64 Bit O.S.

Question

In looking at what the cost of a new top quality P.C. can go for today, and keeping in mind how fast computer technology is moving, kind of makes it difficult to make some choices in deciding when and what to have in a new P.C.   One of the main things to consider I guess would be to future proof the new P.C. as much as one was able to.   With that in mind I'm wondering about a 64 Bit O.S. as in Vista. Right now I don't think there is a big need for it in a home based P.C. but what about 6 months from now?   If one needed a new P.C. today and was planning on pending a lot of Benjamin's on it, would going with a 64 Bit O.S. be a good idea or would it be a better choice to go with a 32 Bit system?   The good angel is telling me to hold off for a while and the devil is telling me to flip the switch and go for it. ??????   Application and driver issues at this time I would think would be an issue, but for how long??

iKlaatu · Answer

What you are asking could probably be summed up as 'Vista? Or not?'.   I'm editing out the following paragraph I wrote the first time because I'm so far off from what I thought was right or wrong about the EM64T used by Intel. Core Duo doesn't have it (Core 2 Duo does). And, besides, the mainboard and BIOS would need to be compatible to 64-bit as well. Sorry for any added confusion I might have caused anybody. I only read up on the subject intermittently and get confused myself.   {I think most (all?) processors being put into new computers are capable of running both 32 and 64 bit programs, so in considering anything for the 'future' you might as well include 64 bit regardless of the ongoing debate over whether that will ever become standard enough to matter. I just can't imagine everything staying the same forever, meaning the 64-bit operating system is inevitable.}   Maybe this will always be the way of things. I can remember how people thought of the plain ol' DOS (I started with 3.3) versus Windows. Once Windows was going strong there were people intent on staying with that first incarnation of Windows and not moving onward to 95 and/or 98. You know what I mean. Sometimes I wonder if Windows 2000 users have been one of the most unchanging groups of people, or just the more recent, by not getting XP.   Something I'm wondering about the install of a 64-bit Vista... and perhaps you might be interested in knowing, too...   What if you want to dual boot with either them. One partition or HDD with a 32-bit Vista Home Premium and another with 64-bit Vista Home Premium? Would that count as two completely different installs from a licensing standpoint? In other words, once you buy or have a specific Vista on the computer will a second copy of the same thing-- aside from bits-- be considered identical?   Funny now that I think about it, I've never attempted to install two XP's on a single computer. In fact, I've never been a dual boot person (although I think I might have tried it once long ago with Win98SE and ME).   All the info I've read about the multiple versions being on a DVD (or two?) had only said you could purchase the keys to a different version if you wanted to make a change, but I don't think I ever read anything about the bits differences in each being considered a whole different OS.   My plan has been to buy with VHP already installed, expecting only 32-bit to be available for configuration at DELL, and then install the 64-bit without paying for a second OS. Anyone know how such things will be done? I would actually dual boot between those if I can, but it would be ridiculous to need to buy two of the same thing.   Message Edited by iKlaatu on 12-01-200602:11 AM

labil · Answer

I am a little lost in this.What is the difference between the 32bit
vista and the 64 bit?Is one better than the other?I am planning to upgrade to vista when it become available,and I am wondering if the 32 bit is for system with core duo,and the 64bit for system with core2 duo processor?

Inspiron e1505
Intel® Core™ Duo T2400(1.83GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 667MHz FSB)
1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
15.4 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen SXGA+ Display with TrueLife™
256MB ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON® X1400 HyperMemory™
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R
Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™ HD Software Edition
Genuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005
80BG HD 7200rpm.

iKlaatu · Answer

If you're asking whether DELL will put the relevant type on certain computers, I wish I knew this answer.   I've seen no mention of plans for the x64 Vista to be specifically installed versus the normal(?) 32-bit versions. It doesn't seem to have any consideration by DELL (yet?), which makes me wonder if it will ever be an option. Would be strange if the whole x64 thing for this new OS gets swept under the rug and everyone wanting it must install it themselves and deal with the driver issues. I can't believe that, although where are the advertizements proclaiming a move into the future with x64 systems (other than servers)?   I just expected it to be one of the main changes brought about by the existence of Vista. Of course, there aren't any consumer systems being sold with Vista on them so maybe it will happen when they are.

