2007wfp - colour problems, am I being 'too picky' ?

Question

Hi folks.

I recently received a new 2007wfp, and I've been using it for a couple days checking things out.

I like a lot of things about it, but I do notice some issues, and I don't know if I should be concerned, or if I'm being too picky... this is the first LCD monitor I've owned, so I'm unsure of what kind of performance to expect out of it (being used to CRT).

I thought maybe if I list my "issues" someone could offer some advice/recommendations.

As mentioned, the monitor is a 2007wfp (rev A04). I'm using Windows XP, and my GPU is an AGP ATI x1950Pro, connecting to the monitor via DVI, set to monitors optimum resolution (1680x1050, 60hz)

1 - flickering - I notice a "flickering" kind of effect... almost like a fast, top-to-bottom "wave" at certain times, and it appears in the central region of the screen (Though it takes up a good 60% of the screens real estate). Most noticeable when I'm viewing a uniform medium grey background (though it is sometimes slightly noticeable on a mid-tone colour background). I also notice that the flickering is more noticeable, the lower I set my brightness. I've found the default 50 brightness to be too bright, but can't really drop lower than about 40 without the flickering being a major concern.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about it, as it isn't visible very often... EXCEPT I bought this monitor, in large part, to work well for my photo editing in Photoshop... and Photoshop happens to have a neutral grey background... so the flickering is a concern.

2 - colour uniformity - the right side of the screen seems to have a slightly warm (reddish) hue to it. If I view a neutral grey image that stretched across the entire screen.. on the left side and center, it appears neutral... on the right side it has a slight reddish tint.

Interestingly, when I view the viewing angle test image here: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/#angle it's the right half of the image that blends "properly", while on the left side, the 'lagom' text stands out from the background with a the letters having a reddish colour)

Even on this forum web page... the white background appears slightly reddish to the right of the message area.

3 - Colour banding... one of the first things I checked for was colour banding when viewing gradients. I find that if I have the Image Mode set to Multimedia or Gaming, I see very obvious colour banding. If I have image mode set to Desktop, then banding is very, very minimal. I assume this is "expected", but wanted to throw it out there to get feedback.

4 - Time used. While poking around, I went into the service menu to see what it was about (didn't change anything there though! lol) and noticed that the TIME USED listing was over 20 hours, and this was in the evening, a few hours after I received the monitor. Did Dell trick me and send me a used monitor that someone else returned? Or is there supposed to be some usage hours on the monitor, due to Dell's in-house testing or something?

Those are my primary concerns... I've read various messages online about people having issues with this monitor... yet even more messages about people being thrilled with the product.

I'm not sure if I'm just being overly picky... but the promary reason I wanted this monitor was to get a good, yet affordable monitor that would serve me well for photo viewing and editing... so being "picky" is in my nature. :)

Thanks in advance for any advice.

THe one good thing, I suppose, is that with the 3 year warranty, I've got lots of time to decide whether this monitor is defective or not.

Message Edited by keldorr on 01-22-2008 01:48 PM

gpro · Answer

Hi keldorr,
I've had a 2007WFP (LG.Philips S-IPS panel) for nearly two years. Connected via DVI to an old nVidia FX5200 card. Brightness at 40.

1 - flickering
This has been reported by others too, and not just with this monitor. I don't notice it, but I've read that some people are more sensitive to this than others. I'm not sure what the cause or solution is.

2 - colour uniformity
This has also been reported by a few others. My screen has a slight warm dirty yellowish caste extending one third of the way across from the left, and about one sixth of the way from the right. It is most noticeable on a white background. It annoys me sometimes but I decided to live with it because generally the color and viewing angles on this monitor are excellent.

That lagom.nl test is interesting. The letters consist of alternating one pixel green and magenta stripes on a neutral grey background;

green: RGB (186,255,0)
magenta: RGB (186.0.255)
grey: RGB (186,186,186)

the idea being I guess, that the green and magenta are blended subjectively to simulate something like RGB (186,127,127).

If I drag that image around my screen, the text blends in the center and is visible in the areas with the color caste. Maybe it is the opposite for you because your color caste is reddish. It really highlights the non-uniformity though, which I assume is due to the backlighting.

3 - Colour banding
The banding issue was fixed in Rev A02 by disabling ACC/ACM in Desktop mode only. In the other modes it is an inherent side-effect. It is explained here.

4 - Time used
Each monitor has different color presets in the service menu, so maybe they are tested at the factory. If they are turned on before they leave the factory it's probably a good thing :).

The Service Menu 'Time Used' records when power is plugged into the monitor regardless of whether the monitor is On or Off.

