m17 R3, docking

Question

Hey all,

I have a couple of questions about docking for the M17 R3. I bought this laptop because I was travelling a lot last year but am now back at home and I want to hook the laptop up to peripherals, i.e. a screen, a keyboard and a mouse at a minimum.

First, I have seen conflicting information on whether the Dell Thunderbolt dock works and whether it provides enough power. Is anyone able to confirm whether this works for my model or whether there are other solutions?

Second, I am having issues with connecting an external monitor. I connected my monitor via the HDMI port (HDMI to HDMI) but the monitor keeps telling me that no signal is detected. At the same time, the monitor does show up in my Nvidia Control Panel and I do get the sound notification whenever the monitor is connected. The monitor in question is a Asus BenQ xl2420t and it works just fine with my home computer.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

jphughan · Accepted Answer

@Mermaid Looking at the Setup and Specifications document for the M17 R3 on the Dell Support site, it appears that the system can come with 130W, 180W, 240W, or 330W power adapters, likely based on the CPU and GPU combination selected. Some docks can supply up to 130W of power over USB-C/TB3 to certain Dell systems, such as certain XPS and Precision systems. But I have not seen that support implemented on any consumer-oriented product lines, i.e. Inspiron and Alienware systems. And if your system is designed for more power than 130W, then the dock definitely won't power the system, at least not optimally. Dell has one dock that connects to dual USB-C ports and can supply up to 210W, but that is designed specifically for the Precision 7000 Series systems, and that dual connector operating mode requires firmware-level support on the system side that I have not seen implemented on other systems, even systems that have dual USB-C/TB3 ports. So I wouldn't count on that option either.

In terms of whether the dock will work for things other than power, the basic functionality of the dock should. That said, Dell doesn't officially certify any of their docks as compatible with any of their Alienware systems. The power issue is likely part of it, but you might also find that certain extra features of the dock don't work either, such as the ability to use the Power button on the dock to control the system, PXE boot, MAC Address Passthrough, and possibly the ability to update the dock's firmware. The first three items require firmware-level support on the system side that Dell does not seem to have implemented on their consumer models (even Power button support, annoyingly), and I'm not certain about the firmware update. On older Dell docks, the dock firmware update required a reboot and ran during startup, like a BIOS update, and therefore required special system support. I'm not sure if that's true of the WD19 models though. All that said, if the dock won't power the attached system, you might decide it makes more sense from a cost standpoint to simply buy a USB hub for your peripherals and then connect your display(s) either directly or through a device like an MST hub or TB3 to Dual DP adapter.

As for the HDMI display, I assume you've confirmed that the display is set to its HDMI input? If so and you're still not seeing a picture, try a different cable even if you've tested that cable successfully with another system. If you have a borderline cable, sometimes different HDMI chipsets on either end of the cable will operate differently. I just helped someone here who was stuck at 4K 30 Hz when using their display through a Dell dock even thought the dock should have provided 4K 60 Hz and the same display and cable allowed 4K 60 Hz when connected directly to the system rather than through the dock. He swapped the cable, and suddenly 4K 60 Hz worked through the dock too.

jphughan · Accepted Answer

@Mermaid Those HP displays appear to be 2560x1440 60 Hz displays. In that case, any Thunderbolt 3 dock with two DisplayPort outputs will run that setup, including the Dell WD19TB(S). But if you want to connect the AV receiver as well, then the way to do that through the WD19TB(S) alongside your dual 1440p displays will depend on whether the M17 R3 uses DP 1.2/HBR2 or DP 1.4/HB3 over Thunderbolt 3. If it's an HBR2 system, you'll want to connect the AV receiver to the dock's downstream TB3 port using a USB-C to HDMI dongle. If it's an HBR3 system, you can just use the built-in HDMI output. The difference has to do with how the dock itself allocates video bandwidth across its ports, which varies based on the DisplayPort revision supported by the attached system, and I'm not sure which one the M17 R3 uses.

Alternatively, if you're not too worried about cables, you could just do this:

Get a USB-C to DisplayPort cable for one of your HP displays
Get a Mini-DisplayPort to DisplayPort cable for your other HP display
Use your system's HDMI output for your AV receiver

Mermaid · Answer

Hey jphughan, thanks for that, very helpful.

