ZippoWindproof
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SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Hello,

I've installed on my PE1950 III two drives in SAS 6/iR Integrated (embedded).

First one is SAS 73GB 15k which uses 3Gbps and second one is Samsung 840 EVO 250GB (ssd). I know, that these SSD's are not supported by Dell, however it works fine, just one problem: I am having Negotiated speed 1.50Gbps which should be 3Gbps (Maximum read rate I am getting from tests is ~150MB/s, this SSD supports up to 500MB/s).

I did not install interposer on SATA disk, while mixing it with SAS hdd on the controller. Could interposer solve the problem and let me use whole 3Gbps of the channel? I have unused interposers at home, but asking, if it is worth going to the datacenter and placing one on the SATA.

Thanks in advance!

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Moderator
Moderator

RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Hello

Yes, SSDs are not officially supported on the SAS 6/iR.

I happen to be running a similar configuration on my home desktop system. I hadn't even noticed that my 840 EVO had negotiated to 1.5.

I booted into the SAS 6 controller BIOS and indeed the 840 negotiated to 1.5. I am running my OS on the 250GB 840 EVO and have 2x1TB SATA drives in a RAID 0 for data. The SATA drives are at 3.0.

I installed the latest Samsung Magician software: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/samsungssd/downloads.html and used it to update the EVO to the latest firmware. I restarted and booted back into the controller BIOS with no change. It was still negotiating to 1.5.

I then stole an interposer from one of my 2950 servers and attached it to the 840 EVO. I booted back into the controller BIOS and it is now negotiating to 3.0, so it would appear that an interposer will allow it to negotiate link speed properly.

Thanks

Daniel Mysinger
Dell EMC, Enterprise Engineer

Get support on Twitter @DellCaresPRO

tolga_c
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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Hi there,

I was experiencing the same problem as you guys. First of all, I'm a hobby developer and not a multi-million dollar enterprise, so therefore I don't and cannot throw money at problems. If you're a multi-million dollar enterprise, this solution is not for you. Buy certified hardware and use certified software.

While I was already prepared for using SATA II for my Samsung 830 SSDs instead of SATA III (hardware limitation), I was not expecting SATA I. I'm not gonna sacrifice 50% performance, just because SAS 6iR negotiates extremely conservative speeds with non-certified drives (software limitation or unfair marketing strategies - decide for yourself).

I've been using these drives for years in SATA II environments without any problems. Also, I don't expect running them at the same speed in conjunction with the SAS 6iR. To me, it's just a form of unfair marketing strategy, in order to sell own, overpriced SSDs. IANAL and I don't know, whether this is okay in the US. But here in Europe / Germany, you can easily get *** for artificially limiting other vendors products, just to sell yours. There is no technical background for doing so - in my opinion.

Therefore, I've decided to share with you, how I've managed to run my non-Dell SSDs at 3Gbps instead of 1.5Gbps. No need for interposers or other weird stuff. Why would you need interposers for non-Dell SATA drives, if Dell's SATA drives are working fine without? Just software - the same way, Dell has limited your drives to run at lower speeds.

My setup: I'm using a Dell R410 with an integrated SAS 6iR, 4 drive hotplug chassis. Btw.: I cannot buy interposers for hotplug drive caddies seperately and would need to waste big money on them.

Here is a picture of proof: drive.google.com/folderview;usp=sharing

You will need a Linux environment - I have used CentOS 7. You will also need lsiutil 1.62. Fire up that utility, select SAS 6iR and enter option 13. Here, you will be able to set up a minimum and maximum speed for your ports, individually. Just set up 3.0Gbps as minimum speed for all your active ports, leave the rest at default parameters. Your result should look like this:

drive.google.com/.../view

After a restart you can finally have fun with your non-certified drives at 3Gbps. No need for further hardware or further costs.

Cheers,

Tolga

Vadzim
1 Copper

RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Thank you, Tolga, very much for this hint!

LSI.com is down now.

I've found lsiutil for many OSes at http://www.dzhang.com/blog/2013/03/22/where-to-get-download-lsiutil.

I works under Windows too.

It helped in my case to fix negotiated link speed 1.5 Gbps with Samsung 850 EVO SSD and LSI Logic SAS3444E HBA based on LSI 1068E controller.

No need for full reboot. It's sufficient to reset port via 99 command in lsiutil. 

15 Replies
Moderator
Moderator

RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

Jump to solution

Hello

Yes, SSDs are not officially supported on the SAS 6/iR.

I happen to be running a similar configuration on my home desktop system. I hadn't even noticed that my 840 EVO had negotiated to 1.5.

I booted into the SAS 6 controller BIOS and indeed the 840 negotiated to 1.5. I am running my OS on the 250GB 840 EVO and have 2x1TB SATA drives in a RAID 0 for data. The SATA drives are at 3.0.

I installed the latest Samsung Magician software: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/samsungssd/downloads.html and used it to update the EVO to the latest firmware. I restarted and booted back into the controller BIOS with no change. It was still negotiating to 1.5.

I then stole an interposer from one of my 2950 servers and attached it to the 840 EVO. I booted back into the controller BIOS and it is now negotiating to 3.0, so it would appear that an interposer will allow it to negotiate link speed properly.

Thanks

Daniel Mysinger
Dell EMC, Enterprise Engineer

Get support on Twitter @DellCaresPRO

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ZippoWindproof
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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Thanks a lot for your great job!

