Have you disabled ndmp service on the datamover yet? If not, you need to do this first if you are trying to backup cifs share directly over network. You do this under your data mover drop down on the celerra manager, click on security and then network services. You will see the NDMP service to disable. Unfortunately it requires the datamover to be rebooted.
I have found performance using this method to be half of what I get using windows server with agent. NDMP performance on the other hand using direct fiber connections is very fast.
There should be no need to turn off the NDMP service on the datamover. For a CIFS based backup, from the datamover point of view it is only the same as any standard user reading files, it just happens to be the backup application doing the reading. Thus NDMP is not involved at all so it makes no difference whether the NDMP service is available or not.
I would talk to Symantec support on that to verify all the Backup Exec services etc are running as the correct user. If you can confirm the user can manually access the share and files then there is no reason Backup Exec should not be able to do the same from the Celerra's point of view. You can test accessing it manually by mapping the share to a network drive in Windows Explorer, and use 'connect as' to pick the user you want to test.
backup exec agent runs on port 10000 so by default symantec will try to connect to the port looking for the agent. You can either change the default port (have to do it for all symantec agents) or disable NDMP. I don't think it's the issue here but we had this problem a couple of years ago.
It is so strange, I spoke about your situation with CIFS and BE2010. I have 2 BE intallation and all is working by default, with some tune on Celera. I just add backup_username_user to Celera with root (I no it is unsecured!!!) and make BE job under this account, also don`t forget to select options about users share within BE-Options-Security tab. All is working fine. Each job finished ok with warning about "BE agent is not installed" but this is ok.
Be ready to another problem, very very slow data backup, in my situation it is 11-12 mb sec. Currently I have 350Gb data and it takes near 10 hours, but after full data migration I will have 4tb and ... simple calculation make 100 hours for full backup. Perfectly, EMC the best.
Just read data from EMC near 20mb/sec. Very very slow.
p.s. We are using HP MSL6060 with 2 LTO3 drives connected by SCSI.
p.p.s. or try to add backup_username_user on CIFS server through Computer management and add him to Admins or backup group. I have both sollution and I don`t know which working, I think this.
I backup close to 6TB via NDMP in 35 hours every weekend - roughly 2775 MB/min - and this is a 3-way (so it is called apparently) backup where the data comes across the network...with BE 12.5.
You will run across people that say the only way to backup the Celerra is to direct-attach the tape drive...don't listen to them! While this would probably be faster, it can be done to a SCSI attached drive on your BE server. I'm hoping to trim this down when I get a chance to get compressed backups in the newer DART code - but everyone keeps telling me to wait for Flare 30 and the DART that'll support it, of course, so I've been in a holding pattern ...
The NDMP license for BE is not that expensive and is easy to set up.
NDMP is not good for us, because only one of 4 locations having Celera. In case with NDMP backup we can`t restore data within other location. But, if we can`t make CIFS backup better NDMP will be one way for us.
I have test server with FC adapter and SCSI adapter. Could you please to help me draw backup scheme and settings, I hope I can get NDMP license code for test NDMP backup.
I backup close to 6TB via NDMP in 35 hours every weekend - roughly 2775 MB/min - and this is a 3-way (so it is called apparently) backup where the data comes across the network...with BE 12.5.
is that one NDMP stream ? I could get 4 concurrent streams to pretty much saturate my 1G network pipe (3-way NDMP to TSM). Once we got fiber connectivity we switched to "true" NDMP and get around 160MB/s for 4 concurrent streams.
It's a single job and I could probably use a new backup server - it is also backing up other "things" during this time. Networker and Tivoli are better at streaming the backups - you are limited to the number of tape drives as far as "streams" go with BE. I put all of the NDMP backups in a single job so the other drive would be available to service the other weekend backups.
For now, this is good enough for me. It is far better than CIFS-based backups for sure.
The good news is there are many options. The bad news is there are many options.
I have documented the two methods using backup exec and our tape library.