BrickYard · Answer

You need to start your own thread.....

BrickYard · Answer

iKlaatu    64 bit is offered in Vista now, and I do know of some folks that run 64 bit but with some issues.  The big deal is drivers for the hardware and or peripherals and drivers for the software (programs).  It's just not the P.C. but everything else connected to it that will need to be upgraded if not replaced that concerns me.   I'm trying figure when 64 bit will become pretty much main stream as far as home P.C.'s are concerned. I need to put together another P.C. and want to future proof it as much as I can, but would consider waiting a little while.   Once Vista is released retail in January (cough), I would expect things to start moving much faster to gear up to it which 64 bit computing will probably be a bigger part of especially with quad core CPU's and even larger becoming available. This time next year Intel has some additionally big things to release and the saga goes on and on.   In reality I guess if one waits for the next best thing, one will never get to have anything, P.C. wise that is..  Probably if one was to buy a P.C. today, technically it is already outdated since things are already on the drawing board to be coming out.   In thinking about all this It probably would be better to wait until Vista settles (hot fixes and service packs ) out and things gear up to it and then some before I spend a whole lot of lettuce on a P.C. that will have issues and limitations.

iKlaatu · Answer

One of those great mysteries... Is x64 ever going to be a standard for the home PC...? I wish there were a definite answer.   Seems there's a divide going on, instead of a switch to something totally different. When the 'new' Windows was first being talked about I was sure it would be completely x64. I looked forward to the change. And now, it's more like the project was scrubbed and remains more x86 than anything else, with x64 being a secondary consideration. This is simply odd to me. Why the lack of momentum to move onward?   Until I see proof that the x64 Vista will be preinstalled on new computers (those with the compatible hardware/software?), I won't be able to sleep easy, always thinking I'll need to go it alone with my own installation (plus the extra cost for a parallel install of Vista??).   But then, I kinda planned for this all along, too. I would like to be backward compatible to keep old software running and so I was going to dual boot to each proper Vista (with the idea of no added cost for both bit types of same version). It's just that more and more it looks like it's all going the other way, by having only the x86 preinstalled that means getting x64 going could be a little problematic.   I only want to run one specific program in the x64 environment, so for me it isn't about everything being x64-friendly.   I realize everyone here is installing whatever Vista beta they have but this is no reflection on what DELL is planning. That's why I worry about the possibility of x64 Vista being left in limbo by DELL.   Your concern is similar, but you seem to count on DELL to provide this. If you are only asking if x64 is going to be the target system to aim for then I say yes, because all else remains stuck in yesteryear. But my opinion at the moment is that most people will need both kinds of systems to actually get through the next year or more. This is where the real confusion is going to be for everyone.   And I think I'm being optimistic here, not pessimistic, which isn't a good thing far as the change to x64 goes.   I really want to hear more about this (x64 used on DELL computers) from others at the DELL forums, that's why I keep looking for any mention of the 64-bit stuff where Vista is involved.   Message Edited by iKlaatu on 12-01-200606:23 AM

