One year and counting

Tim,
You are talking about Dell here...you get a problem within the first 30days, you get it fixed within the first 30days or send it back no question about it. Don't even think of keeping a Dell that you are having problems with past the 30days, Dell support is awful(used to be great). Having said that and that is way past your 30days, some one else posted that re-installing should have fixed your DLL problems and that is correct, so what software have you installed that could have overwritten a DLL. What is consitent between the way it was shipped and now, do you keep re-installing the same stuff and causing the problem. I am afraid that this is a very time consuming issue to solve, you may have to re-install your OpSys many times to resolve it, each time running it for a while before installing the next item.

I have been having lots of problems with my Dell that is only a week old and although I think I have solved them it took 9 re-installs of Windows 2000 to do it. But I also already have the OK to send it back and won't hesitate if any other problems show up in the next 3 weeks.

Mike

Tim: Other than complaining what is your problem?

Your stats indicate you just joined Dell Talk today. You should have come here a year ago, but that is hindsight!

You say it is a dll problem, yet that would have been solved on the first reinstall of Windows & software.

How about listing details of your problem, describe your OS and ALL software you have installed as well as pertinent hardware.

I realize that is a long list, but you will get some help here by doing that.

Jim has the right idea here. DLL problems are usually the result of improper installations or uninstallations that have nothing to do with the hardware. The most well built machine on the planet is only going to be as good as the operator and the software he/she installs, and more mistakes get made with a new system than at any other time, because that's when all the software gets added. If you installed something that was bad to begin with (yes, there is such a thing as bad software...just ask AOL), you can hose just about everything else, from there on. Try installing it and not paying attention to shared files - mistake number two. Try "fixing" it without using the right methods - mistake number three. It gets worse from there, but without knowing what's on there, it would be pointless to try to guess what did it.



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"Annoy the boring."

Goonboy,

I don't disagree. When we suggested months ago that it could be the OS and requested another copy of Me, their answer was that they couldn't do that. Their lack of interest in doing anything but more and more troubleshooting, and the countless times where the next technician said the previous one did something wrong, really started to wear on us. All we want is a system that works and we have done everything and more that they have asked. They do nothing but stonewall and give us half-truths. Whether the replacement PC they agreed to send us in Oct. is really on its way is anyone's guess.

Tim

Jim,

About the 6th reformatting time, Dell had us remove the printer, we pulled out the sound card and modem, ran fdisk, we wrote a short assembly code program, so had just a bare-bones system. We installed Windows Me and Picture It Publishing. We chose PIP becuase, although we get DLL errors apparently at random, perhaps from help.dll, Internet Explorer.dll, or other programs that we haven't even accessed during a session, PIP was the easiest to check if we were any better off after reinstallation or not. Even this bare-bones attempt resulted in DLL file errors. (No AOL, no virus-scan, soundcard, modem or special printer driver.)

After the first reformatting, I did notice that after booting up, the available memory, which had been only at around 60% was now around 80%.

Our frustration is that Dell only wants to continue to troubleshoot. To what end? After replacing the RAM, motherboard, processor, and hard-drive, it would seem we don't have a hardware problem. Why our suggestion that it was the OS was not taken seriously is beyond me. Maybe to them the hard drive is more likely to cause this!

Anyway, if they would finally come through with the replacement, we at least could prove if it is the OS or not since they claim the replacement will not be loaded and we'll be back to using the original Me disk.

Tim

Mike,

Well, the first issues we saw were just the more typical Windows crashes, or at least that's how I interpreted them. Windows Me was new to me. Next, we saw our system not shutting down properly after being on AOL. We found the "solution" to this was the change from AOL 5.0 to 6.0. This did work for a couple months at least.

We went through reformats as Dell walked us through them. We even did one after we removed the sound card and modem and physically removed the printer, too. So, even the bare-bones system, reformatted following a procedure where we wrote about 6 lines of asssembly code, and did fdisk still caused DLL errors. We suggested that the OS disk might be bad and were essentially laughed at. (This by the same company whose supervisors tell you the problem is the CMOS after telling the same supervisor the motherboard was just replaced.)

To be honest, we are tired of dealing with them. Even the technician they sent, on his 3rd or 4th visit, reformatted with the same problems persisting.

We would calm down if they would come through with the replacement promised a month ago, but they won't give us consistent information about that, either.

Tim

Hi Tim,

A sample of some of the complete error messages can also be helpful... as well as knowing the frequency and timing of errors. A corrupt OS CD is very unlikely and the hardware replaced already would seem to rule out hardware as being the problem (you've basically had a new computer built for you)...