I have a 330W charger, likely down to the system configuration (i9-10980HK & RTX 2080 Super), so I suppose that the Thunderbolt is not going to work? Do I understand correctly that, if I want to ensure the basic functionality, i.e. a keyboard, a mouse and a monitor, then my best bet would be to use a USB hub (as well as a USB converter for the monitor)?

Re the monitor, I have tried different inputs. My monitor has two HDMI ports. I have tried both and have been swapping around the input in the console too. I will buy another HDMI cable and see if that changes anything. The cable I am currently using is one that I used to connect my computer to my amplifier. I previously connected the monitor to my desktop via DP but my laptop does not have this port and I do not have any other HDMI cables at home.

jphughan · Answer

@Mermaid Happy to help. 330W is way beyond what USB-C/TB3 can handle. That doesn't mean a Thunderbolt dock can't be used. But it does mean that you shouldn't rely on it to supply power. You'll want to keep the system's own power adapter directly connected as well. But that of course means that the value proposition of a dock is a bit lower.

In terms of the USB hub, I would absolutely NOT suggest connecting your displays through a USB adapter. Since USB-A "regular USB" ports don't natively support video output like USB-C can, typical USB display adapters rely on "indirect display" technology such as DisplayLink -- not to be confused with DisplayPort -- which can introduce a ton of drawbacks, especially in gaming scenarios. But a USB hub could be useful for connecting everything except displays. And speaking of displays, while your system doesn't have a full-size DP output, that small port directly beside the system's HDMI output is a Mini-DisplayPort output, and Mini-DisplayPort to DisplayPort adapters and cables aren't hard to find. In fact if you ever get a gaming display that supports NVIDIA G-Sync, you'll likely be required to use native DisplayPort signaling if you want to use that feature. (NVIDIA recently launched a version of G-Sync that only works on 16 Series and above GPUs and certain LG OLED TVs, which uses HDMI, but I'm pretty sure that's just a rebrand of HDMI VRR, not "traditional" G-Sync.) So if you're considering another cable anyway, you could try Mini-DisplayPort to DisplayPort instead if you prefer.

Mermaid · Answer

Hi jp, once again, many thanks.

I bought a new HDMI cable yesterday and the screen now works fine, so I suppose that was the faulty part.

It didn't occur to me that I could dock with a separate power cable (I have previously only docked using my Surface and that one connects via the power port). I understand that the Thunderbolt docks via USB-C. Would that work for the purposes of running multiple monitors? I think that, as it stands, I will want to plug in my amplifier via HMDI and connect one or maybe two monitors via whatever is left over - DP, min-DP or HDMI.

jphughan · Answer

@Mermaid Yes, you can definitely plug into a docking station that is capable of providing power while still keeping the system's own power adapter directly connected as well. In fact in the early days of the Precision 7000 Series systems, Dell specifically recommended doing that because they didn't have a USB-C/TB3 dock capable of providing the amount of power those systems required. (They eventually came out with docks that could supply up to 210W by connecting to two USB-C/TB3 ports on those systems.) Yes, you can use a Thunderbolt dock to drive multiple displays, at least up to dual 4K 60 Hz or triple QHD 60 Hz. But once again, I guess it depends on what your priorities are and how much you're willing to spend to get there. A Thunderbolt dock will consolidate a bunch of peripherals down to a single cable, but you'll be spending some money on a high wattage power adapter for that dock that you won't really be using with your specific system. Another option would be a TB3 to Dual DisplayPort adapter, but that of course ONLY handles displays, so you'd need another solution for USB, which means another cable for a USB hub.

I'm not sure what you mean by plugging in your amplifier through HDMI. If you're referring to the Alienware Graphics Amplifier, that connects to a proprietary port on your system, not HDMI. Or if you meant you want to use your HDMI output to connect to an A/V Receiver, then that makes sense. And from there, you'd still have Mini-DisplayPort and USB-C available for displays. If you only need to connect two additional displays and don't care so much about cable consolidation, you could just use a Mini-DisplayPort to DisplayPort cable and then a USB-C to DisplayPort cable for your other displays -- very inexpensive and completely effective.

Mermaid · Answer

Hey jp, thanks a bunch once again.