HayMoose · Answer

I believe Microsoft has formally announced that Vista will be the last x86 OS.  The PC hardware industry is now competing for the fastest x64 chip, I am running XP 64bit Edition and it is great.  I have all of the drivers for all the hardware in my HP DV8210 with AMD Turion 64 CPU (for budsiness use) and every app I ave installed whether 32-bit or 64 bit runs flawlessly with the exception of some games.  The dig is in the installer, no 16-bit installer will install on a 64 bit system (curently.)  Google Desktop Serch did not work right last time I tried to install it but the Windows Desltop Search (x64) client works great.   I am runnuing NOD32 64bit AV WMP11 runs great iTunes, there is a GEAR update for enabling the burning feature All of my 32 bit apps run fine Every device has a good driver including the 6-in-1 media reader   My Dell E521 has been running XP 64 bit since the day it was signed for it is for home use.  It runs great as well.  There is even a 64 bit update for Half Life 2, it runs great.  None of the Lucas Arts games install on x64 though.  I wonder if there will be a patch for Vistaa to allow them to load.  I am also running MS Virtual PC 2007 Beta which allows me to run the OEM OS from dELL which is XP x86 MCE 2005.  If there is sometihng I need from the OEM OS, I just load it into the virtual PC and sniff about (The OEM.inf & OEM.bmp files for example.)  I also have Vista RC1 loaded into VPC for tinkering.   My suggestion is to buy the 64 bit system, I prefer AMD.  The price is right and you will allow a good deal of 'headroom' in your current technology environment for the future.   Good luck,

labil · Answer

So haymoose ,if I understand I need a 64bit cpu to be able to run vista 64bit.I got an e1505 with intel core duo,I might start looking for an upgrade to a core2duo.

HayMoose · Answer

That is correct.  I am understanding the code for both 32 & 64 Bit Vista's will be oin the same DVD but you do need the hardware to support the 64 bit processing.  This machine also has 2GB of Ram and a GeForce 7600GT 256 GDDR3 (whatever that means) video card.  The next generation of (DirectX 10) hardware supported cards is slow and coming and as you can imaging, costly.  I for one, will be waiting a year for those babies to come down in price.   Good luck and I hope you enjoy your segway into 64 bit computing.  Do not be discouraged by the lack of drivers out in the real world, Dell is one of the best OEMs out there regarding early 64 bit support for their new hardware, IMO.  HP is keeping it all quite hush-hush.  I have an HP notebook with x64 and to this date they arenot as ahead on support for thier 'Vista capable' devices.   Thanks,

mweddle26 · Answer

I have a new e1405. My specs are:
Inspiron E1405, Intel Core 2 Duo Processor 7200 (4MB/2.00GHz/667MH
14.1 Inch Wide-screen WXGA Display for Inspiron 640M/E1405
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM 533MHZ,2 DIMM for Inspiron 640M/E1405
Intel Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator 950 GM, for Inspiron 640M/E1405
80GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive for Inspiron 640M/E1405

Is this 64 bit capable. Could I run 64 bit vista on this system. Would there be any advantages over 32 bit? I am an engineering student, if that helps to determine my future needs.

fixmyhead · Answer

@HayMoose wrote:

I believe Microsoft has formally announced that Vista will be the last x86 OS.

x86 is used as a generic term to describe the uP architecture that Intel originated, and that both AMD and Intel currently produce for what is called the "PC" market. I think you're looking to say either i386 or x86-32, which refers to the 32-bit architecture that started with the Intel 386.

@HayMoose wrote:

My suggestion is to buy the 64 bit system, I prefer AMD. The price is right and you will allow a good deal of "headroom" in your current technology environment for the future.

The last 6, maybe 8 years I would agree with you, AMD had the price/performance edge. I only purchased AMD processors for use in my boxes the past several years, not just to "stick it to the man", but because testing showed equivalent or better performance for less money.

Current benchmarks of the Core 2 Duo vs AMD's x64 show this to no longer be true. Even AMD's switch to 65nm, which was going to reduce power while keeping performance, has only allowed it to break even with Intel in power. Performance overall lags behind Intel in a rather unequivocal fasion.

For the interested reader, look at:
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2889&p=8
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/22/amd_dual_core_laptops_have_arrived/
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/08/can-amds-65-nm-core-fight-back/

Until AMD makes some significant changes, I would recommend Intel.

Windows General

64 Bit O.S.

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