The following is a method for configuring backup exec with a Spectra Logic T120 tape library for backup of a Celerra using ndmp and for use in ongoing backups over the network of windows based servers using the backup exec windows agents. This information can be used for other tape libraries as well although the direct attach method (Method 1 below) would require fibre connected tape libraries as opposed to scsi or SAS libraries.
Notice: Both methods allow continued backup of windows server and Celerra from same Backup Exec server using same tape library.
Configure NDMP account on Celerra
The ndmp service is running by default on the Celerra. If you want to test backing up CIFS shares over the network without using ndmp, you must stop the ndmp service and reboot the datamover (you then backup the celerra as if it were any type of NAS box). See http://seer.entsupport.symantec.com/docs/293652.htm
Likewise, the turn the service back on, the datamover must be rebooted again.
1. login to the control station as nasadmin (using SSH tool such as Putty)
(this assumes that account is being created on the datamover server_2 which is the main nas unit on a ns-120
You will be prompted with "USER ID". Put in 1000 for User ID and also 1000 for the Group ID: prompt that will come up. Just hit return on the Home Directory: prompt. Then enter a password for the account (between 6-8 characters)
Make your physical Connections
Choose one method below
Method 1 Fibre channel direct attach (this assumes a Spectra Logic T120 tape library which has Fibre channel drives)
1. Create a zone on a switch for at least 4 connections/ports (I used 5 because I have 2 fibre cards on my backup server)
2. Connect each of the Spectra Logic Drives to a Fibre Channel Switch.
3. Connect the Aux port on the Celerra (the port on Server_2) to the Fibre channel switch.
4. Connect Fibre(s) card on Backup server to switch (I had 2 fibre cards so connect )
Be sure you have link lights on all connections. Set port speed on cards if necessary. I only have 2 Gb switches so I had to set my 4gb fibre cards on the backup server to link at 2Gb, otherwise they did not link correctly. The tape drives and celerra aux port synched fine.
Method 2 NDMP over network (3-way)
This method allows you to backup over the network. The tape library remains connected directly to your backup server. THere is no fibre connection to the Aux port on the Celerra. You only need to configure the NDMP account (above) and then add the NDMPserver within backup exec (next step)
Add NDMP server to Backup Exec.
See the backup exec help for adding ndmp server. You navigate to devices and add NDMP server using one of the accessible network interfaces on the ndmp box. You can use an ip address or a FQDN for the server address.
Create Backup Job using NDMP method
When you create an NDMP job within backup exec, you must set options with the NDMP settings. For full backup, set the backup method in the EMC section and select Dump as the backup type. I also check the options to back up with integrated checkpoints(SnapSure) and the option to Enable File history. I do not select "Enable tape silvering"
NDMP performance measurements
Tests so far using a modest 250 GB data set consisting of mix of SAS and MSOffice type files (about half which was compressed via EMCs data deduplication/compression technology)
1. Test using Method 1 over direct fibre. Jobrate: 5723 MB/min
2. Test using Method 2
- with 1Gb connection: Jobrate: 5241 MB/min
- with 10GB connection (and jumbo frames): Jobrate: 5320 MB/mi
3. Earlier test on smaller set of data using direct fibre connection on data that had not been compressed: jobrate: 7018 MB/min
4. Earlier test of CIFS share backup using a direct CIFS without NDMP was getting poor performance. Something like jobrate: 1300 MB/min.
How are you computing / measuring these 11 MB/sec ? Have you tried running multiple jobs in parallel? You can try some Windows tuning on your backup server but LAN based backup will only get you so far. For more performance you need to use NDMP
I just finished first part of testing NDMP. So it is not so hard and it is not so easy. NDMP enabled, user added and first test job ok on 1GB link. Next time I tried to make Team interface. I have HP DL380G5 with 2 NICs, so make HP team addapter, link speed 2 gb. Test copy file from CIFS show me increase speed 2x up to 2100GB\min.