I really appreciate that! emoticon.Smile.title

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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Hi Daniel,

I have a Dell T7500 (SAS 6/iR) and tried installing 2 Samsung 840 EVOs in RAID 0. I am not an IT specialist so it took some time to understand why the read/write performance was only ~250Mbps. I expected to see double that with SATA 2 in RAID 0 (2 x 300Mbps).

Finally I figured out that  the SSDs negotiate at 1.5 (SATA 1) while my backup HDD negotiates at 3 (SATA 2).

I tried updating firmware, BIOS, etc. and had practically given up on finding a solution until you mentioned interposers, which I hadn't heard of before. A bit of internet searching led me to find this:

'Dell Precision T7500 SAS to SATA Interposer Board Converter M199P'

Is this the correct part (it costs $9!) or do I need something else? How do I connect it up?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Brad.

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mtahir1
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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Hi Brad,

The MP199P is a special board with a temperature sensor - one side plugs into your drive and the other side into the HDD_Temp connector on the board. The idea is that the Hard Drive fan (which sits between the cages, underneath the PSU) will respond to the temperature reported by the sensor and so keep the drives cool if the temperature hits a certain threshold. I've just got one of these and I'm testing it but I haven't seen the Hard Drive fan change speed yet.

What you want is a standard Dell Interposer board as shown here: www.amazon.com/.../B00E0OFHM8. All you do is plug the Interposer Board into your hard drive connector, plug in the power connect into the board and plug in your SAS data cable which will run from one of your 4 SAS connectors to the Interposer Board.

I presume you've got your SSD in one of those internal cages? You'll notice the 4 power connectors that are already there. The Interposer Board is there to allow SATA drives e.g. your SSD SATA drives, to plug to plug into a SAS Controller - the SAS 6/ir in your case (I also have  T7500). Here's a more detailed explanation:

"The Interposer adds a lot of functionality to the drive. The primary function of the Interposer is redundant pathing. SATA has a single path, and SAS has a dual path. The Interposer adds a second path for active redundancy. It also allows the SATA drive to use the same signaling as a SAS. The Interposer will reduce spin-up delays, and there is improved error recovery and logging. It also adds the capability to assign the drive to multiple hosts."

I hope that helps.

Regards

Mohammed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://dreamvalley.net

System Specs:

Dell T7500 with Dual, 6-Core Intel Xeon X5690 3.72GHz (Turbo Mode) | Triple-Channel 48GB 1333MHz DDR3 EEC FBDIMM | 3GB nVidia Quadro K4000 | 3 x 600GB 15.7K RPM SAS(6Gb/s) Drives as RAID0 on Dell PERC 6 RAID card for Video | 2TB WD Caviar Green SATA3(6Gb/s) for RAID0 Backup | 2TB WD Caviar Black SATA3(6Gb/s) for Rendering | 750GB WD Caviar Black SATA3(6Gb/s) for OS | ADS PYRO 64-Bit PCI-X IEEE 1394a Card | Fresco Logic PCIe USB3 Card

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tolga_c
1 Nickel

RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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Hi there,

I was experiencing the same problem as you guys. First of all, I'm a hobby developer and not a multi-million dollar enterprise, so therefore I don't and cannot throw money at problems. If you're a multi-million dollar enterprise, this solution is not for you. Buy certified hardware and use certified software.

While I was already prepared for using SATA II for my Samsung 830 SSDs instead of SATA III (hardware limitation), I was not expecting SATA I. I'm not gonna sacrifice 50% performance, just because SAS 6iR negotiates extremely conservative speeds with non-certified drives (software limitation or unfair marketing strategies - decide for yourself).

I've been using these drives for years in SATA II environments without any problems. Also, I don't expect running them at the same speed in conjunction with the SAS 6iR. To me, it's just a form of unfair marketing strategy, in order to sell own, overpriced SSDs. IANAL and I don't know, whether this is okay in the US. But here in Europe / Germany, you can easily get *** for artificially limiting other vendors products, just to sell yours. There is no technical background for doing so - in my opinion.

Therefore, I've decided to share with you, how I've managed to run my non-Dell SSDs at 3Gbps instead of 1.5Gbps. No need for interposers or other weird stuff. Why would you need interposers for non-Dell SATA drives, if Dell's SATA drives are working fine without? Just software - the same way, Dell has limited your drives to run at lower speeds.

My setup: I'm using a Dell R410 with an integrated SAS 6iR, 4 drive hotplug chassis. Btw.: I cannot buy interposers for hotplug drive caddies seperately and would need to waste big money on them.

Here is a picture of proof: drive.google.com/folderview;usp=sharing

You will need a Linux environment - I have used CentOS 7. You will also need lsiutil 1.62. Fire up that utility, select SAS 6iR and enter option 13. Here, you will be able to set up a minimum and maximum speed for your ports, individually. Just set up 3.0Gbps as minimum speed for all your active ports, leave the rest at default parameters. Your result should look like this:

drive.google.com/.../view

After a restart you can finally have fun with your non-certified drives at 3Gbps. No need for further hardware or further costs.

Cheers,

Tolga

tolga_c
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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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multi-post - sorry for that

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tolga_c
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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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multi-post

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tolga_c
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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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multi-post

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tolga_c
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RE: SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950

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multi-post

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