questions before buying 1704FP

Question

I don't have a Dimension. But I have been wanting to get a new LCD flat-screen monitor for a while now, since my current 17" CRT monitor does a really bad thing to my eyes. So I looked up the latest issue of Consumer Reports that evaluates computer monitors, and their June 2004 issue rates the DELL 1703FP in 3rd place. Since I have been getting these catalogs from DELL, I thought I might get this monitor. But I have some questions to ask about this product before I purchase it and DELL doesn't seem to have any way to answer them. Is there someone I can ask? An e-mail I can send? Can I write to that snail-mail address they give in their catalog and expect to get a response to these questions I have? Anyway, I thought I would try here.
These are question I have about the 1704FP which I saw listed in the catalog, since they don't seem to sell the 1703FP any more (and with snide remarks added in square brackets :)):

1. How does 1704FP differ from 1703FP? In Consumer Reports 1703FP was rated highly.

2. In Consumer Reports it says 1703FP has a 3-year warranty. Does 1704FP have a 3-year warrenty? [from reading catalog, I get the impression that you must purchase in order to get this information, which is like, I think I need to contact the Better Business Bureau]

3. Will this computer monitor run off of my graphics adapter and driver? My adapter is Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. Stealth 3D 2000 Pro Series. My driver is Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. v2.14 , 4.0.0 [Kindof important thing to know, don't you think? Whether your graphic card can correctly interface with it.]

4. What is the policy as far as non-working pixels is concerned? How many pixels need to be malfunctioning before it is considered damaged euqipment? 1? 2? 3? 5? 10?

5. What is the shipping cost and insurance cost I would need to pay on top of the $349 listed price? [Ah, here's where the internet merchants get to be really clever. You see, in order to find out how much you will be spending on the product you are interested in, you have to go through the motions of actually buying it. Could you imagine if, in a brick-and-mortar store, after asking the salesman how much you would need to spend to purchase the product you were interested in, he would say, "Oh you need to start to purchase it in order for us to give you that informatiion."]

6. It says the MAXIMUM resolution is 1280x1024. Now, I am used to using 1024x768. For a fixed-pixel monitor like these flat-panels are, I would think there would be NO WAY to use a resolution like 1024x768 on a 1280x1024 flat-screen monitor. Isn't that correct? [Maybe 640x512 by treating every cluster of 2x2 pixels as a single pixel, but who would want that? Of course, I suppose I could run at 1024x768 in the middle of the screen with a 128-pixel border, eh? Is that the way it would work? But that would kind of defeat the purpose of buying a 17" monitor, now wouldn't it.]

I'll tell you, I don't know HOW companies selling their products on the internet can expect people to plop down hundreds of dollars on products for which they can only see a little photograph and some nice sounding statements about it? Without finding out the nitty gtitty details of what you need to know in order to be able to use it (ok, DELL does give a fair amount of tech details). In a brick-and-mortar store, you get to see and inspect the actual thing you are thinking about purchasing, ask questions about it, maybe even try it out. But here on the internet, you are supposed to go, ok, I hope it will work.

By the way, on eBay DELL E173FP's are going for between $150 and $200! Wow, I wonder how much they differ from the monitor I am interested in, and why does it seem like people are trying to get rid of them (DELL's price has also been coming down every month). In Consumer Reports, the E172FP, which is the closest one listed, is rated 14th, which is why I wasn't interested in E17?FPs. But maybe I am just being silly?

mkelve · Answer

1) I cannot answer.

2) I cannot answer.

3) Yes, this monitor will coexist peacefully with your current video card.

4) 6 Dead Pixels are required for a replacement monitor after the initial 21-day period. However, if you are within a 21-day period since the purcahse of the monitor, you can request a refund or replacement for any/no reason at all.

5) Between us, you can purchase the 1905!! (19 inch ultrasharp) monitor at $315, details here: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?catid=18&threadid=452121&highlight_key=y&keyword1=dell

6) Yes, this is correct. With LCD's, if you do not use the native resolution you will not attain an optimum picture (unless you have the 128-pixel border.)

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Message Edited by mkelve on 03-26-2005 04:14 AM

SR45 · Answer

# 2.....If you purchase the monitor separately, you will have the 3 year warranty...If you purchase as a package with the computer, than the warranty on the monitor will be the same as the warranty on the entire system, ie...You just want the 1 year warranty on the computer, than you only get 1 year on the monitor as well.  You pay for a three year warranty on the entire package you will receive 3 years as well for the monitor.

atelios · Answer

Thanks for the responses! So it takes 6 pixels. That's quite a lot. I wonder if anybody has statistics on how often you get bad pixels on these flat-screen monitors. And how long do these monitors last? Do the pixels die off one by one as the monitors age? Yuck! If that were true, I would have to hope that they were dying off at a fast enough pace that I would get 6 bad ones within the 3-year warranty period. One thing I can say about the CRT monitors is they seem to last a LONG time and you don't have to worry about individual pixels going bad.