To see the actual Video On time -
* Turn the monitor off
* Press and hold the Menu & Minus buttons and press the Power button
* When the monitor powers on, let go of all three buttons
* Press the Minus button.

I think the 2007WFP is one of Dell's better monitors, especially for photo work. You might want to consider calibrating it - TFT Central has a good guide.

They also have instructions here to determine your panel type and manufacturer.

keldorr · Answer

Hi gpro, thanks for your reply.

Flickering... I've found somewhat of a bandaid solution... as it's most noticeable to me when using photoshop, due to the large neutral grey background, I changed the colour of that background to a lighter grey (but still neutral). The flickering is much less pronounced now.

Colour uniformity... I can probably live with it too, assuming it doesn't get worse.

Colour banding... thanks for the explanation. When I first used the monitor, I set it to Multimedia... assuming that would be most suitable for photo work... and I noticed horrible banding. Switching the Desktop, as I mentioned, cleared the problem.

Time Used... thanks for this explanation as well. I didn't realize that "plugged in time" was part of that reported time. That makes sense now, as I had the monitor plugged in for quite a long time before sitting down to use it.

Bottom line, you've reassured me that I didn't get a lemon (I hope) and my problems are more a simple reality of these LCD monitors.

I do love how clear and sharp this monitor is compared to the old, failing, CRT that it replaced for me. Comparatively, my old monitor looks like it's being viewed through dirty glasses.

And the viewing angle on the 2007WFP is great as well, which is important to me.

And as a bit of a test I played some Team Fortress 2 last night (a fast first-person shooter) and the monitor worked really well... no ghosting or artifacts at all.

I believe I have the LG S-IPS panel (RT803 in service menu)

So overall, I'm pleased... I was just "looking for perfection" :p

If anyone else has input though, I'd still like to hear it.

Also, as a side note, can someone point me to a link explaining the image modes on this monitor (Desktop/Multimedia/Gaming) ?

Message Edited by keldorr on 01-21-2008 08:24 AM

gpro · Answer

From that ACC/ACM document:
'Theme modes enable the end user to optimize the viewing experience by changing the corrections applied to an image based on the content or viewing conditions. For example, a sports theme mode might enhance blue and increase green saturation to better distinguish the action and players from the playing surface; a nature theme mode might increase the saturation on all colors to produce a more vibrant image.'

It looks to me like they are essentially color/contrast presets. For example, early television broadcast standards take into account that the viewer is most likely watching in a dimly lit room on a CRT TV. Movies are optimized for a darkened cinema. I imagine Multimedia mode compensates for this. It is not necessary to use the Display Modes though.

Enjoy your monitor. I think you will appreciate how good it is as you get accustomed to it (and compare it to other LCDs).

keldorr · Answer

Thanks... I just wondered what, specifically, the "optimizations" were for each mode... ie... does Gaming Mode boost brightness/saturation/etc? ...But really it doesn't matter . lol

Thanks again for your comments.

I will continue using the monitor for now, and see how badly the problems impact me, or if they do.

I don't want to go through a hassle of an exchange if I'm just being too fussy... and especially not if there's a chance the replacement will be similar, or worse.

On the other hand, I don't want to be too accepting of a defective product either, especially when I plan on doing photo work on it... $400Cnd isn't pocket change... and if my particular monitor isn't operating as well as it's supposed to, I'd like to know, so I can try to get one that is.

keldorr · Answer

Having used the monitor more last night, it's the non-uniformity of colour across the screen that bothers me the most, and makes me fear I've got a defective unit. I would appreciate any further help/advice anyone could offer.

I happened across a link here for "Color Problems on Flat Panel Monitor - Wizard ID: 1070" but the link to it (http://dsn.us.dell.com/DSNCR/DSNGateway?target=DecisionTree&action=decisionTree&objectID=4F2A418ABF8140B997FA24F998330A28) is broken, so I am not sure if that would provide me any help or not...?

One might recommend calibrating the monitor, but I don't think that's even really possible if the panel is not uniform.

Would what I'm seeing be grounds for a replacement?

And if so, could I feel confident that I'd receive a replacement that would perform better? Or would I be rolling the dice?

Message Edited by keldorr on 01-22-2008 10:12 AM

Somnio · Answer

Hi keldorr, whe're discussing the flickering issue here. So far seems related exclusively to the backlight (a fault or bad calibrated backlight inversor), and the only way to get rid of it is replacing or repairing the unit. Mac users are also on alert on their Cinema Displays, seems that something is wrong right out the panel factory.

keldorr · Answer

Thanks Somnio. I will check out that thread re: the flickering problem. Still interested in learning more about the colour uniformity (or lack thereof).

keldorr · Answer

This is just getting worse and worse it seems.