Can you give some sample errors?

Jim

Tim: You have given us a little more information but we have to extract everything by reading between the lines…

You keep referring to an un-named dll error. If you really expect anyone to help, you are going to have to be specific.

We gather you have ME and have replaced everything but the power cord. Likewise you have nearly worn out the CD reinstalling ME!

A couple of little things you mentioned: You said you have fdisked a couple of times. Since fdisk does absolutely nothing to clean a hd, are you referring to Format?

Also you said you wrote some lines of assembly code. Could you explain what you wrote and how you did it?

The removal of hardware during a reinstall is very, very good troubleshooting technique. Now some will want to blame everything on AOL and I agree it does tend to aggravate any preexisting condition. Personally I would have gone for a bare bones install to prove the OS. If it can’t work with the minimum of installed hardware/software, it isn’t going to get better by hanging more on it! Likewise I might have gotten a copy of Win98 or W2K just to see if it would make any difference.

The run around you are getting is sad and probably due to no one taking a real interest in getting this resolved. On the other hand, if you are not a forthcoming with Customer Service as you have been here, you can’t expect them to make the right guesses.

Jim,

There are multiple dll errors. PIP.dll caused dll error messages, Help.dll, Internet explorer.dll, MSxxx32 page faults to name a few. We have called Dell probably 40 times and given them all the details. We have sent them the faultlog.txt file for their viewing. The assembly code was typed in as they instructed, though that was a few rebuilds ago and I don't recall what was actually typed. The intent was to begin the rebuild with a "virgin" hard drive. In any event, the hard drive has since been replaced with no improvement.

We don't have much installed right now and only have one dll error message since we've just rebuild the system again recently per Dell tech support.

HPFIUI caused an invalid page fault in
module HPFINST.DLL at 016f:16810ce0.
Registers:
EAX=0000005b CS=016f EIP=16810ce0 EFLGS=00010202
EBX=0000005b SS=0177 ESP=0067dff0 EBP=825affff
ECX=0000005b DS=0177 ESI=0067e020 FS=1587
EDX=fffffffc ES=0177 EDI=81f31fdf GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8a 45 01 45 84 c0 75 b2 33 c0 5f 5e 5d 5b c3 5f
Stack dump:

I think our frustration is that we have given Dell all the details. Their technician was here and saw it for himself and couldn't help us and it seemed even he couldn't get tech support to help solve it.

T

Right now, very little is installed and so we have little reason to use the computer. This means we don't have much in our faultlog.txt file right now to share. One typical kind of fault is here:
HPFIUI caused an invalid page fault in
module HPFINST.DLL at 016f:16810ce0.
Registers:
EAX=0000005b CS=016f EIP=16810ce0 EFLGS=00010202
EBX=0000005b SS=0177 ESP=0067dff0 EBP=825affff
ECX=0000005b DS=0177 ESI=0067e020 FS=1587
EDX=fffffffc ES=0177 EDI=81f31fdf GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8a 45 01 45 84 c0 75 b2 33 c0 5f 5e 5d 5b c3 5f
Stack dump:

This is not the best example. Picture it Publishing will just about every time cause a PIP.DLL caused an error..... We also get many help.dll caused an error, Internet Explorer caused an error, etc. Right now PIP isn't installed. We have seen shoebox.dll caused an error as well. I recall a MSxxxx32.dll caused an error being common as well. One problem with tech service in my opinion is that they haven't been able to see the whole picture. They want to focus on a particular error and go after it. It sure seems they are all linked to me. I don't doubt the Dell process works when the system was working for a time then stopped working. The process doesn't seem very good in our case when the computer never worked right.

Tim: Well I responded to your original post in the hope of getting info from you so that someone smarter than me could help you. Frankly I do not know a quick fix for this…

The dll’s starting with “HP” are of course from your printer. I do know HP printers are not really plug & play and most require a specific install procedure BEFORE the printer is attached to the PC.

Picture it Publishing is fairly common but not really a ‘mainstream’ program like Excel or Word. I would not have used it as a test sample. BTW, I have never actually seen that program so it may be more solid than I think.

What I find troubling is that by chasing these dll’s we are really just treating symptoms. I feel that there is an underlying problem and the dll error messages are merely the symptoms.

If it were my PC, here is what I would do. Remove the printer, and do a format/reinstall. I would stop right there.