But when I try to make NDMP backup, BE (BackUp Exec 2010) did see NDMP server and all my action was failed. I tried to restart BE services, deleta and try to add NDMP server again, restart server. Nothing. Still does`t see NDMP. When I remove Team and back all to one NIC all is going on. Now BE see NDMP server.
Check your team settings - setting it to "network fault tolerance only" will only utilize one NIC but will give you switch/link redundancy. The default/autoconfig may not be working right with your switches. I think you can LACP to the server if you have both connections to a single switch (or stack) but your NDMP stream will only go to one NIC anyway in the majority (if not nearly all) configurations. If the NICs disable LSO or other TCP offloading when teamed you may be better off not teaming them at all though G5's aren't that old - check the documentation and in some instances newer PSP/drivers/firmware may introduce new features (i.e. TOE on teamed connections). PCIe network adapters with TOE can easily maintain 1Gbit of sustained network traffic (seen it years ago in Networker environments) but your mileage may vary based upon the specifics of what you are trying to "push", application capabilities, etc...
borninpa
40 Posts
1
July 28th, 2010 09:00
Have you disabled ndmp service on the datamover yet? If not, you need to do this first if you are trying to backup cifs share directly over network. You do this under your data mover drop down on the celerra manager, click on security and then network services. You will see the NDMP service to disable. Unfortunately it requires the datamover to be rebooted.
I have found performance using this method to be half of what I get using windows server with agent. NDMP performance on the other hand using direct fiber connections is very fast.
odonovan_kevin
33 Posts
0
July 29th, 2010 05:00
There should be no need to turn off the NDMP service on the datamover. For a CIFS based backup, from the datamover point of view it is only the same as any standard user reading files, it just happens to be the backup application doing the reading. Thus NDMP is not involved at all so it makes no difference whether the NDMP service is available or not.
I would talk to Symantec support on that to verify all the Backup Exec services etc are running as the correct user. If you can confirm the user can manually access the share and files then there is no reason Backup Exec should not be able to do the same from the Celerra's point of view. You can test accessing it manually by mapping the share to a network drive in Windows Explorer, and use 'connect as' to pick the user you want to test.
dynamox
9 Legend
•
20.4K Posts
0
July 29th, 2010 17:00
backup exec agent runs on port 10000 so by default symantec will try to connect to the port looking for the agent. You can either change the default port (have to do it for all symantec agents) or disable NDMP. I don't think it's the issue here but we had this problem a couple of years ago.
odonovan_kevin
33 Posts
0
July 30th, 2010 05:00
Coincidentally I got some information about this today. Here are the details I was sent, referring to Symantec's support site:
http://seer.entsupport.symantec.com/docs/293652.htm
Details:
To be able to backup NAS Shares without the NDMP (Network Data Management Protocol) Option with an EMC Filer, perform the steps listed below:
Disable NDMP on the EMC Data Mover by removing the following line from the /nas/server/slot_x/netd file:
ndmp port=10000
To activate the change afterward, reboot that Data Mover.
EMC Knowledge Base ID: emc158412
Andrey_ALexeev
19 Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 00:00
Hi Kevin,
It is so strange, I spoke about your situation with CIFS and BE2010. I have 2 BE intallation and all is working by default, with some tune on Celera. I just add backup_username_user to Celera with root (I no it is unsecured!!!) and make BE job under this account, also don`t forget to select options about users share within BE-Options-Security tab. All is working fine. Each job finished ok with warning about "BE agent is not installed" but this is ok.
Be ready to another problem, very very slow data backup, in my situation it is 11-12 mb sec. Currently I have 350Gb data and it takes near 10 hours, but after full data migration I will have 4tb and ... simple calculation make 100 hours for full backup. Perfectly, EMC the best.
Just read data from EMC near 20mb/sec. Very very slow.
p.s. We are using HP MSL6060 with 2 LTO3 drives connected by SCSI.
p.p.s. or try to add backup_username_user on CIFS server through Computer management and add him to Admins or backup group. I have both sollution and I don`t know which working, I think this.
dynamox
9 Legend
•
20.4K Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 05:00
Andrey,
have you considered NDMP ?