Can you please clarify what you mean by: "but you'll be spending some money on a high wattage power adapter for that dock that you won't really be using with your specific system". I do not understand the part about the high wattage power adapter. Do you mean that this will simply be an expensive solution given that I will still rely on my existing charger to power the computer? Or do you mean that I need to buy an additional power adapter for the dock?

Re the amplifier - correct. I am using a Yamaha RX-V667 receiver to connect to my Bose 5.1 sound system. The receiver is connected to my desktop via a HDMI cable.

To conclude: as I currently understand, my laptop will remain plugged in using its regular power brick. I will then connect a dock to it via USB-C. The dock will contain a couple of USB ports for my mouse and keyboard, at least one HDMI port (for my AV receiver) and a minimum of 1 DP (ideally two) for screen(s). With this solution, power should not be an issue as my laptop will remain plugged in via its regular charger and the screens and the amplifier will be plugged to the sockets separately.

Does the above make sense, or am I missing something? Looking at docks on Amazon, I can see that they range from around £50 to £300, which I am fine with. I think that the main difference in the price is wattage on the power? This kind of goes back to my first question - will practically any dock do given the conclusion I set out above?

Much appreciated.

jphughan · Answer

@Mermaid Yes, you've got the right idea. For example, the WD19TB comes with a 180W power adapter because it's designed to provide up to 130W to the attached system. But you won't need any of that power for your system, so a good chunk of the WD19TB's total cost is going toward a power adapter where you won't be using most of its capacity. But most USB-C/TB3 docks are designed to provide at least some amount of power to the attached systems, so that will be unavoidable to a certain extent.

If you want to connect your AV receiver and displays to a dock, then the feasibility of that will depend on the resolution(s) and refresh rate(s) of the displays and receiver-attached TV you want to use, and which ones you'll want to use simultaneously. Typically even with a TB3 dock you'll be limited to dual 4K 60 Hz or triple QHD 60 Hz. Regular USB-C, non-Thunderbolt docks would be much more limited than that. But if what's achievable through a TB3 dock is sufficient for what you plan to run, then considering that power isn't an issue, yes you should definitely have options. But not all docks are created equal. As I said, some are USB-C rather than TB3. There are other docks that use "indirect display" technology called DisplayLink (not to be confused with DisplayPort) rather than tapping into a native GPU interface, which is definitely not ideal. Dell's Dxxxx dock models work this way, for example.

Mermaid · Answer

Hey jp, thanks a bunch once again. I have sort of got stuck on this as I have not been able to find what I think would be the correct dock for me.

I am currently using a 144hz Asus monitor (Benq xl2420t). However, I am not quite happy with the colour scheme and, as I understand, I will not be getting 144hz via the dock anyway? So, I am thinking about swapping over to my other monitors - I have two spare HP ZR2740w's at home, which provide much better colour quality. However, these are DP (and DVI) only, so hence the need for the two DP ports. Yet, I will still need a HDMI port for my AV receiver. Appreciate that you have helped me tons already, but are you able to recommend me a dock that fits the above criteria without compromising performance? I am not too fussed about USBs as I can probably just plug my mouse and keyboard into my computer.

Mermaid · Answer

Hey jp, you're right, it seemed most logical to simply get mDP to DP and USB-C to DP cables and connect the receiver via HDMI. I ordered the cables yesterday and just set everything up now - so far it seems to be working like clockwork! Many thanks again for your help with this - wouldn't have been able to figure it out on my own!

jphughan · Answer

@Mermaid  Excellent! Happy to help, and glad to hear you’ve got a working solution that you’re happy with.

leosco · Answer

Thankfully, I've had no trouble with my docking setup so far. I bought my laptop about two months ago; I'm using this dock and have been able to get up to 1440p/120hz on my Samsung G5 monitor via Display Port. Unfortunately, as mentioned earlier in this thread, I could not find a dock to provide nearly enough power to the laptop, which requires a 330W supply. The workaround is to simply use your 330W brick for dedicated power and the Thunderbolt will only transfer data for the display and other peripherals to work. The laptop does get quite hot when gaming with the lid closed, so I recommend putting it on a porous elevated surface like a laptop stand or better yet, ones with a built-in cooling fan which work very well. Hope this helps, enjoy your Alienware!

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m17 R3, docking

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