Clean up the fluff, use the standard desktop, no screens, themes or profiles. No standby/hibernate, AV, just pool table green background and mouse pointer that does not turn into a banana or something.

You should have a web browser at this point but install no other software or printer. When you boot up, Ctrl-Alt-Del should show a maximum of 4 items running.

Run it like this for several days, 24/7. Play the included games, use NotePad & WordPad. If it proves stable, then add your printer, following the install instructions to the letter. You can enter power management at this point, but standby/hibernate are no no’s! Personally I would never use a screensaver or even change the desktop background. It is your choice here, Plain and Stable or Cute and Un-stable…

If the printer proves stable, then add AOL (I assume that is what you use) but make sure you have the latest & greatest version. Also follow the install to the letter. NOTE, I haven’t put on AV yet, but with your experience in format/reinstall there is no real risk at this point…

If you encounter problems anywhere in these steps, STOP and get them resolved! Moving to the next step will only complicate the problem.

It is a tedious process, but it the only real way to do it.

..and then God rested on the Sabbath...

God@aol.com

Mind if I add my 2 cents n this forum? For your information have been in PC's from Win version 2.0 up to WinXP. I have had many a Printer, Scanners modems and every inbetween. And I have had my share of .dll problems over the year. I do not profess to be an expert or engineer. But I have been to the school of hard knox.

.dll files are nothing more that instruction files to direct someting to do something. It sounds like what is going on is the driver you are loading into the PC is over writing the original dll with its own version which is shared by other devises. This is pretty much where it begins. Then you are most likely adding and taking away confusing the issue further yet.

You are running Win2000 Right? Well at work i am currently running Win2000 and i am heavy into PC's I am a Professional Computer Aided Designer. i design Machines for a living using a PC. I have both an HP Plotter and a HP L5 Laser Printer and an HP All In One Bubble color printer All-In-One running off of my PC. Talking about a real possible .dll issue LOL.

Go into your bios setting and redirect your startup drives to launch your CD first, Hard Drive second and Floppy last. Reboot w/ Win2000 cd in the drive. Perform a complete reinstall. When it as acceppt to formatting of your drive. then allow the install to finish up. Once running Use the Windows default Printer HP drivers. It'll work, May not have alll the features yet but the printer will work. Hookup and install all your extra components one by one the same way. Once all is running and stable. start one at a time and install the propoer drivers for each unit you want. BE VERY CAREFUL you install only win 2000 drivers. Anything else such as Me. 98 ETC its all over and you'll need to go back to start.

Hope it helps. If I can be of any additional help just e-mail me.

Good Luck.

BTurpin111@aol.com

Dimension 4300
P4 1.6
512MB

Bill: Your 2 cents worth is more than welcome! As I admitted, I am over my head on this one.

Sadly, he is using ME and said he has had these problems for over a year in spite of multiple reformats.

You still have a pen plotter running????

Jim, Bill, et al,

Well, the replacement came today. It was pre-loaded with Me, Soundblaster Card, V90 Modem, and AOL 6.0. Guess what...we STILL suffer the same symptoms. I suppose it is safe to rule out our old hardware and Me disk now. But what can this be? The very first thing I did, mind you, still no printer or joystick or anything "New" installed, was to put in Norton AV off the new Dell Backup CD. It caused the following error:

**********************************************************************
Date 11/23/2001 Time 13:19
DELLBCKP caused an invalid page fault in
module KERNEL32.DLL at 018f:bff6a613.
Registers:
EAX=00000004 CS=018f EIP=bff6a613 EFLGS=00010213
EBX=00000000 SS=0197 ESP=0065f098 EBP=0065f0a8
ECX=81805028 DS=0197 ESI=81805000 FS=305f
EDX=000001c4 ES=0197 EDI=8180500c GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 03 25 fc ff ff 0f 3b 45 0c 0f 83 81 00 00 00
Stack dump:
ffffffff 00000000 000001c0 000000f8 0065f210 bff7068c 81805000 000001c4 00000000 bff77d92 000001c0 00000326 0000ffff 00003077 00004550 0005014c
**********************************************************************
After a restart, the installation went okay. I keep hearing that Me is not the problem. Isn't it likely at this point that there is some combination of software and hardware that just isn't going to get along? It feels this way. If we are now under a 30-day new warranty period, we won't make the mistake and not return this PC, but what are your thoughts about trying another OS? (Say, Win98 or Win2000) Are there good odds that one of these systems might do better for us? We are perplexed.

T