DanJost
190 Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 06:00
I backup close to 6TB via NDMP in 35 hours every weekend - roughly 2775 MB/min - and this is a 3-way (so it is called apparently) backup where the data comes across the network...with BE 12.5.
You will run across people that say the only way to backup the Celerra is to direct-attach the tape drive...don't listen to them! While this would probably be faster, it can be done to a SCSI attached drive on your BE server. I'm hoping to trim this down when I get a chance to get compressed backups in the newer DART code - but everyone keeps telling me to wait for Flare 30 and the DART that'll support it, of course, so I've been in a holding pattern ...
The NDMP license for BE is not that expensive and is easy to set up.
Dan
Andrey_ALexeev
19 Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 07:00
NDMP is not good for us, because only one of 4 locations having Celera. In case with NDMP backup we can`t restore data within other location. But, if we can`t make CIFS backup better NDMP will be one way for us.
I have test server with FC adapter and SCSI adapter. Could you please to help me draw backup scheme and settings, I hope I can get NDMP license code for test NDMP backup.
dynamox
9 Legend
•
20.4K Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 07:00
is that one NDMP stream ? I could get 4 concurrent streams to pretty much saturate my 1G network pipe (3-way NDMP to TSM). Once we got fiber connectivity we switched to "true" NDMP and get around 160MB/s for 4 concurrent streams.
DanJost
190 Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 07:00
It's a single job and I could probably use a new backup server - it is also backing up other "things" during this time. Networker and Tivoli are better at streaming the backups - you are limited to the number of tape drives as far as "streams" go with BE. I put all of the NDMP backups in a single job so the other drive would be available to service the other weekend backups.
For now, this is good enough for me. It is far better than CIFS-based backups for sure.
The good news is there are many options. The bad news is there are many options.
Dan
borninpa
40 Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 08:00
I have documented the two methods using backup exec and our tape library.
Andrey_ALexeev
19 Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 09:00
Thanks. I will try to test secondary method and make feedback with a results.
ral67_xyz
147 Posts
0
August 3rd, 2010 13:00
How are you computing / measuring these 11 MB/sec ? Have you tried running multiple jobs in parallel? You can try some Windows tuning on your backup server but LAN based backup will only get you so far. For more performance you need to use NDMP
Andrey_ALexeev
19 Posts
0
August 4th, 2010 07:00
Hi all,
I just finished first part of testing NDMP. So it is not so hard and it is not so easy. NDMP enabled, user added and first test job ok on 1GB link. Next time I tried to make Team interface. I have HP DL380G5 with 2 NICs, so make HP team addapter, link speed 2 gb. Test copy file from CIFS show me increase speed 2x up to 2100GB\min.
But when I try to make NDMP backup, BE (BackUp Exec 2010) did see NDMP server and all my action was failed. I tried to restart BE services, deleta and try to add NDMP server again, restart server. Nothing. Still does`t see NDMP. When I remove Team and back all to one NIC all is going on. Now BE see NDMP server.
DanJost
190 Posts
0
August 5th, 2010 06:00
Check your team settings - setting it to "network fault tolerance only" will only utilize one NIC but will give you switch/link redundancy. The default/autoconfig may not be working right with your switches. I think you can LACP to the server if you have both connections to a single switch (or stack) but your NDMP stream will only go to one NIC anyway in the majority (if not nearly all) configurations. If the NICs disable LSO or other TCP offloading when teamed you may be better off not teaming them at all though G5's aren't that old - check the documentation and in some instances newer PSP/drivers/firmware may introduce new features (i.e. TOE on teamed connections). PCIe network adapters with TOE can easily maintain 1Gbit of sustained network traffic (seen it years ago in Networker environments) but your mileage may vary based upon the specifics of what you are trying to "push", application capabilities, etc...
Dan