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July 8th, 2015 05:00

Preparing for excam: Questions about ISMV2

Hey there

right know I am studying for the ITSMv2 Excam and I am reading the book about it. On page 82 there is a chapter about traditional LUNs and thin LUNs.

Traditional thick LUNs are mapped to a traditional RAID Group and expanding those would be a MetaLUN. So far I've no issue with that BUT

beased on the book a Thin LUN resides in a Shared Pool. But from my experience with working on EMC VNX i can create a traditional tick LUN in the pool as well and expand it with capacity out of the pool. If i want to use Thin i can say this is a Thin LUN by klicking "Thin" and allocated 10 TB even if i am using only 2 TB. Am I right? Or am I wrong? Are all LUNs in a pool Thin LUNs even when "Thin" is not ticked? Can i change a LUN in a pool to thin and thick all the time? Are there two meanings of thin in EMC environments?

Thank you for clarification and greetings,

58 Posts

July 8th, 2015 11:00

You aren't wrong, it is just that there are 3 "official" LUN types.

Traditional LUNs as you state are built on a RAID group.  These are thick provisioned, but aren't "Thick LUNs".

Thick LUNs are pool LUNs which are not thin - don't have the thin property box checked at creation time.

Thin LUNs are pool LUNs which are thin - do have the thin property box checked at creation time.

I think you are just mixing up the property of being thick and thin with "Thick LUNs" and "Thin LUNs".  Traditional LUNs are thick, but they are not "Thick LUNs" because "Thick LUNs" are pool LUNs.

Confusing enough for you?   I usually distinguish with "Thick Pool LUN" if necessary but to each their own.

Your other question, can you change from thick to thin?  Yep, but not just by unchecking or checking the box after creation (you actually can't check/uncheck the box afterwards). Thick LUNs and Thin LUNs are different with how they are provisioned on the back end.  In order to convert, you would need to create a target LUN of the same size and desired type, and then do a LUN migration to it. 

208 Posts

July 20th, 2015 07:00

Dear Raid-Zero

Sorry for my delayed answer but i've been to holidays the last few days (yay)! Thank you very much for this detailed explanation which made me clear about the differences.

Well I have to further question which you may be able to answer:

1) When WWN zoning are we going to use the WWNN or the WWPN to zone? I always used the WWPN but in the book they are talking about to use the WWNN of the HBA which is in my opinion wrong (imagine a dual port HBA).

2) I wanted to implement a mixed pool  based on 20x 15K 300 Gbyte SAS disks and 10x 900 Gbyte SAS Disks and turn on FastVP but during creation it tells me that it is not possible to use same disk with different sizes and tiering will not be able until i add different disks. Well for me 10k and 15k disks are not the same but it seems it takes the interace (FC, SAS, NLSAS) as a reference about what is fast and what's not. Is it true that the rpm is not counted for this and it's only the type of interface? Is there a matrix to see what is NLSAS, SAS and FC?

2.1) Is Flash Disk considered as SAS or FC or something own?

Thank you so much and best regards,

Michael

58 Posts

July 20th, 2015 17:00

1. When zoning you always use WWPN, never the WWNN.  If ANY resource directs you to use WWNN it is either incorrect, or a typo/misprint.  Use WWPN for the reason you state - multiple ports can share WWNNs.

2. For FAST VP purposes the tiers are Extreme Performance (Flash and Flash VP drives), Performance (all SAS), and Capacity (all NLSAS).  Each tier should have a single type (speed and size) of drive in it.  Spindle speed and capacity aren't differentiators between SAS drives as they occupy the same tier on the VNX, hence you can't mix them in the same pool.  FC disks used to be in the Performance tier along with SAS but they haven't had FC drives for a while - since Clariion, though those systems are definitely still alive out there.  Now it is all SAS. 

2.1. Flash or EFD is its own thing in the Extreme Performance tier.  If you look in the disk list you'll see these sometimes listed as SAS Flash or SATA Flash or something else - these are all the same.  Just be aware that on VNX2 there are two kinds of flash drives - Flash and Flash VP.