After using the monitor for a few days, seeing if I could 'get used' to the issues I'm having... I've noticed that my monitor (2007wfp A04) DOES appear to have gradient banding... but only when viewing grey-scale gradients.

Colour gradients seem fine, with minimal, if any, banding.

But white-grey-black gradients show clear banding. This is while using Desktop mode.

Any advice on what can be tweaked/checked?

Message Edited by keldorr on 01-24-2008 09:02 AM

gpro · Answer

how did you test? no color profiles nor adobe gamma loaded?

keldorr · Answer

The colour profile loaded is the default 2007WFP profile, and I don't have Adobe Gamma loaded (or any other calibrating/profiling software).

To "test" ... I just looked at gradients in Photoshop CS3. I wasn't specifically looking for banding, as it wasn't something I was concerned with... but I happened to draw a white-grey-black gradient and noticed the banding. I then repeated it several times and see it everytime the gradient goes through grey.

Colour-to-colour gradients look good, and colour-to-white gradients look good... but greyscale gradients, OR black-to-colour gradients show banding in the mid areas.

It's not HORRIBLE, but it's very visible.

I believe I'm going to call into Dell and see about getting a replacement.

THe more I use the monitor, the more the colour cast is a noticeable problem for me.

The "clincher" last night was when I had my wife look at some different images/webpages on the monitor and asked her if she saw anything odd about the view... it took her a moment, but then she noticed the red tinge too... and she's not picky with visual stuff... so I know it's not just my eyes playing tricks on me.

gpro · Answer

Your red tinge does sound excessive. I hope you have better luck with the replacement. Just for interest, can you try the gradient test here - say, the RGB/Gray (fullscreen) one? Can you also try it without the 2007WFP profile?

keldorr · Answer

Hrmm... well that was interesting.

I tried to remove the 2007wfp profile, and was greeted with an error message, that there was a problem disassociating the profile.

So, I temporarily added a new profile (sRGB), set it as default, then removed 2007WFP (worked that time), then removed sRGB, leaving no associated profiles.

I'm not sure quite what that does... as it seems to me that there HAS to always be a profile of some kind... I guess if none are listed it defaults to some standard...

Anyhoo... after I did that, my gradients all looked fine again, including greyscale.

I re-installed the 2007wfp profile (and removed/reinstalled it several times to see if the error occurred again... it didn't). And still, the gradients all look pretty good (other than it seems to go to "pure black" sooner than it should.. so it makes it look like a larger-than-should-be-there 'chunk' of black on one end,but only very, very minor banding, if at all).

Not sure what happened there.

Somehow the default profile got buggered up, but removing, and re-adding it, has given me smooth gradients again.

That said... as before, it's still the red tint on the right that is bothering me too much, and removing the profile didn't change that. After noticing the colour cast, I can't help but look at it all the time lol .

Being that I wanted the monitor mostly for photo work, a non-uniform color cast is a big issue... and would make calibration impossible.

I did call Dell, and (after struggling to figure out what button to push to get to monitor help LOL) got an exchange approved (based on flickering and colour cast).

I should have it by middle of next week, and will post the results. (crosses fingers it doesn't have more problems than my current one).

Message Edited by keldorr on 01-26-2008 04:10 PM

Somnio · Answer

Glad to hear the you resolved the color gradient issue.
About the red tint: usually, IPS panels do have a purple tint near the edges of the screen. In your case this color shadow is only on one of the edges?

Message Edited by Somnio on 01-26-2008 07:39 PM

gpro · Answer

Thanks for that - just wanted to take the profile and Photoshop out of the equation. Reducing brightness increases the black, or near black portion of gradients.

keldorr · Answer

Somnio,

Yes, the reddish colour tint is only visible on the right side of the screen... about 25% to 30% of the screen shows it.

On dark backgrounds it isn't noticeable. But on midtone-to-bright backgrounds it is quite obvious.

For example, if I view a mid-tone grey solid colour across the whole screen... the middle and left shows it as appearing neutral (including along the very edges), but the right section shows a "dirty" reddish/yellowish grey.

And in this website... the white background to the left of this message window appears true white. But the background to the right appears a light (VERY light) grey with a slight reddish tint.

I suppose it's actually possible that it's the colour on the right that is accurate, and the rest of the panel is showing an overly cool (bluish) colour... but I don't think so.

To my naked eye, the center and left area seem correct, while the right portion appears to have a warm colour tint.

I guess I'll know more once I receive my exchange, and compare.

To GPro, thanks for your help trying to troubleshoot.

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2007wfp - colour problems, am I being "too picky" ?

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