on the 2800, but requires at least 4 disks and will allow two disks to fail before the array goes down.
c) If I am in RAID 5 now (How do I find out?), can I switch to RAID 50 on the fly? (I read online that the Perc 4e/Di can do RAID 50). ** Use OMSA to determine the RAID setup from Windows. If you are unable to get it installed, you can boot to CTRL-M to see the setup. PERC 4e/Di can do RAID 50, but not RAID 6/60. If you have 3 disks, then RAID 50 is not possible.
d) Why wouldn't I be getting 600GB of space from the three 300GB drives I already have if they are in RAID 5? ** They are not in a RAID 5. If they are, then they may have only been partitioned at 300GB from Windows. You would then see 300GB Unallocated Space in Windows Disk Management.
CraigCole2010
5 Posts
0
February 23rd, 2010 16:00
Wow - Awesome reply!! Thank you!
Unfortunately for me, I can't get past the first step! I am running Windows Server 2003 R2. When I try to install OpenManage Server Administrator (which, coincidentally, was uninstalled to save disk space), I am told that "This operating system or service pack is not supported."
Surely the R2 flavor of this OS is supported by Dell!?
theflash1932
9 Legend
•
16.3K Posts
0
February 23rd, 2010 22:00
Oh oh ... R2 is supported, however OMSA will require Service Pack 2. If SP2 is installed, then there is no good reason why it should give that message, as that file should install on 2003, 2003R2, 2008, 2008R2 in both x86 and x64. If you have SP2 installed and it is still telling you that, you can try an older version ...
ftp://ftp.dell.com/sysman/OM_5.5.0_ManNode_A00.exe
CraigCole2010
5 Posts
0
February 27th, 2010 13:00
OK!!
I finally scraped up enough free space to be able to install SP2 on the OS partition! Doing so allowed me to install OMSA version 6.2.0, as you mentioned in the initial post.
It turned out that my data drive was made up of three 147GB drives, which explains why I only had about 300GB useable out of the three of them.
To save some money, I decided to use two of the three 147GB drives for the Operating System on Virtual Drive 1. So, one at a time, I removed a 147 from virtual drive 2, and placed it in the position of one of the drives that made up virtual drive 1.
Virtual drive 1 now says that ther is 68.38GB of available RAID space. As I mentioned earlier, this Virtual drive is home to the 12GB "C" drive which is where the operating system lives, and then also an "E:" drive, which has some stuff on it that appears to only have been used by third part IT companies in the past years. I have backed thaht stuff up for now onto an external Hard Drive (attached to the server via USB). I am now ready to delete the partition that is the "E" drive, but I cannot figure out how to do so!
I downloaded Dell's ExtPart, but I cannot figure out how to either delete the E drive partition, add a virtual disk using the available space, nor ultimately how to extend the size of the c drive. EXTPART tells me taht it cannot find the c drive (which is weird, since it is running from the C drive).
theflash1932
9 Legend
•
16.3K Posts
0
February 27th, 2010 15:00
So, in OpenManage, you see two 147GB drives in a RAID 1, each having ~68GB of available RAID space? In Windows Disk Management (right-click My Computer, Manage), you should see 12GB on C and 60GB on E still?
1) You need to create a new RAID array with the available space. (OMSA>Storage>PERC 4e/Di, click on the Information/Configuration link, then select Create New Virtual Disk from the drop-down menu of controller tasks.)
2) You should now see a ~68Gb chunk of Unallocated Space in Disk Management (you may need to reboot). You can create a new partition with that, then move the data from the E: drive to this new partition.
3) You can now delete the E: drive ... there in Disk Management, you should have the option to delete it by right-clicking the E: drive. It should then show as Unallocated Space.
Once this is done, then you can use ExtPart or a 2008 DVD (must be Basic disk, not Dynamic in Disk Management).
After extracting ExtPart files, open command prompt and browse to the location of the files. You will type in the command below (must enter in the amount to extend, not the final size - entered in MB).
extpart c: 60800
CraigCole2010
5 Posts
0
February 28th, 2010 10:00
I am seriously amazed at the incredible and prompt help you are providing!! Thank you!!
Here is my current status: I have created the new Raid Array ( I set it up to match the existing Array on the drive. That is, I set it up as RAID 1.) It shows up as Drive J now. It was a bit tricky, because it turned out that Windows was using Drive E for the paging file. So I learned how to move that to my new Drive J (so that I could Delete Drive E).
So, once I rebooted with the paging file on Drive J, I deleted Drive E, then I deleted the partition that Drive E was on. The storage management picture looks like this now:
But when I try to extend my C: drive using EXTPART, I am still getting the error that says it cannot find the C: drive:
I feel bad to keep asking, but I also think I am so close!! Do you have any other tips on how to proceed? Do I need to delete the 86MB EISA Configuration partition? What is that anyway? At this point, if I need to buy something like Acronis Disk Director, I'll do it! Would that help? I just need to finish this task!!
Again, sincere thanks!!
Craig
theflash1932
9 Legend
•
16.3K Posts
0
February 28th, 2010 14:00
No, you should leave the EISA partition alone, as it contains recovery and diagnostics information. At this point, you may need to take another route. You can try the commands one at at time ... type extpart to see if it will run the program. If it does, it will ask you which partition to connect to, then try C: (must be letter and colon). If it connects to C:, then it will ask you how much to expand it. In your screenshot, 548000 is not a valid expansion amount, as you don't have 548GB to expand into. So, when it asks for size to expand, put in 56150, which according to your other screenshot is the amount you have in Unallocated Space (56.150MB).
If this does not work, you can use a Server 2008, Windows Vista, or Windows 7 DVD. If you don't have one, then you will need to get something like Acronis to do it. I've seen ExtPart not work a time or two before, but not sure why.
EDIT: Sorry, your screen shot shows 56.150GB not MB :) But when you put in that amount to ExtPart, it wants it in MB, so you would put 56150.
theflash1932
9 Legend
•
16.3K Posts
0
March 3rd, 2010 10:00
I'm glad Acronis did fine ... like I said, I've seen issues a couple of times with ExtPart when it seems it should work, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what causes it not to.
About the E: drive thing - I didn't exactly follow what you wanted to do with that, but remember that the array we created with the extra space from the hard drives - by creating the new array - is physically separated from the other space, so Windows cannot join them together. I don't know if they answers that question, as I didn't really understand it :)
The 2800 is pre-SATA/SAS so there is no way to "convert" it to use a SAS drive without seriously modifying the chassis/system (if it is even possible). You can however, attach external SAS storage through a RAID controller like the PERC 5/E.
CraigCole2010
5 Posts
0
March 3rd, 2010 10:00
Good news!!
Acronis Disk Director (server version) did the trick! It allowed me to extend the OS partition to the space that was vacated when I deleted the "E Drive" partition from Virtual Disk 1!! I now have the OS on an 68GB partiton, and the "E Drive" is setup on a new Virtual disk (Virtual Disk 3) on a 68GB Partition!!
I would have rather had the E drive on another partition on the existing virtual disk (I don't know why), but I cannot seem to make that happen. It really doesn't seem to matter.
I was unable to make the tool built into the Windows 7 disc work, because I could not get enough free space on the original OS partition to make it work!! Luckily Disk Director only needed about 100MB.
EXTPART still does not recognize my C: drive.
Now the bad news: My 300 GB drives arrived - I bought them on eBay - and they are Serial Attached SCSI. *UGH*
Is there any adapter or drive tray out there that will make an SAS drive work with the existing backplane in the Poweredge 2800? Should I start a new thread for this question?