- Flash, or regular EFD, are SLC drives and are intended for FAST cache, but can also be used in pools. 

- Flash VP, or EFD VP, are eMLC drives and are intended for pools - these may not be used for FAST cache. 

The drives can be mixed in pools, but may not be mixed in the same RAID group (so I can't have 3 EFD and 2 EFD VP drives in the same RAID 5 4+1) and won't hot spare for each other.  As a rule, I wouldn't recommend mixing them in the same pool (or generally use FAST Cache drives in pools) unless I had a really compelling reason for doing it. 

208 Posts

July 22nd, 2015 00:00

Hi Raid

I really appreciate your effort that is amazing it's great to learn stuff in that way. I hope I do not bother you with such silly questions.

Best regards

208 Posts

July 22nd, 2015 01:00

Further one =) LUN maskis is like zoning a security approach and I did it many times. But is LUN masking based on the WWN of the Hosts, the name or the FC channel address or even the mapped port?

Within the GUI i craete a storage group and add hosts and LUNs. What is it considering? Is there a way of saying access to everyone like zoning?

208 Posts

July 28th, 2015 00:00

Hi

Another maybe easy one =)) iSCSI ports on EMC Storage Systems are they dedicated iSCSI HBAs or usual NICs with Software iSCSI Initiator?

Thank you :-)

43 Posts

July 28th, 2015 03:00

Hi Duker,

LUN Masking is a process, which defines that which LUNs a host can access. This ensures that LUN access by host is controlled appropriately, preventing unauthorized or accidental use in a shared environment.

          For eg: Consider a storage array with two LUNs that store the data of the sales and finance departments. Without LUN masking, both departments can easily see and modify each others data, posing a high risk to data integrity and security. With LUN masking, LUNs are accessible only to the designated Hosts.

Please note that storage array is always iSCSI target. Host will be always iSCSI initiator. Host can use a normal NIC card with iSCSI initiator, a TOE (TCP Offload Engine) or a dedicated  iSCSI HBA. 

208 Posts

July 28th, 2015 03:00

Hi $ree

I do understand the idea behind LUN Masking but i am  intrested into how or what is taking into consideration to give access to hosts. Hostname, IP, WWN of the initators which are assigned to a host?

I assume that there is a ACL which contains system LUN IDs and the appropriate host initiators WWNs? Am I right?

Thank you anyway =)

43 Posts

July 28th, 2015 03:00

Hi Duker,

I hope you have already done LUN masking many times. Once we completed the zoning of host HBA with SPs, we will be able to see the host wwn under initiators/Connectivity status tab. While registering the initiators (WWN), we are specifying the host name and IP address. While doing the LUN masking, we will be assigning the LUN to this particular host. While registering the host itself we are using host name, IP and wwn.

208 Posts

July 29th, 2015 04:00

So the dedicated iSCSI Targets (EMC Modules) are HBAs, TOE or Software iSCSI? Or is there no such difference for target adapters?

Thank you

26 Posts

July 29th, 2015 06:00

The only difference between, traditional, Thin and thick Lun is

Traditional Luns are carved from raid group, However thin and thick are carved from storage pool.

43 Posts

July 29th, 2015 06:00

Hi Duker,

Normally in EMC storages, iSCSI ports (1GB and 10GB) will be coming with RJ-45 ports. 10GB/s FCoE ports will come with specific type of SFP module.

You can generate Hardware overview document for VNX arrays from EMC my document site (Select learn about VNX hardware option under about VNX). It will be having the diagrams as well. below is the link.

https://mydocuments.emc.com/index.jsp

26 Posts

July 29th, 2015 06:00

What is the meaning of RAID 5 (4+1)?

in R5 we need minimum 3 disk out of which one is parity,

can it be 5 for data and 2 for parity,

Please explain!!

43 Posts

July 29th, 2015 07:00

Hi Friends,

If I am putting comments, it is going for moderator approval. Any Idea why it is like that

674 Posts

July 29th, 2015 07:00

2 for parity is called RAID 6, f.e. 6+2 or 12+2

1 for parity is called RAID 5, f.e. 4+1, 8+1 ...

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