SR45 · Answer

I can only report on two of my LCD's, one 15 inch, no dead pixels for over two years and one 17 inch ( 1703 FP ) for a little over a year now, no dead pixels...Hope this helps a little....However, you might be one of the unlucky ones...

atelios · Answer

Dear SR45 ,
Thank you! Yes, that does help a lot. I noticed in another post that you had an 1703FP, which is the one I was originally interested in. Can you tell me any more about how you like it? Do the colors for this (or your older flat panel) get worse as they age? One thing I have been noticing as I have been looking at specs for different monitors. Ok, the 1704FP says it has a MAX H-View Angle: ±89° and same for V-View Angle (this is from Dell website). When I first saw that I go, ok, that must be measured from a direct perpendicular to the screen. You can view all the way around to almost from the side. But then I noticed that the E173FP and others were saying things like 140° and I noticed on eBay figures like 178°. At first I thought these were mistakes, like how could you see the monitor at a 178° angle from perpendicular. That would mean you could see it from the back! But now I wonder if maybe ±89° is meant to imply what I initially thought, full visibility, when in actuality it means you have a full range of about 90°, which would mean after you got past 45° from perpendicular, you can no longer view the screen. This would make sense since the ONE thing that the 1703FP was not rated good on (in Consumer Reports) was wide viewing angle. But I'm not sure. ±89° with that "±" at the beginning sure seems like it means what I thought it means.

SR45 · Answer

I was very luck in having this 1703 FP monitor arrive without dead or stuck pixels. The colors for my middle age eyes are normal in my humble opinion and I have not seen any ghosting in the games that I have played, though my monitor has the 25 ms response time, unlike the 1704 FP with the 12 ms response time. Its a little over one year old and to be honest, many of use would not be able to tell if the colors begin to dim over time unless we have another new monitor next to use to see any difference, but the colors seem to be the just as bright as the day I got it. The viewing angle is very good, and can see the same or just about the same sharpness when I move my head from dead center to one or the other side, but not too far to each side which I would not do anyway. I still have no dead or stuck pixels, but my first one did and sent it back for another during the 21 day return policy. Dell made a mistake and sent me a refurbish monitor and that was a no no during the 21 day period and they made good and sent me another new one, which I have now, and still very, very happy with it. Hope this information helps a little...Good luck on the purchase.

Dim 4400 ( 2002 )
2.6 Ghz
Bios A06
768 MB DDR 2100
Windows XP Home
SP-2
1703 FP LCD monitor
PC-Cillin Internet Security

Message Edited by SR45 on 03-27-2005 05:34 PM

tima2483 · Answer

One thing I have been noticing as I have been looking at specs for different monitors. Ok, the 1704FP says it has a MAX H-View Angle: ±89° and same for V-View Angle (this is from Dell website). When I first saw that I go, ok, that must be measured from a direct perpendicular to the screen. You can view all the way around to almost from the side. But then I noticed that the E173FP and others were saying things like 140° and I noticed on eBay figures like 178°. At first I thought these were mistakes, like how could you see the monitor at a 178° angle from perpendicular. That would mean you could see it from the back! But now I wonder if maybe ±89° is meant to imply what I initially thought, full visibility, when in actuality it means you have a full range of about 90°, which would mean after you got past 45° from perpendicular, you can no longer view the screen. This would make sense since the ONE thing that the 1703FP was not rated good on (in Consumer Reports) was wide viewing angle. But I'm not sure. ±89° with that "±" at the beginning sure seems like it means what I thought it means.

Viewing angles greater than 90° should be divided in half. All LCD monitor measurements should be taken with a grain of salt. This page talks about them in great detail:

X-bit’s Guide: Contemporary LCD Monitor Parameters and Characteristics

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/print/lcd-guide.html

Note there are two models of 1704FP. This article shows the 1704FPT and 1704FPV side by side (you may have to scroll up to see the pics):

http://forums.rojakpot.com/showthread.php?p=195748#post195748

The 1704FPV is the one with the better viewing angles. (The author got them reversed in his sentence, "This first set of pics...") I just got a 1704FPV last week, and after trying a couple of monitors that use the more common TN panels, I'm very pleased with the Dell 1704FPV and its PVA panel. Sitting in front of the monitor in the optimal position, and even leaning back and viewing from a moderate angle, there is practically no color variation. The TN panels both exhibited a top 1/3 of the screen darker than the bottom 2/3, and sides that faded into yellow-brown even when viewing the monitor from directly in front. In other words, those monitors (Sony and NEC) had no sweet spot. The 1704FPV is excellent for desktop work. For gaming, it's not as good. There is significant ghosting in games like Half-Life 2 for certain color combinations. For example, movement of a dark-haired head against a somewhat lighter background leaves a dark trail. The ghosting doesn't affect everything, not by a long shot, but still, the 1704FPV made it clear to me what everybody means by "ghosting". Overall, as a software developer and "casual gamer", I'm happy with my 1704FPV. I consider the other monitors I tried completely unacceptable for ordinary desktop usage.

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